The Batman (June 25, 2021)

[ironwez20]

Small rant.

superhero hype forum sucks. Weirdo mods there who take there job way to serious.

Anyway had to get that off my chest.

also I’d like to pint out how we barely saw Bruce Wayne with eye make up in the film . Probably like one or two scenes .

 

[ironwez20]

I hope so. Never been a fan of the overly ripped up depictions of the character.

perhaps he has surgery to ‘correct’ himself. 89 style.

Same. I think it’s a bit much. The hair and all that. Two face will probably look absolutely grotesque. This is why I want to see characters like man bat and clay face .
Also I don’t think he is like Heath as people say. He doesn’t sound like him but he does kinda resemble him just a bit.
The movies always seem to like to scar joker up so he’s deformed.

i think the worst of this was probably leto joker. As he resembled a cringe mumble rapper. Can’t get scarier then that.

 

[greygoose]

I wonder what kind of costume he's going to wear. If I had to guess, he'll wear something similar to the Joker from the 2008 book, JOKER. They even have a similar look and smile. I hope they use Joker as a main villain eventually.

I'm all in on wanting to see this version of the Joker as the main villain in TB2. The direction in the cut scene is fantastic. Imagine what Reeves can do with the Batman/Joker dynamic across a 3 hour film.

 

[ZE_501]

Yeah, one thing I noticed about this Batman is he's not stealthy, more on intimidation like before he shows up for the first time in this movie to beat up the clowns. His foot steps remind me of... Robocop (the 80's one.)

It really works to great effect in the film, but it took getting used to the first time. I've always thought of Batman as silent but now he's a T-rex.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Yeah, one thing I noticed about this Batman is he's not stealthy, more on intimidation like before he shows up for the first time in this movie to beat up the clowns. His foot steps remind me of... Robocop (the 80's one.) Even his Batmobile made some scary noises when it revved up on its first appearance.

robocop was what came to my mind also.

 

[jye4ever]

Eternals Joker > Grill Mouth Joker

 

[jye4ever]

Batman picks anniversary to go see Joker and fans think it’s about finding the Riddler….

 

[ZE_501]

Batman picks anniversary to go see Joker and fans think it’s about finding the Riddler….

View attachment 568811

There is one out for Batpsycho: the Riddler is systematically murdering people, so it was a time-sensitive issue and the anniversary was just an unfortunate coincidence...but when all's said and done the scene was too much and it's a good thing they cut it.

I've also wondered if they won't change or refine his look for the reveal, although in the end credits scene he still looked pretty scarred up.

 

[greygoose]

I've also wondered if they won't change or refine his look for the reveal, although in the end credits scene he still looked pretty scarred up.

They might change it slightly but I can't see them deviating too much. We've not seen his Joker outfit yet so they've still got a blank canvas to work with in that regard.

 

[Victοr]

Batman picks anniversary to go see Joker and fans think it’s about finding the Riddler….

View attachment 568811

Homoeroticism works only if both leads are attractive (all romance works best with attractive people, let's be honest; I'm consuming fiction to see some beauty). Batman x Joker has been a thing for ages, but I don't see how it can be pulled off here. Does anyone want to see the Hannibal/Will dynamic where Pattinson stands nearly a foot over Keoghan, with the latter suffering heavy chemical scars?

And I can't see that Joker ever being the Lecter to Harley's Clarice, either...

For me, Joker should be classy and handsome, so from the get-go I'm disappointed with this. Such a grotesque direction doesn't fit the character I believe. I'm hoping it being a deleted scene they rework him. I'm not opposed to the idea, but I wanted a bleached white, classy, elegant clown being on contrast with the rest of the Grunge Gotham...

 

[jye4ever]

First time in the new forum using a PC forgot how vertically obnoxious my sig was lol

 

[ZE_501]

Homoeroticism works only if both leads are attractive (all romance works best with attractive people, let's be honest; I'm consuming fiction to see some beauty).

That's your bias towards 'elite humans' and pretty anime boys showing through. It "works only if" for you. The narrative possibilities of a purring, preening monstrosity locked on a psychologically complex/damaged hero are manifold. You're free to have your preferred parameters for escapist fiction but that's otherwise too broad a statement.

For me, Joker should be classy and handsome,

What's handsome about a guy in clown make-up wearing a permanent rictus? My very first reaction to seeing this version of Joker was "too much, overdone" but sometimes you just have to let someone run with their vision. So far I don't agree with everything Reeves has done but overall I trust him, and respect his vision.

Which is not to say your vision of an elegant murderer is inherently incorrect, but on the face of it (ha ha) I don't see a problem painting a monster as a monster.

 

[Asta]

Looks they combined Ledger's Joker and Valeska from Gotham and this is was the result...

The Ledger/Gotham inspiration immediately came to mind.

It also reminded of Calendar Man in the Arkham City game.




I loved that game. Some great atmosphere, and creepy, lonely places to explore whenever you're tired of beating the seven shades out of hordes of gangsters!

 

[R_R_X]

The Ledger/Gotham inspiration immediately came to mind.

It also reminded of Calendar Man in the Arkham City game.




I loved that game. Some great atmosphere, and creepy, lonely places to explore whenever you're tired of beating the seven shades out of hordes of gangsters!

Calendar Man didn't even cross my mind but now I totally see it!
I honestly hope they redesign Joker for the inevitable sequel, the monstrous look is too much for me, something closer to Valeska but with more hair would be a good trade off and still keep the "fell in a vat of chemicals" look.

 

[Otomofan]

It's interesting that the subtle love/hate relationship with Batman and Joker was essentially invented out of whole cloth by Frank Miller. Prior to Dark Knight Returns, there was never any of that "you complete me" stuff.

Of course, Alan Moore and Grant Morrison took it and ran with it to a whole other level.

I actually like the dynamic. I think it really came through in Nolan's TDK. Maybe not so much on a homoerotic level, but a symbiotic relationship.

It's hard to think back to a time when Joker was just one of many of Batman's wacky assortment of rogues, and not his twisted mirror image soulmate. That got pushed reallllly hard in the 80s and I don't think it's ever going away. They are more of a "couple" than Batman and Catwoman.

It's funny though, The Animated Series treated him like Gotham's top villain, but it didn't place as much weight on their relationship. He was for the most part just another one of the "goons of the week." Maybe that's why I really didn't care for the Joker episodes when I rewatched the entire series recently.

 

[Khev]

I watched the scene a second time ready for Joker to come across as too extreme and "try hard" as some people were saying and nope he still didn't feel overdone to me. He actually kind of reminded me of "Mouse" from the first Matrix film, lol.

People said that Ledger truly enjoyed what he did but I thought this Joker came across as being smart but still both highly amused and fascinated by Batman himself. I won't go so far as to say that he is equal or better to Ledger based on that one clip but I think he can hold his own and fits awesomely within the Reeves universe.

 

[Asta]

Calendar Man didn't even cross my mind but now I totally see it!
I honestly hope they redesign Joker for the inevitable sequel, the monstrous look is too much for me, something closer to Valeska but with more hair would be a good trade off and still keep the "fell in a vat of chemicals" look.

The reveal of the 'real' Joker in Gotham, which was long anticipated, ended up being pretty anticlimactic, due to his extreme appearance.

Back when the Joker was an iteration of Conrad Veidt's The Man Who Laughs, it was enough that his deformation was the contorted smile that gave him the permanent embodiment of a clown.

The Ledger disfigurement was an acceptable, real world progression. But I think it was in the comics that the disfigurement became more and more shocking, until he cut his own face off (as with the proto Joker in Gotham).

The Joker is already a sociopathic monster, so doesn't need to wear a monstrous 'mask' to overstate it.

I still think of Cesar Romero as being the most effective expression, but that may be because I still have this scene burned into my brain since I was maybe five years old:

It's one of the few early memories that have remained so clear. I remember sitting on the floor in front of the TV in the living room, and being both transfixed and terrified!

 

[R_R_X]

The reveal of the 'real' Joker in Gotham, which was long anticipated, ended up being pretty anticlimactic, due to his extreme appearance.

Back when the Joker was an iteration of Conrad Veidt's The Man Who Laughs, it was enough that his deformation was the contorted smile that gave him the permanent embodiment of a clown.

The Ledger disfigurement was an acceptable, real world progression. But I think it was in the comics that the disfigurement became more and more shocking, until he cut his own face off (as with the proto Joker in Gotham).

The Joker is already a sociopathic monster, so doesn't need to wear a monstrous 'mask' to overstate it.

I still think of Cesar Romero as being the most effective expression, but that may be because I still have this scene burned into my brain since I was maybe five years old:

View attachment 568825

It's one of the few early memories that have remained so clear. I remember sitting on the floor in front of the TV in the living room, and being both transfixed and terrified!

Completely agree with everything you said, I feel people are trying to over compensate with disfigurement and what not when the Joker doesn't need it, Romero and Phoenix prove you can be extremely unsetlling with just some clown makeup, I am partial to Ledge's scars tho, the glasgow grin was a very grounded and acceptable redesign, it kept the comic trait of him always smiling and didn't try too hard like the latest versions of the character.

 

[Victοr]

That's your bias towards 'elite humans' and pretty anime boys showing through. It "works only if" for you. The narrative possibilities of a purring, preening monstrosity locked on a psychologically complex/damaged hero are manifold. You're free to have your preferred parameters for escapist fiction but that's otherwise too broad a statement.

Well, you're forgetting one thing. I'm a Patrician with Superior taste, and the rest of you lot are Plebs. If it doesn't conform to my personal liking, then of what worth is it, really?

Jesting aside, I'm definitely guilty of having a bit of a preference, but it's mostly restrained in specific genres. I don't judge an everyday drama the same way I judge a genre film. But from these "big" movies, I expect "beauty" across the board. Beauty can be dark too, but still, it's beauty. Manlet Balding Cancer Patient trying to pull an erotic "it's our anniversary" vibe doesn't work for me. For some other Bat-Rogue, sure. But for the Joker? Not really.

What's handsome about a guy in clown make-up wearing a permanent rictus? My very first reaction to seeing this version of Joker was "too much, overdone" but sometimes you just have to let someone run with their vision. So far I don't agree with everything Reeves has done but overall I trust him, and respect his vision.

Which is not to say your vision of an elegant murderer is inherently incorrect, but on the face of it (ha ha) I don't see a problem painting a monster as a monster.

The way he's drawn. Same way Doom went from a literal burn victim to a demigod with a slight scar, the Phantom went from a grotesque blob of flesh to Gerald Butler with some scarring around his eye, and so on. For some the dichotomy between a handsome person and the horrific acts they commit works. Others find it gimmicky. Me, I always thought the Joker worked best as a classy, flamboyant type. He's a showman at heart, a performer. Turning him into a monster in and out just deprives him of an extra layer IMHO. It's like that Batman/Spider-Man crossover where the Joekr chastizes Carnage for being just a mindless gorehound. Rip the performance and beauty out of the Joker, and you've got something a whole lot more generic. Me, I want Bowie Joker.

It's just a deleted scene so I'm not coming to any conclusions. But I'd rather even the monsters be beautiful in my genre-films. It's a personal preference at the end of the day.

 

[Otomofan]

I'll never forget seeing that first reveal of Ledger as Joker.

There were soooo many naysayers when he was cast, but I'd always liked him a lot. (So help me god, I really liked Knight's Tale...so sue me!) And I thought he was utterly brilliant and heartbreaking in Brokeback Mountain and Monster's Ball. I knew he had the chops to play the Joker.

And then one day we got THIS image.....

and I was hooked. He was such a tremendous talent. Still so tragic that he died so young.