The Dark Knight Rises - 1/6th scale Batman Armory with Bruce Wayne Collectible Set

[haytil]

Doesn't really matter how many comics you or I have read. What matters is the quality of the argument, and to say that "Nolan doesn’t understand the core of Bruce/Batman" after quoting a bunch of stuff that happened in TDKR - and that also happened in the comics - is a poor argument. Take your ego out of the argument.

 

[Akiratang]

I've got this on PO and really hoping it's on track and scheduled for this year

 

[playboy409]

Doesn't really matter how many comics you or I have read. What matters is the quality of the argument, and to say that "Nolan doesn’t understand the core of Bruce/Batman" after quoting a bunch of stuff that happened in TDKR - and that also happened in the comics - is a poor argument. Take your ego out of the argument.

Got nothing to do with my ego and everything to do with actual comic lore. You’re using Knightfall as an example of Bruce retiring. He broke his spine and was forced into retirement. And when he was healed, he took time to get his head into the right space and then came back and fought Azrael for the cowl, it took maybe a year. He did’t retire to live a happy life for good. Can you name one other time where Bruce willingly retired while still able to be Batman in the main continuity of the Batman? Not in multiverse? Cause I can’t think of one.

 

[DiFabio]

Compared to the comics and other movies, Nolan Bruce is a boy.

Good thing they didn’t call Batman Begins, Year One, because that’s all Nolan Wayne has in him.

 

[Luisenigma1]

Can't believe I'm almost done paying this off at SS. If the cowled sculpt looks good I might sell the DX19 but it will depend on if this comes with gadgets.

 

[playboy409]

@haytil, you posted in the wrong thread. We can continue here. It’s not about my ego. I only care about the movie portraying Batman if it’s accurate to the comic lore. I only posted my books cause you said I didn’t read enough comics, trying to discredit my thought process, which my pic is showing I’ve read plenty of the comic.

Regarding Knightfall, I said Bruce took maybe a year to get his head space right to come back. He did think about retirement since he had a career ending injury and a proper replacement. But he came back still. He could have tasked Dick or Tim or asked his super friends to take care of Jean Paul, but he chose to come back. And has he retired willingly ever since? Can you name one other time he retired to live a happy life with a loved one and ride off into the sunset?

In Rises, he faked his own death to live a normal life with Selina, giving the mantle of Batman to Blake, who he doesn’t even know that well. And he left it to him without any proper training. That does sound like something comic Bruce would do? Bruce taught Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian almost everything he knows. Even when he gave the mantle to Jean Paul, it’s cause Jean Paul was already Azrael and could handle himself. Hell, even Nolan Bruce took years to travel around the world and trained for years before becoming Batman. Now he’s just gonna hand it off to Blake and expect him to just become Batman? You tell me if that sounds like something comic Bruce would do.

 

[Scout Trooper]

Does anyone have the old armory, and buying this new one?

That was the plan but I lost interest a long time ago. Might grab Inart's eventually, or just be content with the older armory figure. This suit just isn't my favorite.

Curious to see the final figure.

 

[haytil]

Apologies for posting in the wrong thread, I got confused with my tabs and the multi-quote function. I wiped the post in the other thread, here's a copy-paste of that post:

Got nothing to do with my ego

Hmmm. You sure about that?

So for you to say I didn’t read enough Batman comics is almost insulting.

Sure looks to me like you wrapped up your ego in being right or wrong.

What you should have done is gone back to the text, in search of something to back you up - with enough humility to consider the possibility that you're wrong, when the text ends up supporting my statement, without emotionally investing in having been right or (proven) wrong.

Instead, you responded with ego and a picture of a bunch of books, and implied that my self-evident statement was "insulting."

You’re using Knightfall as an example of Bruce retiring. He broke his spine and was forced into retirement.

I was pretty clear in my statement that I was talking about after his recovery, not his forced retirement due to the broken spine. Go back and reread it, I haven't edited it.

Anyway, here's the text, supporting my statement:

Bruce: "I'm having second thoughts, Tim. About my...retirement.
...
Well, maybe I've put in enough years. I know I made the decision to hand things over to Paul in an emergency situation...But it's turning out to be for the best. You and he have things in hand. You've dealt with every threat to Gotham that's come up these past months.
...
I've never spent much time just being Bruce Wayne. It's not too late to try to have a life. This could be a second chance for me. I'm going to take a shot at it. Join the human race.

-Robin #7, pages 3-4

That's it, he's done. He's not even thinking about it, he's pretty much announcing it and making his position clear. I'm going to take a shot at it.

Of course, it turns out that Jean-Paul is a whack-job, so when Tim explains this to him, Bruce realizes he can't leave the city in Jean-Paul's hands and has to take over again.

But if Jean-Paul wasn't a whack-job? It's made very clear that Bruce was setting aside the cape - and the war on crime - for good. He was retiring to try and have a normal life.

The text couldn't be any more explicitly contrary to your statement that "Bruce would never ever retire to live a happy life if he is still capable of fighting."

 

[haytil]

Regarding Knightfall, I said Bruce took maybe a year to get his head space right to come back. He did think about retirement since he had a career ending injury and a proper replacement. But he came back still.

Yes, he came back still. Because he learned he didn't actually have a proper replacement.

It's pretty clear that if comic Bruce had left emotionally-stable John Blake in charge - instead of whack-job Jean-Paul Valley - then he wouldn't have come back, because he wouldn't have felt the need to.

You also mentioned "career ending injury." Setting aside the spine injury, in the movie it's clear that age has taken its toll on Bruce (no more cartilage in the knees), a factor which never has an impact on the forever-young comic-book Bruce Wayne.

In Rises, he faked his own death to live a normal life with Selina, giving the mantle of Batman to Blake, who he doesn’t even know that well.

Which mirrors exactly what he did with Jean-Paul Valley.

And he left it to him without any proper training. That does sound like something comic Bruce would do?

Jean-Paul Valley had weeks of training, at best. (To say nothing of the fact that "The System" of the Order of St. Dumas made him an emotionally dubious choice in the first place).

Bruce taught Dick, Jason, Tim, Damian almost everything he knows.

None of whom he put in charge. Comic Bruce picked relative-unknown "Jean-Paul Valley," just as Nolan Bruce picked relative-unknown "John Blake."

At least Blake's resume had the benefit of being cop.

What was Jean-Paul Valley, again? Oh right, a comp-sci grad student who had been brainwashed by a religious order of assassins.

Feels like between the two "unknowns," Nolan Bruce made a better pick than Comic Bruce.

Now he’s just gonna hand it off to Blake and expect him to just become Batman? You tell me if that sounds like something comic Bruce would do.

My entire point is that this is exactly what comic Bruce did do - in the "Knightfall" storyline which is obviously the strongest direct inspiration for the plot of "The Dark Knight Rises" (with a mixture of "Dark Knight Returns" and a dash of "The Cult / No Man's Land").

 

[i_amjam]

So, it’s been a year. Are they ever going to show the masked head or they just going to wait until it’s released.

View attachment 698941

At this point we are all gonna find out how it looks with blogger release photos

 

[playboy409]

Yes, he came back still. Because he learned he didn't actually have a proper replacement.

It's pretty clear that if comic Bruce had left emotionally-stable John Blake in charge - instead of whack-job Jean-Paul Valley - then he wouldn't have come back, because he wouldn't have felt the need to.

You also mentioned "career ending injury." Setting aside the spine injury, in the movie it's clear that age has taken its toll on Bruce (no more cartilage in the knees), a factor which never has an impact on the forever-young comic-book Bruce Wayne.



Which mirrors exactly what he did with Jean-Paul Valley.



Jean-Paul Valley had weeks of training, at best. (To say nothing of the fact that "The System" of the Order of St. Dumas made him an emotionally dubious choice in the first place).



None of whom he put in charge. Comic Bruce picked relative-unknown "Jean-Paul Valley," just as Nolan Bruce picked relative-unknown "John Blake."

At least Blake's resume had the benefit of being cop.

What was Jean-Paul Valley, again? Oh right, a comp-sci grad student who had been brainwashed by a religious order of assassins.

Feels like between the two "unknowns," Nolan Bruce made a better pick than Comic Bruce.



My entire point is that this is exactly what comic Bruce did do - in the "Knightfall" storyline which is obviously the strongest direct inspiration for the plot of "The Dark Knight Rises" (with a mixture of "Dark Knight Returns" and a dash of "The Cult / No Man's Land").

You skipped over the part that Jean Paul’s father was also Azrael and Jean Paul himself was trained and was working as Azrael, fought with and against Batman, before Bruce gave him the mantle way after. He proved his capability as a fighter that doesn’t need any look after. Blake? Police academy isn’t preparing him to fight against dozens of bad guys without the use of his guns and to jump across roof tops while wearing a bat suit.

As far as Nolan Bruce getting old and injured, I’ll give that to you, but it still showed in the movie he put on a “magic” knee brace and all of a sudden he could kick through brick walls again, so he could probably wear a more advanced suit to keep fighting, something that comic Bruce would have continued to do.

 

[haytil]

He proved his capability as a fighter that doesn’t need any look after.

But this does nothing to prove his capability as a man of good judgement and moral character, which is arguably far more important to being a Batman. The fact that Jean-Paul Valley lacked this is exactly why he was such a disaster as Batman.

Blake? Police academy isn’t preparing him to fight against dozens of bad guys without the use of his guns and to jump across roof tops while wearing a bat suit.

Well, my intention in mentioning Blake's status as a police officer was more to point out that it gives Bruce a reason to trust his character, in contrast to Jean-Paul Valley's background - Blake is someone who's willing to try and give back, to serve and protect, to work for justice, despite the fact that he comes from a deprived background of few means.

But even if you want to think about "training" - Nolan's Batman doesn't need to be someone who "fights dozens of bad guys." There are precious few "supervillains" in Nolan's more grounded world. Nolan's Batman is more just trying to serve as a symbol to the people of Gotham, to lead and inspire them to fight for their own city, against corruption and organized crime. Nolan's Batman has always been an agent that works outside the law, to enable the law to be more effective - not someone who single-handedly shoulders the burden of protecting Gotham City. There's a reason his first night out, before even putting on a full Bat-suit, was to contact Gordon.

Anyway, I feel you're moving the goalposts, so let me circle back to the original statement: You made the claim that "Bruce would never ever retire to live a happy life if he is still capable of fighting" and that "That alone right there showed Nolan doesn’t understand the core of Bruce/Batman."

I think I've amply demonstrated - right down to the issue, page number, and quoted text - that your statement was wrong. Bruce very much was ready and willing to retire to live a happy life, even though he was still capable of fighting. So it seems to me that Nolan does very much understand the core of Bruce/Batman, and accurately adapted that to the screen.

 

[playboy409]

But this does nothing to prove his capability as a man of good judgement and moral character, which is arguably far more important to being a Batman. The fact that Jean-Paul Valley lacked this is exactly why he was such a disaster as Batman.



Well, my intention in mentioning Blake's status as a police officer was more to point out that it gives Bruce a reason to trust his character, in contrast to Jean-Paul Valley's background - Blake is someone who's willing to try and give back, to serve and protect, to work for justice, despite the fact that he comes from a deprived background of few means.

But even if you want to think about "training" - Nolan's Batman doesn't need to be someone who "fights dozens of bad guys." There are precious few "supervillains" in Nolan's more grounded world. Nolan's Batman is more just trying to serve as a symbol to the people of Gotham, to lead and inspire them to fight for their own city, against corruption and organized crime. Nolan's Batman has always been an agent that works outside the law, to enable the law to be more effective - not someone who single-handedly shoulders the burden of protecting Gotham City. There's a reason his first night out, before even putting on a full Bat-suit, was to contact Gordon.

Anyway, I feel you're moving the goalposts, so let me circle back to the original statement: You made the claim that "Bruce would never ever retire to live a happy life if he is still capable of fighting" and that "That alone right there showed Nolan doesn’t understand the core of Bruce/Batman."

I think I've amply demonstrated - right down to the issue, page number, and quoted text - that your statement was wrong. Bruce very much was ready and willing to retire to live a happy life, even though he was still capable of fighting. So it seems to me that Nolan does very much understand the core of Bruce/Batman, and accurately adapted that to the screen.

Like I said, Bruce had a career ending, life altering injury, so he had doubts about continuing as Batman and thought about retirement. But the end result is, he didn’t retire and came back, reclaimed the mantle, and never retired again. I think at this point, we can agree to disagree. You’ve read your share of Batman books, I’ve read my share, we’re not convincing each other with our views.