Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[GasparZizou]

Eh, most Marvel books don't really have quips. Daredevil is back to its noir roots. Moon Knight is inside a mental asylum. Nighthawk will be taking on racism in America. Punisher will be going after the Cartel. Hawkeye deals with child neglect. Old Man Logan is dealing with the classic "if you could go back in time and kill Hitler, would you do it" only this time, this Logan is deranged and is going after the wrong people. But he's so haunted by it, that he doesn't know what he's doing. If you look for such books, you'll find them. If you're looking for philosophical debates, nothing beats Ultimates as far as the Big 2 go. IMO always.

What? Moon knight is out? You told me April man!

Punisher after the Cartel? I'm in!

I have to ask you, was the last secret wars drawn by Esad Ribic good? I want to read it because of the art alone but I'm not sure.

I did read the rest of your posts but I don't have anything to add to that, always nice to chat with you m8 :

 

[GasparZizou]

Good! 2-4 will be an awesome pallette cleanser if you end up hating BvS. Something tells me you're going to enjoy yourself though.

I'm sure if the movie sucks, but it hits the right spots for me I can end up loving it despite knowing it's bad, like the Phantom Menace.

 

[Victοr]

What? Moon knight is out? You told me April man!

Punisher after the Cartel? I'm in!

I have to ask you, was the last secret wars drawn by Esad Ribic good? I want to read it because of the art alone but I'm not sure.

I did read the rest of your posts but I don't have anything to add to that, always nice to chat with you m8 :

Sorry, it's out in April, but it's close enough that I have it marked as "present". Sorry for any confusion.

Well, as a major Doctor Doom and Hickman fan, it's brilliant. If you've read his Marvel saga (SHIELD, F4, FF, Ultimates, Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Hawkeye, New Avengers and Avengers) it's one of the most rewarding events ever. The nods, the seeds that've grown into trees, it's all brilliant. I'm not a big Omnibus guy, but if it's ever released I'm getting it, for sure! The writting is brilliant, the stakes are high and the message at the end is greatly uplifitng. Which is a contrast to the gloominess that lead to it.

Now, as a standalone piece of comicdom? Yeah, I'd say so. You'll be lost on some things and maybe you'll not be emotionally invested, considering you're not a big Marvel guy, but the story is good enough, the scale is epic and the art is brilliant. I think you'll enjoy it, but I wouldn't buy any of the tie-ins. Just the main 9 issues are enough. If you want, check up the Marvel Wikia to look up some plot points to get a general idea of the whole thing leading up to it.

Likewise!

 

[GasparZizou]

Now, as a standalone piece of comicdom? Yeah, I'd say so. You'll be lost on some things and maybe you'll not be emotionally invested, considering you're not a big Marvel guy, but the story is good enough, the scale is epic and the art is brilliant. I think you'll enjoy it, but I wouldn't buy any of the tie-ins. Just the main 9 issues are enough. If you want, check up the Marvel Wikia to look up some plot points to get a general idea of the whole thing leading up to it.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking, cause I'm probably not gonna have a clue of half the stuff happening in there as it is

I just thought the previews showing Thors bowing to God Doom were fantastic. I'm gonna add it to my list.

 

[Khev]

I'm just shocked that after three years of gathering a dream team of sorts and really listening to the criticism of MOS that WB *still* couldn't just figure out how to make an inoffensive enough Batman/Superman movie that could win over even half of the critics. It just seems like "Hey, you're a threat, let's fight/okay you're not so bad let's go fight the REAL bad guy" should have been a real bread and butter staple to make a decent enough popcorn movie out of.

Marvel can apparently make entertaining movies with 3rd Tier characters in its sleep, why on Earth should it be this hard for WB with not just the biggest cinematic superhero (Batman) but Batman AND Supes and WW??? Crazy.

 

[batfan08]

I feel for you man, as a FoX-Men fan, I thought it was all but over for that franchise after X3 and Origins

Suicide squad might redeem this new DC universe, and if they hire a new director for JL everything should be fine.


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Was that directed towards me or Gaspar?

 

[GasparZizou]

Well, just watched the collider review Prince posted, those guys are real geeks, and they're disappointed, even some of them having liked MoS... I'm thinking my line of thought is going to be similar.

But strangely enough, all of them agree that it was a good set up for JL? I don't know, if it's bad I would rather they'd scrap the whole universe and start again.

 

[filip629]

When all is said and done I'll be shocked if BvS doesn't have a higher rewatch value for me than TDK and TDKR. Those are both good films (yes even TDKR) but I just don't ever find myself in the mood to actually watch them anymore. Of course I don't watch MOS either but still.

That's an excellent point.

I still get the BB/TDK itch though, they are just soooo good.

Same here. I can watch BB and TDK over and over again. TDKR is another story. I didn't like that one at all. Once was more than enough for me.

 

[YoNoSe]

I'm just shocked that after three years of gathering a dream team of sorts and really listening to the criticism of MOS...

You completely lost me right there, buddy.

 

[GasparZizou]

I feel for you man, as a FoX-Men fan, I thought it was all but over for that franchise after X3 and Origins

Suicide squad might redeem this new DC universe, and if they hire a new director for JL everything should be fine.

Screw you man! Why do you keep giving me hope?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'm just shocked that after three years of gathering a dream team of sorts and really listening to the criticism of MOS that WB *still* couldn't just figure out how to make an inoffensive enough Batman/Superman movie that could win over even half of the critics. It just seems like "Hey, you're a threat, let's fight/okay you're not so bad let's go fight the REAL bad guy" should have been a real bread and butter staple to make a decent enough popcorn movie out of.

Marvel can apparently make entertaining movies with 3rd Tier characters in its sleep, why on Earth should it be this hard for WB with not just the biggest cinematic superhero (Batman) but Batman AND Supes and WW??? Crazy.

Maybe because most people and critics aren't that familiar with those 3rd tier characters, so it's easier for them to accept what they are given, plus people like all that Marvel humor...makes the films "fun," which is a common complaint I've seen with MOS and BVS, the lack of fun.

 

[RIDDICK]

Can't keep up with this thread... I'll just leave 'till Saturday.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Can't keep up with this thread... I'll just leave 'till Saturday.

This thread will end up being the most successful and entertaining thing to come out of BVS

 

[Khev]

You completely lost me right there, buddy.

Because you don't consider their group a "dream team?" Well that's why I said "of sorts," I mean they they certainly seemed to be trying to gathering a solid group of actors/writers (Irons, Affleck, Eisenberg, Terrio) with pretty solid resumes (if you ignore Affleck's early work obviously) and it seemed like the whole plot of the movie revolved around a character who supposedly shared the mind of the internet MOS naysayers and look what happens. Even more internet naysayers. That approach certainly backfired for them. Or maybe not. Maybe it'll still make a billion dollars regardless of what the critics are predicting.

 

[filip629]

Taking the family on Friday to see this. Got 10:15 am tix. Gotta go see what the fuss is all about.

 

[Khev]

Geez down to 36% now. Brutal. Marvel/Hobbit movies are considered subpar if they fall into the 60's.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

This thread will end up being the most successful and entertaining thing to come out of BVS

 

[ironwez20]

Man the debates and reviews are gonna be worse than force awakens

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Geez down to 36% now. Brutal. Marvel/Hobbit movies are considered subpar if they fall into the 60's.

If you listen carefully, you can hear WWEjedi's evil Sith laugh.

 

[Plastic Bateman]

You make a great point, but after MoS wasn't it clear we're stuck with a de-saturated, de-mystifyed & dour Supes?

Considering the current world climate regarding war/terrorism/collapse, why would WB think audiences would desire more bleakness and carnage?

Recall how Raimi's first Spider-Man in 2002 gave audiences the escapism they craved after 9-11.
That tone went a long way towards that film's success.
Warner Bros. is so obtuse that this lesson was lost on them.

Agreed. Get with the program, Hollywood!

It's funny, all the trailers to this film and now this massive critical backlash have helped me single out my problem with Zack Snyder making comicbook movies. He's like an elevated Michael Bay: whereas Bay thinks teets and explosions = filmmaking, Snyder thinks slavishly reproducing comic panels in live action divorced of their original context = filmmaking. This is the man who managed to make a Watchmen movie at times frame-for-frame accurate to the comic and still miss the point.

There's a shot very similar to the Peace on Earth panel I posted in one of the trailers, with a crowd of adoring onlookers reaching out to Superman - but instead of the warm glow of hope, aspiration and nostalgia, it's desaturated, post-processed and tenebristic - digitised misery by comparison. Snyder just copied it in his own style, missing the entire point in the process.

I was talking to my father earlier about this film's icy reception, something which left him looking a little defeated as he'd obviously been hoping for a good Superman movie. He recalled reading old Superman comics in the 50's and how he associated the character with that sense of optimism and progress towards a brighter tomorrow following WWII. I asked him to describe what in his mind a Superman story should look and feel like, and he might as well have described an Alex Ross comic. Clearly WB/DC don't quite get that while DC characters tend to be more serious and, often, more consistently well-written than their scattershot Marvel counterparts, that doesn't mean everything needs to be grim, grey and miserable in the films they make. That works for Batman and a handful of other dour street-level vigilantes, it doesn't work so well for anyone else.

Michael Jackson was the right guy to capture that

That photo is creepy.

As if to prove my point about grubby millennial cynicism...

At this point the only workable option I see left is to do a Kingdom Come-inspired story of an older Superman returning to a world that's grown cold and cynical in his absence, or start making these films period pieces set in the time the characters were first created (30's Superman and Batman movies, 50's Green Lantern and Flash movies, etc).