Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

Making this seems as pathetic as watching it

Entropy said:

Making this seems as pathetic as watching it

Click to expand...

People who have watched it are pathetic?

I remember that time me and a group of people had a laugh doing something. What a bunch of absolute losers we were.

No silly. Like eating a bad meal, the experience of watching this is pathetic, not the people. Unless getting diarrhea is your thing.

The Buffinator said:

It's not that the concept of and mechanism for Noble's resurrection were lame but rather the overall execution. Up until that point Snyder didn't give us any indication that the Imperium'e elite had any special abilities (beyond combat training) or had any special tech implants. Noble's indulgences with his pet squid came across as nothing more than a fetish, so without proper foreshadowing it does indeed come across as a cheat and rather lame that he's miraculously resuscitated. Perhaps the lack of foreshadowing is due to the decision to split the movie in two and then further truncate Part 1 with this PG-13 cut? Only time will tell but when you have to refer to the novelization for the answer it's evident that Zack didn't do a good job of presenting it on screen in this version. This project seems it would have been better as a limited series rather than 2 feature films, but perhaps ZS's auteur ego wouldn't allow him to admit that.

p.s. - Speaking of resurrections, I could have sworn I also saw Ray Fisher's character make a brief appearance in the Part 2 trailer. A flashback or misdirect I hope?

Click to expand...

The lack of any information to hint at the neural network implants among the elite didn’t bother me. I don’t see that as a problem, really… The way of revealing it that was used in the film actually worked well for me.

The R-rated content for “the Twins,” not just one but a pair of aliens evidently, that apparently enjoy having sex with humans (and perhaps many other species?), is not appropriate for a PG-13 cut. The whole idea of inter-species sex I guess Zack felt was worth a look.

Only the Imperium elite have the neural link implants. I would think that rules Darrian out for what was done with Noble. Although the spirit of Issa, the Lifegiver, when incarnated in the flesh can possibly resurrect the dead. We saw that in the flashback scene of the royal princess with the dead bird. So I suppose if/when it is determined that Issa has been reborn (perhaps in Sam, or even Kora) she might have that ability. But I’m going to assume that given the explosion of the gunship when it hit the dock, that there’s probably not much left of Darrian’s body.

Anyway, my guess is that we’re only going to get flashbacks featuring Darrian Bloodaxe in Part 2, presumably told by his sister Devra. There’s a four comic run whuich i expect is probably about how the Bloodaxes started the rebellion. I think Devra will show up to defend Veldt, join the team, and tell that story. And indeed I’m expecting that in Part 2 each member of the team will tell their story in flashback narration style. I watched a video from a fan that for Rebel Moon Parts 1 & 2 theorized we may see Zack use the same form that he used from the Owls book trilogy, where the first book introduces characters, in the second book we learn the histories of the characters, and in the third book there’s the big battle.

If that speculation is correct, the use of flashback narration for all the team members will be criticized no doubt! It already has been for Kora.

I don’t need to list all the great films that use that storytelling device. The complaints will of course be about execution.

This all gets into the territory of what works for willing suspension of disbelief, i.e., buy-in, to the fiction. It genuinely fascinates me that I and many others that do enjoy this film can do that, and others cannot. I have very discriminating tastes, and one of my double majors as an undergrad was film studies. Just pointing out that I’ve formally studied the subject of cinema, although not making any grand claims that that makes my assessments better than anyone else’s. Anyway, I’ll be writing some essays about it, hopefully.

Alatar said:

The lack of any information to hint at the neural network implants among the elite didn’t bother me. I don’t see that as a problem, really… The way of revealing it that was used in the film actually worked well for me.

The R-rated content for “the Twins,” not just one but a pair of aliens evidently, that apparently enjoy having sex with humans (and perhaps many other species?), is not appropriate for a PG-13 cut. The whole idea of inter-species sex I guess Zack felt was worth a look.

Only the Imperium elite have the neural link implants. I would think that rules Darrian out for what was done with Noble. Although the spirit of Issa, the Lifegiver, when incarnated in the flesh can possibly resurrect the dead. We saw that in the flashback scene of the royal princess with the dead bird. So I suppose if/when it is determined that Issa has been reborn (perhaps in Sam, or even Kora) she might have that ability. But I’m going to assume that given the explosion of the gunship when it hit the dock, that there’s probably not much left of Darrian’s body.

Anyway, my guess is that we’re only going to get flashbacks featuring Darrian Bloodaxe in Part 2, presumably told by his sister Devra. There’s a four comic run whuich i expect is probably about how the Bloodaxes started the rebellion. I think Devra will show up to defend Veldt, join the team, and tell that story. And indeed I’m expecting that in Part 2 each member of the team will tell their story in flashback narration style. I watched a video from a fan that for Rebel Moon Parts 1 & 2 theorized we may see Zack use the same form that he used from the Owls book trilogy, where the first book introduces characters, in the second book we learn the histories of the characters, and in the third book there’s the big battle.

If that speculation is correct, the use of flashback narration for all the team members will be criticized no doubt! It already has been for Kora.

I don’t need to list all the great films that use that storytelling device. The complaints will of course be about execution.

This all gets into the territory of what works for willing suspension of disbelief, i.e., buy-in, to the fiction. It genuinely fascinates me that I and many others that do enjoy this film can do that, and others cannot. I have very discriminating tastes, and one of my double majors as an undergrad was film studies. Just pointing out that I’ve formally studied the subject of cinema, although not making any grand claims that that makes my assessments better than anyone else’s. Anyway, I’ll be writing some essays about it, hopefully.

Click to expand...

Well, I'll just agree to disagree in general over this movie "working". Glad that you enjoyed it and are looking forward to what happens next. For me this strategy of PG-13 cut followed by R cut followed by Part 2 (or is Part 2 before the R cut?) is a colossal misstep and screams of pandering to his core fan base at the expense of solid storytelling.
IMO Snyder failed to recognize the opportunity being afforded him by the medium this was being released on (i.e., Netflix's streaming platform). A limited series event would have given him the chance to correct many of the movie's faults (particularly lack of character and rebel team development) while also lessening the impact of the "cheat" at the end. You didn't have an issue with that but those without access to the novelization did (hell, it would have never occurred to me that one existed lol), but when you're binge watching a series it's less impactful. People are less likely to be critical when the answers to their questions are an hour away as opposed to waiting 4 months for Part 2 (or they subsequently read about “what actually happened” in a Snyder interview).

The Buffinator said:

Well, I'll just agree to disagree in general over this movie "working". Glad that you enjoyed it and are looking forward to what happens next. For me this strategy of PG-13 cut followed by R cut followed by Part 2 (or is Part 2 before the R cut?) is a colossal misstep and screams of pandering to his core fan base at the expense of solid storytelling.
IMO Snyder failed to recognize the opportunity being afforded him by the medium this was being released on (i.e., Netflix's streaming platform). A limited series event would have given him the chance to correct many of the movie's faults (particularly lack of character and rebel team development) while also lessening the impact of the "cheat" at the end. You didn't have an issue with that but those without access to the novelization did (hell, it would have never occurred to me that one existed lol), but when you're binge watching a series it's less impactful. People are less likely to be critical when the answers to their questions are an hour away as opposed to waiting 4 months for Part 2 (or they subsequently read about “what actually happened” in a Snyder interview).

Click to expand...

Oh yeah, from a public perception standpoint it’s hard to justify! I mean when you see the movie being called “the worst movie ever made” as this morning I noticed SFGate says it is, that is just as one of many examples of how badly it’s getting roasted.

But Netflix is apparently smart at what they do. So it’s hard to imagine they didn’t have a fair idea what they were getting themselves into. It’s fascinating that even though that the critics, infotainment media, and YT influencers are dunking on it so hard, nevertheless it still performed very impressively on Netflix worldwide in terms of views! I think there’s little doubt that both Parts 1 and 2 will enter the top 10 all-time most viewed Netflix originals once the R-rated extended cut is released in June. Part 1 PG-13 cut was still 77M views away from that at the end of week 2, but it’s numbers remained strong going into week 3, so it‘s a distinct possibility that it could get there even without the R-rated cut. The additional release of an R-rated cut will push it across that finish line for sure though.

But for the movie to be this polarizing… man! It’s definitely exhausting for the defenders of the film specifically and the overall vision for the franchise in general. And obviously it would be best in terms of marketing if the film had broad appeal. No argument there.

Has anyone else changed their Netflix profile pic to ZS?

Dave_W said:

Has anyone else changed their Netflix profile pic to ZS?

Click to expand...

I'll change mine to Zod for a while. I didn't enjoy Rebel Moon. But, to be fair, no one can take the Krypton sequences from Man Of Steel away. That encompassed what was best of what Snyder can potentially give an audience.

Zod was both right and wrong. Jor El was both right and wrong. The tragedy is they couldn't work together. Zod was headstrong and too defiant. But you can see he was not without some justification for his rage. Jor El was too soaked in his own virtue at the cost of his people. When Zod asked Jor El to join him, that was the best opportunity to negotiate for Zod's ships to rescue as many Kryptonians as possible, and leave for the outposts. Zod lacked the wisdom to see his rebellion was futile.

You see the great respect they had for each other. Now, again to be fair, both Crowe and Shannon were phenomenal. And maybe that's what you need in a Snyder film, just as much raw acting firepower as possible to patch over the areas where Snyder is consistently weak/struggles.

"Charles Xavier did more for mutants than you will ever know. My only regret is that he had to die for our dreams to live" Magneto said that in X Men 2. I didn't even have to look it up. There was such an interesting dynamic between Xavier and Magneto, they were brothers in one way, but bitter rivals in another. They were both right and they were both wrong about how to secure the future of mutants in a world designed to despise them.

Rebel Moon could have had that. A simple story about a general and the head of a small farming village who were brothers once, and now are on opposite sides of a very basic conflict ( How about not starving? That's pretty good motivation) . There are seeds of potentially 20 compelling stories within Rebel Moon Part 1. It's just that you can't film an outline and find real creative success. That's exactly what happened. Zack Snyder took his expansive show bible and just filmed an outline of some basic plot points.

If you need to watch a film two or three times to just get the basic premise, then it's a failure in storytelling ( there's a difference between Christopher Nolan making his films impossible to understand the dialogue to the point where people might need to see it 3-4 times and wait to see it at home with subtitles just to know what is being said versus someone rewatching Terry Gilliam's 12 Monkeys or David Fincher's Se7en multiple times to find the easter eggs, clues and fan service built within it as rich layering to an already functional narrative. )

If you need to read a novelization to just get the basic premise, then it's a failure in storytelling

If you refuse to accept the limitations of your medium , then it's a failure in storytelling. ( i.e. trying to make a film out of something that will end up needing to be a TV series or a wave of books to actually cover the story in practical depth , much akin to how Dune needs to be a novel series first and foremost, because the story is too complex to handle in a single film with no other context)

There's very likely a damn good film hidden in Rebel Moon Part 1. But that's the thing, it's hidden. It's likely only needs 1/10th of it's current plot and 1/10th of it's current characters to deliver a good story. It's weighted down by the 9/10ths that becomes more and more fractured and incomprehensible. Why does the Krypton sequence work in Man Of Steel? Simple premise ( We don't want to die on a planet that is going to blow up soon) and two major characters who are caught in an ideological divide over the answer.

Snyder has to come to terms that the more he reveals about his "show bible", that he's probably formulated over decades, the more it becomes apparent that he should have written a series of novels instead, then after it was complete, let real market forces dictate whether it should be a film series.

Dave_W said:

Has anyone else changed their Netflix profile pic to ZS?

Click to expand...

Not only is this my Netflix profile pic it’s also my phone background to remind me of when I might make a bad decision

I didn't mind the loss of Cavill as Superman. I enjoyed him there, but my biggest regret was not seeing a Krypton / Zod film. Good God, is Shannon just fantastic on all kinds of levels. That's the kind of film IMHO that would have kept the DCEU going strong.

Admiral Noble is nowhere near Shannon's Zod. That should be the first major clue why Rebel Moon Part 1 has struggled so badly with both fans and critics.

MeatHookGekko said:

But, to be fair, no one can take the Krypton sequences from Man Of Steel away. That encompassed what was best of what Snyder can potentially give an audience.

Click to expand...

I don't know man. The only thing that was even remotely memorable for me about that sequence was....

You mean, when all the penii landed...?

a-dev said:

I love that you don't need to have seen the movie for these to be hilarious

Click to expand...

Wait...are they really making a Snyder cut on this? wtf!?

What exactly is a "Snyder Cut" anyway? This term has become so well known. Is it literally more T&A and more violence, that's all? Sex and Death? The basic ingredients of all advertising? That makes it the Snyder cut? Seems really childish and prurient and basic. Not enlightened in the least.

Wor-Gar said:

What exactly is a "Snyder Cut" anyway?

Click to expand...

Originally it just meant the "Non-Joss Whedon Version" so I guess that meddling Joss was at it again!

Then call it what it is: the Non-Joss Cut

Gimme the non-joss cut!


I'd like to see the non-joss cut of the PT.... and ROTJ.... and the ST (perhaps the jossiest of all Star Wars trilogies)....

MeatHookGekko said:

I didn't mind the loss of Cavill as Superman. I enjoyed him there, but my biggest regret was not seeing a Krypton / Zod film. Good God, is Shannon just fantastic on all kinds of levels. That's the kind of film IMHO that would have kept the DCEU going strong.

Admiral Noble is nowhere near Shannon's Zod. That should be the first major clue why Rebel Moon Part 1 has struggled so badly with both fans and critics.

Click to expand...

Michael Shannon is amazing but he did return to playing Zod in The Flash last year and it was extremely forgetful.

When you say Rebel Moon has struggled with fans, what fans are you referring to?

Wor-Gar said:

What exactly is a "Snyder Cut" anyway? This term has become so well known. Is it literally more T&A and more violence, that's all? Sex and Death? The basic ingredients of all advertising? That makes it the Snyder cut? Seems really childish and prurient and basic. Not enlightened in the least.

Click to expand...

As close to his version as possible without interference and adjustment for runtime.
Why T&A? ZSJL didn't have any. Come to think of it, it had less.

T8OO said:

As close to his version as possible without interference and adjustment for runtime.
Why T&A? ZSJL didn't have any. Come to think of it, it had less.

Click to expand...

Just seems like that is what everyone is wanting/expecting. He likes hard-R, right?

That's my issue. Has he ever released anything he actually wanted to release? It always seems his hands are tied. There is always another cut because it's not what he wanted. Does he not know how to work with parameters? He always seems to have them. Perhaps that's a strategy: pay to see this and then pay to see what I took out.