Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

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For RM specifically there is no need to call out his artistic talents when he’s clearly said numerous times that it was a business decision between him and Netflix meant to extend viewership numbers over 4 movies.

Simple.
 
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That's my issue. Has he ever released anything he actually wanted to release? It always seems his hands are tied. There is always another cut because it's not what he wanted. Does he not know how to work with parameters? He always seems to have them. Perhaps that's a strategy: pay to see this and then pay to see what I took out.
300 and Man of Steel.
Does it really matter? Whats the actual problem?
 
300 and Man of Steel.
Does it really matter? Whats the actual problem?
He's taking food out of my kids' mouths!!! ;)
We are discussing. Not a problem that affects me personally. Just an observation I've come across with his films. Do other directors do this often? He just seems to have this as an MO.
 
For RM specifically there is no need to call out his artistic talents when he’s clearly said numerous times that it was a business decision between him and Netflix meant to extend viewership numbers over 4 movies.

Simple.
Plus I swear that I read him state point blank a couple years ago that the movie he pitched to LFL was "SW meets Seven Samurai" so that's what I was fully expecting from the beginning and wasn't taken aback in any way that the end result was highly derivative of those two things.
 
Plus I swear that I read him state point blank a couple years ago that the movie he pitched to LFL was "SW meets Seven Samurai" so that's what I was fully expecting from the beginning and wasn't taken aback in any way that the end result was highly derivative of those two things.
Cameron never gets called out for his extended cuts.

I think ZS makes theatrical cut aficionados uncomfortable lol
 
Plus I swear that I read him state point blank a couple years ago that the movie he pitched to LFL was "SW meets Seven Samurai" so that's what I was fully expecting from the beginning and wasn't taken aback in any way that the end result was highly derivative of those two things.
...nor were you surprised when it turned out to be decidedly less than the sum of its cribbed parts lol...
 
...nor were you surprised when it turned out to be decidedly less than the sum of its cribbed parts lol...
tenor.gif
 
That's my issue. Has he ever released anything he actually wanted to release? It always seems his hands are tied. There is always another cut because it's not what he wanted. Does he not know how to work with parameters? He always seems to have them. Perhaps that's a strategy: pay to see this and then pay to see what I took out.
His hands were not tied on this film, and he had a a big budget, he's just the king of movies with patches and dlc...
 
Cameron never gets called out for his extended cuts.

I think ZS makes theatrical cut aficionados uncomfortable lol
To be fair, Cameron's theatrical cuts are good and stand on their own. His extended cuts just a little bit more but they're not essential.
I know very little of Snyders work but from what I can tell from this thread, he needs his super duper extended versions to make his movies work properly.
 
Cameron's lean theatrical cuts are always better.

Only Jackson's LOTR is superior in extended length. They are the only movies I have ever seen that were better in their longer format.
 
When you say Rebel Moon has struggled with fans, what fans are you referring to?

If Rebel Moon Part 1 had a traditional theatrical release, it would have bombed.

It's getting strong numbers on Netflix, but this is already implied in the service itself. You can quantify Barbie as a box office juggernaut because people went out of their way, to carve out time, spend their money , drive to a theater, coordinate with friends, etc, etc, to go see it. This release was timed for the holidays, when people typically have some down time. They don't have to go anywhere to see it. And it's supported by Netflix's own bots, algorithms and internal advertising/marketing.

It's struggled with fans because the "word of mouth" is bad. There are lots of legacy shows like Who's The Boss and Growing Pains that would have been massacred if it was released at a different point in time. But there were only really three major networks. Most people didn't have cable TV. The competition was very thin. But it was accessible by just turning on the TV. You didn't need to travel, coordinate and spend more to see it.

At some point, you need "good word of mouth" All the marketing, virtue signaling, shock marketing and coordinated advertising roll outs can't stop the impact of basic word of mouth. Rebel Moon is going to fall under the category of "It's sort of OK, but you are paying for Netflix anyway, what else is there to watch?"

Now if someone said that Netflix's large scale competition is paying for or leveraging specific high profile reviewers or aligned publications/sites to pan Rebel Moon, then I'd agree with that. Netflix is now a big player and it's major competition wants them to suffer and burn. But again, nothing stops eventual word of mouth. So I don't believe all negative reviews against Rebel Moon are objective nor unbiased. But that's countered by the money Netflix spends to buy off reviewers, sites and publications as well. This is a silent "war" that works both ways.

Rebel Moons large viewing numbers on Netflix are not a lagging indicator of making fans happy. It's lagging indicator of the immediate raw benefit of implied proximity.

From the industry side, from a financing perspective, the only reason to make Rebel Moon is as a loss leader. To keep Snyder exclusively into the fold. This isn't much different than Fox green lighting Millennium, The Lone Gunmen and Harsh Realm, knowing that they'd all fail, just to keep Chris Carter happy since the X-Files, back then, was a legitimate television juggernaut and a real cultural phenomenon world wide. But this also has to consider that there is so much original programming out there. There becomes a major incentive for a network to keep, at high cost, someone like a Ryan Murphy exclusively.

Netflix is under a lot of pressure to create original content. To justify why subscribers should keep subscribing. If Snyder is here, it's because he couldn't make it outside of a system where the logistics favored a structurally flawed film. If you and Alatar and others love it, then great. You do you. I'm happy you found something you enjoy. But practical fan word of mouth for this is just not very good. But Netflix HQ knew that. Which is why Rebel Moon only got a very short window theatrical release in a small number of areas and venues.

Moving the goalposts or attempting to doesn't deflect from the reality that, at some point, a film has to be able to stand on it's own merits. But Rebel Moon, in the eyes of Netflix HQ is not a film, it's content. They'd love a huge hit on their hands, if they can get it, but they are more than happy to settle, as a consolation prize, for just more empty calories.
 
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