HBO: The Last of Us
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I thought that was cgi, I saw that image this morning on Reddit, I was surprised lol!
chrisstbh
Thrawnald McDonald
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BladeS
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The show had a monumental task. Adapting a legendary video game that's over a decade old nearing as many remakes as Skyrim. No matter what they did, the criticisms were going to be rampant from fans of the game.
If they tried to change the story up they would get hit with complaints of, "why did they change up from the game, it was already perfect the way it was".
If they leave it shot for shot you get people saying, "what was the point of this, they just did the same thing as the game."
Then comes the casting, "Why didn't they just cast the original motion capture team?"
"Why did they cast x or y, they don't look enough like x or y. Their look isn't going to capture the character for me."
"Why wasn't the show as brutal and gory as the game, to drive home the point of how violent and unforgiving the world is?"
A video game has dozens and dozens of hours of potential space to fill in characterization, player interactions, world building, you name it. Plus you add in the engagement factor of actually BEING the character. A show doesn't have any of that luxury to expand as much before people say, "this episode was filler", "this didn't push the plot forward" since that's the new pitfall I see complaints about now.
I'm not going to say the show was perfect as I still prefer the game, but to say the show was bad or a "**** show" is a very poor take. It really could have stood to gain from much longer episodes, or another 2-3 episodes to expand on character development and interaction and showing the actual infected more than twice. But what was put on screen was very well done. Well acted, well shot, and it followed the plot properly. To me it just felt kind of like a highlight reel without enough meat along the way.
If you really want to see a **** show, look at a majority of previous game adaptations. Or even more topical, some of the recent Star Wars shows. (I'm looking at you, Book of Boba Fett, with your power ranger squad and Seinfeld low speed chase scene.)
To me, this was a great show overall and I really look forward to season 2 (and all the drama that will reemerge).
If they tried to change the story up they would get hit with complaints of, "why did they change up from the game, it was already perfect the way it was".
If they leave it shot for shot you get people saying, "what was the point of this, they just did the same thing as the game."
Then comes the casting, "Why didn't they just cast the original motion capture team?"
"Why did they cast x or y, they don't look enough like x or y. Their look isn't going to capture the character for me."
"Why wasn't the show as brutal and gory as the game, to drive home the point of how violent and unforgiving the world is?"
A video game has dozens and dozens of hours of potential space to fill in characterization, player interactions, world building, you name it. Plus you add in the engagement factor of actually BEING the character. A show doesn't have any of that luxury to expand as much before people say, "this episode was filler", "this didn't push the plot forward" since that's the new pitfall I see complaints about now.
I'm not going to say the show was perfect as I still prefer the game, but to say the show was bad or a "**** show" is a very poor take. It really could have stood to gain from much longer episodes, or another 2-3 episodes to expand on character development and interaction and showing the actual infected more than twice. But what was put on screen was very well done. Well acted, well shot, and it followed the plot properly. To me it just felt kind of like a highlight reel without enough meat along the way.
If you really want to see a **** show, look at a majority of previous game adaptations. Or even more topical, some of the recent Star Wars shows. (I'm looking at you, Book of Boba Fett, with your power ranger squad and Seinfeld low speed chase scene.)
To me, this was a great show overall and I really look forward to season 2 (and all the drama that will reemerge).
ironwez20
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It started off strong but just kinda fell flat in the end. It could have been a bit better but it tried to be different in places where it wasn’t needed and sacrificed integral moments and world building . It’s serviceable as an adaptation but not nearly as good as the game or what it could have been. Also the lack of violence is very weird and the lack of zombie action
RandomHero
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You could actually make the argument that Joel's actions were the most humane event to have happened in this cruel world. The way he looked at it, Ellie wasn't given a final say on the matter and he wasn't willing to give up on her because she's the one thing that was able to bring him back from the brink over the course of two decades.
In a way, Joel did save the world. He just saved his world, not everyone else's.
BladeS
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I had a little bit of my own epiphany last night after the show that follows this train of thought. Joel has seen the absolute worst of humanity. Cannibals, raiders, post apocalyptic fascism... Why does he give a **** if humanity survives? He's always been out for himself, the final decision he made was so completely in character for him.
All these years I never really realized how obvious it was. Maybe because as an outside viewer you look at it rationally and think, "Wow that's a tough decision to make."
But like they said in the episode discussion it was the easiest decision he ever made.
I really like both of these takes. I've played the game a lot the past 10 years, amd love seeing people interpret Joel's motivations.
R_R_X
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Well now that it's all said and done my opinion remains the same, it's not a bad adaptation, some parts are very good but unfortunately it was too rushed and the lack of infected, violence and iconic bonding moments and arc defining scenes resulted in a very watered down version of the story I love.
Loved seeing Ashley Johnson as Anna, but damn it's weird hearing and seeing the actual Ellie in this and she was so damn good, loved that they let her use the knife to kill the infected that showed up for a small cameo.
The giraffe moment was great, I was surprised to find out the giraffe wasn't CGI because it looked like it when I was watching the show, maybe they actually replaced the real one with a CGI model like they did the bloater? Still it was a cool moment I think it has that magical feel of the game for new viewers.
The talk about suicide definitely hit close home, in the game it's simply alluded to that Joel has perhaps considered or attempted suicide when they find the corpses of a couple who decided to go out together, Ellie says they took the easy way out to which Joel simply replies "Trust me, it ain't easy." I always suspected Joel probably tried to take his own life at some point but seeing it actually be confirmed in the show was great, he also has a scar on his forehead in the game now we know why and the lines "Time heals all wounds." "It wasn't time that did it." were great even if a little bit on the nose but overall it's been one of the few moments I've actually felt the show expanded upon the story of the game and probably the one scene I wish had been in the game too, but it absolutely sucks they cut out the photo having Ellie hand that to him would've been the cherry on top.
The hospital scene was ok, I don't think it nailed the desperation and race against time feel of the game and suffered from the same rushed treatment of pretty much ever other big moment, seeing some violence was good at least but I was still rolling my eyes at the camera cutting back to Pascal whenever he shot someone up close, seeing him shoot Je- I mean the totally random doctor that has no significance was hilarious, he didn't even let him say the "This is our future, think of all the lives we'll save." I have to say though I was very disappointed by how abruptly they ended the sequence with him simply walking into the elevator and leaving, to me one of the best and most important moments of the game is the final moment you control Joel and he is running through the hallways of the hospital with Ellie in his arms while Gustavo Santaolalla's beautiful soundtrack completely takes the center stage, it was the perfect way to go full circle with him running with Sarah in his arms at the beginning but losing her and then Ellie at the end but saving her.
I thought Pascal's delivery of "You'd just come after her." was shockingly bad, almost robotic and devoid of the determination and coldness Troy Baker delivers the line with, the ending with them walking through the woods and Joel comparing Ellie to Sarah was also very odd and I didn't like it, it's almost like the writers wanted Pascal's Joel come across like a weirdo and fuel the stupid opinions that Joel just wanted Ellie to replace his dead daughter I never once felt that in the game and never entertained the idea, the final scene was pretty much a 1:1 remake of the game but I didn't really feel the dialogue the same way, biased absolutely but Bella just can't match Ashley's performance.
So not a bad adaptation by any means, competent, well shot and well made but would I recommend it over the game? No. The game remains the defining way to experience The Last of Us and I think that the show is proof that some stories work better in other mediums, you simply cannot recreate that strong and close bond with these characters like you do in a video game especially when you want to steer away from them and focus on side characters like Bill and Frank and the god awful Kathleen, sure you could argue that a 1:1 retelling will be boring for the game fans but when the main argument for the show existing in the first place is that it's meant to introduce the story to new audiences then I just feel like they failed in doing that, some scenes are identical, the beats are the same and the deviations aren't many but at the end of the day I don't think it truly managed to capture what made the game so special.
Loved seeing Ashley Johnson as Anna, but damn it's weird hearing and seeing the actual Ellie in this and she was so damn good, loved that they let her use the knife to kill the infected that showed up for a small cameo.
The giraffe moment was great, I was surprised to find out the giraffe wasn't CGI because it looked like it when I was watching the show, maybe they actually replaced the real one with a CGI model like they did the bloater? Still it was a cool moment I think it has that magical feel of the game for new viewers.
The talk about suicide definitely hit close home, in the game it's simply alluded to that Joel has perhaps considered or attempted suicide when they find the corpses of a couple who decided to go out together, Ellie says they took the easy way out to which Joel simply replies "Trust me, it ain't easy." I always suspected Joel probably tried to take his own life at some point but seeing it actually be confirmed in the show was great, he also has a scar on his forehead in the game now we know why and the lines "Time heals all wounds." "It wasn't time that did it." were great even if a little bit on the nose but overall it's been one of the few moments I've actually felt the show expanded upon the story of the game and probably the one scene I wish had been in the game too, but it absolutely sucks they cut out the photo having Ellie hand that to him would've been the cherry on top.
The hospital scene was ok, I don't think it nailed the desperation and race against time feel of the game and suffered from the same rushed treatment of pretty much ever other big moment, seeing some violence was good at least but I was still rolling my eyes at the camera cutting back to Pascal whenever he shot someone up close, seeing him shoot Je- I mean the totally random doctor that has no significance was hilarious, he didn't even let him say the "This is our future, think of all the lives we'll save." I have to say though I was very disappointed by how abruptly they ended the sequence with him simply walking into the elevator and leaving, to me one of the best and most important moments of the game is the final moment you control Joel and he is running through the hallways of the hospital with Ellie in his arms while Gustavo Santaolalla's beautiful soundtrack completely takes the center stage, it was the perfect way to go full circle with him running with Sarah in his arms at the beginning but losing her and then Ellie at the end but saving her.
I thought Pascal's delivery of "You'd just come after her." was shockingly bad, almost robotic and devoid of the determination and coldness Troy Baker delivers the line with, the ending with them walking through the woods and Joel comparing Ellie to Sarah was also very odd and I didn't like it, it's almost like the writers wanted Pascal's Joel come across like a weirdo and fuel the stupid opinions that Joel just wanted Ellie to replace his dead daughter I never once felt that in the game and never entertained the idea, the final scene was pretty much a 1:1 remake of the game but I didn't really feel the dialogue the same way, biased absolutely but Bella just can't match Ashley's performance.
So not a bad adaptation by any means, competent, well shot and well made but would I recommend it over the game? No. The game remains the defining way to experience The Last of Us and I think that the show is proof that some stories work better in other mediums, you simply cannot recreate that strong and close bond with these characters like you do in a video game especially when you want to steer away from them and focus on side characters like Bill and Frank and the god awful Kathleen, sure you could argue that a 1:1 retelling will be boring for the game fans but when the main argument for the show existing in the first place is that it's meant to introduce the story to new audiences then I just feel like they failed in doing that, some scenes are identical, the beats are the same and the deviations aren't many but at the end of the day I don't think it truly managed to capture what made the game so special.
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R_R_X
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I had it the very first time I played, "Why save the world? What world is there even to save?" you spend a gruelling 15 hours experiencing the worst this world has to offer with the only shining thing in it being this little girl, every step of the way is filled with infected, hunters and cannibals who are out to kill you, QZs are still falling to rebels on a regular basis, thriving communities are few and far between and even good people like Sam and Henry are willing to leave you for dead to make sure they survive, this whole world is beyond saving and 15 hours were enough to prove that, now imagine actually living in it for 20 years...
Even if the fireflies miraculously managed to create a cure with their limited resources what could they realistically do with it in a world that's completely taken over by infected in every corner of the earth and where most people will kill you in the hopes you have a can beans? Nothing that's what, sure you might be safe from infection but the infected will still rip you apart, people will still be hungry enough to kill and eat you and people will still die from everything in a world that doesn't have the same infrastructures we do.
So yeah we can argue all day about the morality of the situation and we can agree or disagree with Joel's choice or how the Fireflies handled the situation but for Joel and myself, no matter how ugly it was I never once thought about sacrificing Ellie like it's been said by many people including Troy Baker, "he did save the world, it's just that the world was that girl, and that's it." the easiest decision in his life indeed.
chrisstbh
Thrawnald McDonald
Giraffes don't exist so it's hard to make them look real.
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Ellie Kills!
I think what took me out of this show the most, was the lack of emotion from Pedro and Bella. Bella's expression hardly ever changes, no matter how much **** hits the fan. lol
Troy and Ashley showed more emotion and just overall acting talent during their 5 minutes of showtime than Pedro and Bella did the entire season. But I suppose that also just hows how freaking talented Troy and Ashley are. They'll never be replaced as Joel and Ellie....by anyone.
Also found it kind of odd how quickly their father/daughter relationship went from 0-100 from one episode to the next. This is what I kept saying, they needed to cut out the filler episodes and focus more on the two characters this series is actually about...and then develop it into something more believable. But I guess Pedro Joel is just a big 'ol sofite or something in this universe....when he isn't killing doctors. lol
Overall, the last couple episodes have been surprisingly accurate to the game. I just wish we could have had more Joel and Ellie scenes from the game. This season really needed another 3-4 episodes.
By the sounds of it, they're making Part II into two separate seasons. Too bad it'll still suck. lol
Troy and Ashley showed more emotion and just overall acting talent during their 5 minutes of showtime than Pedro and Bella did the entire season. But I suppose that also just hows how freaking talented Troy and Ashley are. They'll never be replaced as Joel and Ellie....by anyone.
Also found it kind of odd how quickly their father/daughter relationship went from 0-100 from one episode to the next. This is what I kept saying, they needed to cut out the filler episodes and focus more on the two characters this series is actually about...and then develop it into something more believable. But I guess Pedro Joel is just a big 'ol sofite or something in this universe....when he isn't killing doctors. lol
Overall, the last couple episodes have been surprisingly accurate to the game. I just wish we could have had more Joel and Ellie scenes from the game. This season really needed another 3-4 episodes.
By the sounds of it, they're making Part II into two separate seasons. Too bad it'll still suck. lol
MeatHookGekko
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I stayed out of this thread until the end of the season.
I think one of the most common concerns ( albeit it's hard to gauge the entire audience, so that's trying to be fair here) is that there was not enough time developing the relationship between Joel and Ellie.
That's where a lot of folks found the narrative a bit disjointed. I believe part of the issue is that some folks are also extrapolating the game experience into the TV experience. For example I'm a huge fan of Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas. If someone made a TV show about those IPs, I'd naturally fill in the blanks in context because I have previous immersion with the storylines. Whereas it could be quite disjointed to someone else entirely.
I don't mind an episode focusing on Bill and Frank, nor an episode focusing on Ellie and Riley. But make it a longer season. A lot of HBO shows are 10-13 episodes for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I get the desire not to slow things down for the sake of milking the clock. There were many episodes of Lost that were just throwing crap against a wall to fill out time and go into more aimless directions ( many of those flashbacks were just pointless to be honest) But the sparse level of Joel/Ellie 1 vs 1 interaction ( that's my view, no one has to share it) made some of the tension disappear from the show.
Four more episodes could have done a lot for this season. Just all the way around. Just my take though. For those who really enjoyed it, I'm happy for those folks.
MeatHookGekko
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I felt zero tension in the hospital at the end. I never felt as if Joel might not make it in time. I felt zero tension with Ellie trying to help Joel in that empty house with the big wound.
I posted up the classic tavern scene in Inglourious Bastards to kind of highlight the kind of unsettling uncomfortable tension I'm talking about. A longer season, IMHO, could have helped. Just more David, more Henry and Sam, more KC, more settlement, more Marlene, etc, etc. Flesh things out a bit.
This is where the lack of violence hurt the show a bit IMHO. The violence and action raises the stakes. Now violence and action for the sake of spectacle, I get why Mazin might not want that. But you can't avoid the looming threat of the zombies/clickers/etc etc and the pressure that creates on the characters.
The way the show was constructed, the clickers were there when it was plot expedient only. Not as a sense of pervasive dread as a black cloud over everyone.
I get the overall limitations of a video game to cross over. You have levels and you are trying to scale up the player character to take on bigger and bigger threats. That doesn't translate easily to TV. But the show formatted itself as each episode turning into an almost MOTW ( Monster Of The Week) kind of dynamic.
I'd like to see a 13 episode version of this season. Genuinely so.
MeatHookGekko
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I would have liked a dedicated episode with Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson as Ellie's parents. But I get why, for lore and maybe for Part III reasons they didn't want to go there. But I would have enjoyed Ashley Johnson lasting a little longer to sing to the baby. Her singing was a huge part of the game lore, and she has a nice voice, and I believe it would have been nice homage and a little Easter Egg for game fans, to have Ashley singing. Or Baker and Johnson singing together a few times.
So I'm no music expert, but Johnson sounds like a real person singing. It's not Adele and it's not Celine Dion and not Whitney Houston. And I think that makes it all the better. It shows a kind of bravery to sing as a regular person, albeit more talented than average, but not a professional singer.
I suppose an interesting question is if the show saved Ashley Johnson from her cameo, and simply cast her as adult Ellie later in a time jump as a main character for a later season. Now THAT would have been really interesting.
Mandible
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Couldn't agree more with everything you said. Even the opening of Inglorious Bastards is 23 minutes of essentially two people sitting in a room - yet it's riveting.
Personally, I still found Pedro's Joel to be deadpan, lifeless, and dialed-in.
Bella was okay... okay at best. So many weird things with her character that amounted to nothing as well. The scene where she stabs the infected in the head like a psychopath??? Ooooookay... How did that affect the story or add anything worthwhile?
So many little things that make worlds of difference were neglected.
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