The Flash - July 2022

[Mondragon]

Half the world was rejecting him. The other half thought he was a God. He feels like he doesn't belong.
His girlfriend had just been thrown off a skyscraper. His mother has been gagged and tortured.
He has to either kill Batman or he dies or his mother dies. His hand is being forced into an impossible situation. He has no choice but to beg the guy that wants him dead or kill him. He's being forced to be bad.
In my opinion, it's reasonable to feel hopeless in an impossible situation.

I think it's such a shame that because it's Superman we can't see him tested to his limit, hit rock bottom and then bring it back.

 

[Mondragon]

I honestly had no idea Superman and Lois Lane had a daughter?

Red thigh boots would have looked great!
It reminded me of this straight away.

Apparently she's originally from the Silver Age alt reality story "Superlass" was the daughter of Superman and Lois Lane ...

 

[T8OO]

?

 

[Dave_W]

Half the world was rejecting him. The other half thought he was a God. He feels like he doesn't belong.
His girlfriend had just been thrown off a skyscraper. His mother has been gagged and tortured.
He has to either kill Batman or he dies or his mother dies. His hand is being forced into an impossible situation. He has no choice but to beg the guy that wants him dead or kill him. He's being forced to be bad.
In my opinion, it's reasonable to feel hopeless in an impossible situation.

I think it's such a shame that because it's Superman we can't see him tested to his limit, hit rock bottom and then bring it back.

I love Superman being morally and emotionally tested, those are the best stories. It's the only way you can defeat him really, you're not gonna win with brute force. But to have Lex be an absolute POS and for him to then go and write off humanity IN THE SECOND FILM?!?! Again, have him lose faith when he's lost everything like he did in Injustice.

The dude has the kryptonian symbol for hope on his chest and he writes off an entire civilisation because 'bad man force me make tough decision'. It is SO out of character so early on in his cinematic arc. I really like BvS, but that one sentence is impossible for me to swallow. Jonathan saying kids should have 'maybe drowned' in MoS was the other one.

 

[T8OO]

I love Superman being morally and emotionally tested, those are the best stories. It's the only way you can defeat him really, you're not gonna win with brute force. But to have Lex be an absolute POS and for him to then go and write off humanity IN THE SECOND FILM?!?! Again, have him lose faith when he's lost everything like he did in Injustice.

The dude has the kryptonian symbol for hope on his chest and he writes off an entire civilisation because 'bad man force me make tough decision'. It is SO out of character so early on in his cinematic arc. I really like BvS, but that one sentence is impossible for me to swallow. Jonathan saying kids should have 'maybe drowned' in MoS was the other one.

In Injustice he does actually give up. In Snyders movies, he doesn't give up. Surely the one that doesn't give up wins the 'Hope' badge.

I have kids, I would say the same thing. I wouldn't want my child to deal with being Superman at 13 years old and being carted off by the government.

 

[Dave_W]

"Nothing stays good" is a strong line from someone who refuses to give up. I have no problem with him questioning things in the film and being conflicted and cynical of Bruce, Lex etc. , but that line 'NOTHING' in his second film? He's basically saying everyone is corruptible, everyone is capable of doing really bad things and it's all unavoidable. It's just the wrong line of thinking for him so soon into his arc. He should have said something like 'good people will never be left alone' or 'I'll never be able to save everyone'.

As tough as it is, I'd always want my kids to do the right thing and we'd deal with whatever the consequences are.

 

[Khev]

This movie and NWH are basically a joke to be laughed at in 10 years looking back... they are the modern equivalent of Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein and Dracula, or more recently Alien vs Predator.

Who knows how The Flash will turn out but I don't think that anyone who enjoyed NWH when it came out will suddenly do an about face in a few years and laugh at it. Most who saw it found it to be a highly entertaining movie with the excitement of seeing the three Spideys together more akin to the Avengers assembling in 2012 for the first time than those other movies you reference.

And AvP always could have been awesome as the early comics showed but they just failed to execute when making the movies.

 

[Kebron]

As tough as it is, I'd always want my kids to do the right thing and we'd deal with whatever the consequences are.

Yeah as a person who works in the emergency services field, and who has children, I teach them to always do the right thing and help if they are able to. NOT let people drown when you could of safely and easily saved them, and NOT let a loved walk into a tornado to die saving a dog, when they could of safely and easily done it.

 

[ZE_501]

In Injustice he does actually give up. In Snyders movies, he doesn't give up. Surely the one that doesn't give up wins the 'Hope' badge.

I have kids, I would say the same thing. I wouldn't want my child to deal with being Superman at 13 years old and being carted off by the government.

So you'd be fine with letting a school bus full of 13-year old kids drown to death to avoid government scrutiny? Serious question.

 

[Khev]

In Injustice he does actually give up. In Snyders movies, he doesn't give up. Surely the one that doesn't give up wins the 'Hope' badge.

I have kids, I would say the same thing. I wouldn't want my child to deal with being Superman at 13 years old and being carted off by the government.

How would the government cart off anybody with Superman powers?

That'd be like me telling my kids "hey don't publicly help anyone otherwise some of the ants in the backyard might come and take you to their colony," lol.

 

[T8OO]

"Nothing stays good" is a strong line from someone who refuses to give up. I have no problem with him questioning things in the film and being conflicted and cynical of Bruce, Lex etc. , but that line 'NOTHING' in his second film? He's basically saying everyone is corruptible, everyone is capable of doing really bad things and it's all unavoidable. It's just the wrong line of thinking for him so soon into his arc. He should have said something like 'good people will never be left alone' or 'I'll never be able to save everyone'.

As tough as it is, I'd always want my kids to do the right thing and we'd deal with whatever the consequences are.

The right thing isn't always obvious. If your kids saw someone go under an icy lake do you want them to go in after them?

 

[T8OO]

Yeah as a person who works in the emergency services field, and who has children, I teach them to always do the right thing and help if they are able to. NOT let people drown when you could of safely and easily saved them, and NOT let a loved walk into a tornado to die saving a dog, when they could of safely and easily done it.

How do you know he could easily and safely saved him? We don't know how much control he has at that moment. He trusted his father and his father decided he wasn't ready.

The movie shows him really struggling with it all at 35 years old. How's a 13 year supposed to deal with it? My 14-year-old struggles as it is. I'm not adding exposing him as an alien to that.

 

[T8OO]

So you'd be fine with letting a school bus full of 13-year old kids drown to death to avoid government scrutiny? Serious question.

Fine? Where in any of this is anyone saying people dying is fine?
If you had to pick between your own child's life and a bus full of kids, which one are you going with? There's no way he carries on doing such things as a teen and doesn't get the worlds attention.

 

[Dave_W]

The right thing isn't always obvious. If your kids saw someone go under an icy lake do you want them to go in after them?

The right thing to do in that instance would be to dial the emergency services, tell my kids to stay off the lake and to test the ice out for myself to see if it's even remotely possible to help without killing myself.

 

[T8OO]

How would the government cart off anybody with Superman powers?

That'd be like me telling my kids "hey don't publicly help anyone otherwise some of the ants in the backyard might come and take you to their colony," lol.

Exactly, what would happen if the government tried to? He goes with them or he stops them. None of it is going to be pretty.

 

[T8OO]

The right thing to do in that instance would be to dial the emergency services, tell my kids to stay off the lake and to test the ice out for myself to see if it's even remotely possible to help without killing myself.

So you would ask your children to restrain themselves for there own protection?

 

[Dave_W]

So you would ask your children to restrain themselves for there own protection?

In the icey lake context, I'd tell them to stay out of a situation that would almost 100% get them killed, yes. If they were super powered gods, I'd tell them to save the bus full of kids and if it came to it, destroy the government if they try to take you away

 

[ZE_501]

Fine? Where in any of this is anyone saying people dying is fine?
If you had to pick between your own child's life and a bus full of kids, which one are you going with? There's no way he carries on doing such things as a teen and doesn't get the worlds attention.

Okay, I'll rephrase that for you.

In this hypothetical situation you have an alien child you've adopted with extraordinary powers and abilities.

That child is in a situation wherein he can save a bus full of his peers from dying on impact or subsequently drowning to death, but in so doing risks revealing his nature and inviting a great deal of government and public scrutiny that will present him with significant, life-altering emotional and psychological challenges.

It's a given that he's not going to get hurt saving them.

You would prefer that he allow his peers to perish? In this scenario we'll assume you're not "fine" with it but feel really bad about it afterwards, but your kid has avoided the government and public scrutiny.

Is that precise enough for you? You would prefer the deaths of his peers to guard his secret?

 

[T8OO]

Okay, I'll rephrase that for you.

In this hypothetical situation you have an alien child you've adopted with extraordinary powers and abilities.

That child is in a situation wherein he can save a bus full of his peers from dying on impact or subsequently drowning to death, but in so doing risks revealing his nature and inviting a great deal of government and public scrutiny that will present him with significant, life-altering emotional and psychological challenges.

It's a given that he's not going to get hurt saving them.

You would prefer that he allow his peers to perish? In this scenario we'll assume you're not "fine" with it but feel really bad about it afterwards, but your kid has avoided the government and public scrutiny.

Is that precise enough for you? You would prefer the deaths of his peers to guard his secret?

Maybe...

This is the issue. His Father doesn't want to let the kids die. He doesn't want Clark to face his future too early. He doesn't have an answer because there isn't one that protects both. I'd want my kids to do the right thing but I don't want them to get hurt. It's a difficult question for a reason.

One could end up with the kids saved and a rampant 14-year-old super alien creating a knighmare world where he reigns over everything like a vengeful god.

 

[ZE_501]

Maybe...

This is the issue. His Father doesn't want to let the kids die. He doesn't want Clark to face his future too early. He doesn't have an answer because there isn't one that protects both. I'd want my kids to do the right thing but I don't want them to get hurt. It's a difficult question for a reason.

One could end up with the kids saved and a rampant 14-year-old super alien creating a knighmare world where he reigns over everything like a vengeful god.

Even were I thinking only of my child, I'd take the chance on saving his peers rather than expecting him to process the guilt and PTSD of knowing he could have saved them but chose not to, for fear of what might have happened to him.

In a world of moral gray areas, I still think saving a school bus full of kids is kind of a no-brainer.