HBO: The Last of Us

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

Obviously not lol, I had more hair on my face when I was 17 than he has now! I geuss they could give him a fake one but he seems miscast to me, not to mention his character in The Mandalorian has a similar arc to Joel, I really think they could've found somone better, an unknown actor, someone with the southern charm, and maybe who can grow a beard as well lol.

Imagine being pissed off about having to wear a helmet and now having to wear fake hair on his face.

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

These are both very strange choices, apart from Pedro's current popularity.

His popularity at the moment is most likely what got him the role, and while he is a fine actor I am not convinced in the slightest he was the best actor they could've found for the role, especially compared to the casting porcess they had for the first game where they went through a long list of people acting opposite each other until they found the two that perfectly matched, there is no way in hell they did the same for this show with the current pandemic, they picked someone who will attract the most viewers aka the biggest star on TV right now.

Bella Ramsey is a weird one indeed considering she is british and obviously looks nothing like Ellie, my best guess is since she already has a part in Game of Thrones it was easier to bring her in? Apparently she plays the guitar and sings pretty well, so they must have plans to adpat the second game too.

Please share your thoughts! Always love hearing them.

 

[Asta]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

His popularity at the moment is most likely what got him the role, and while he is a fine actor I am not convinced in the slightest he was the best actor they could've found for the role, especially compared to the casting porcess they had for the first game where they went through a long list of people acting opposite each other until they found the two that perfectly matched, there is no way in hell they did the same for this show with the current pandemic, they picked someone who will attract the most viewers aka the biggest star on TV right now.

Bella Ramsey is a weird one indeed considering she is british and obviously looks nothing like Ellie, my best guess is since she already has a part in Game of Thrones it was easier to bring her in? Apparently she plays the guitar and sings pretty well, so they must have plans to adpat the second game too.

Please share your thoughts! Always love hearing them.

As you implied in your first post the games present a mountain to climb to match not only the acting, but the character likenesses as well.

I was interested in this series because of the property, but it was always going to be difficult to match the game itself. The choices of Pedro and Bella instantly turned that interest towards morbid curiosity. I'm really not expecting much in terms of adding value to the TLOU 'experience'.

I'm actually surprised that Ellie is still being cast as a white actress. As it is, it wouldn't have mattered much because we're gong to be presented with what amounts to an alternative version of the characters.

I last saw Bella in His Dark Materials, and she's one of the last people I'd expect to be cast as Ellie since she has such a unique appearance.

Also think, like you, that they might have rushed the process due to the pandemic.

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

As you implied in your first post the games present a mountain to climb to match not only the acting, but the character likenesses as well.

I was interested in this series because of the property, but it was always going to be difficult to match the game itself. The choices of Pedro and Bella instantly turned that interest towards morbid curiosity. I'm really not expecting much in terms of adding value to the TLOU 'experience'.

I'm actually surprised that Ellie is still being cast as a white actress. As it is, it wouldn't have mattered much because we're gong to be presented with what amounts to an alternative version of the characters.

I last saw Bella in His Dark Materials, and she's one of the last people I'd expect to be cast as Ellie since she has such a unique appearance.

Also think, like you, that they might have rushed the process due to the pandemic.

Agreed.

Making this a direct adaptation was a huge mistake, they had the perfect opportunity to write something fresh and interesting with original characters after the controversial sequel, instead they are choosing to adapt a story that has already been told and acted to the closest thing there is to perfection, the first game is so universally loved in large part due to Joel and Ellie that they absolutely needed to get the casting right to even come close to the game and I don't think they did.
The casting feels out of place and rushed, and at the risk of sparking political debate, Pedro Pascal simply doesn't fit Joel, at all, Joel is a scruffy, born and raised texan man with an a recognizable accent, his nickname is "Texas" for christ sakes, Pedro on the other hand is chilean with a very distinct accent of his own, so either he can pull off a mighty fine texan accent or they will have to retcon Joel's origins, it doesn't help at all that he can't grow a beard which is probably one of the most defining traits of Joel's appearance.

Bella being cast also surprised me for the same reasons you said, I'm surprised they didn't try to cast a POC actress but they clearly didn't want to cast someone who looked like Ellie either, and I'm also curious why they went with a young british actress, she'll need to pull off a proper american accent, otherwise I've only ever seen her in the dreadful final seasons of Game of Thrones and she was good there but as you said she doesn't strike me as Ellie, who is more of the innocent, dependent type in the first game, her face is very stern even for a child.

Overall just seems like rushed casting with Pascal being cast simply for his popularity, the people on twitter seem to love it and that is their target audience so hooray for them I guess, I on the other hand will simply peek at the show on youtube whenever it releases, I really have no plans to invest time in what will be an inferior adaptation of a story and characters that I love so dearly, I'm honestly tired of this fervent need to make everything live action, it's especially weird in this case when the games are pratically full fledged movies with gameplay thrown into the mix which actually elevates it as you're taking part in the journey and immersed in a way a movie doesn't provide, so yeah I guess whenever I want to expirience the story again I'll just replay the game and hope for a remake with the improved graphics, gameplay and character models of Part 2 or hell a Joel prequel game, so many possibilities with this franchise and they're wasting time on this show...

 

[Victοr]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

What's the point of this? The game is already a long movie. Just another case of the industry being creatively bankrupt, I suppose.

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

What's the point of this? The game is already a long movie. Just another case of the industry being creatively bankrupt, I suppose.

 

[Asta]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

Agreed.

Making this a direct adaptation was a huge mistake, they had the perfect opportunity to write something fresh and interesting with original characters after the controversial sequel, instead they are choosing to adapt a story that has already been told and acted to the closest thing there is to perfection, the first game is so universally loved in large part due to Joel and Ellie that they absolutely needed to get the casting right to even come close to the game and I don't think they did.
The casting feels out of place and rushed, and at the risk of sparking political debate, Pedro Pascal simply doesn't fit Joel, at all, Joel is a scruffy, born and raised texan man with an a recognizable accent, his nickname is "Texas" for christ sakes, Pedro on the other hand is chilean with a very distinct accent of his own, so either he can pull off a mighty fine texan accent or they will have to retcon Joel's origins, it doesn't help at all that he can't grow a beard which is probably one of the most defining traits of Joel's appearance.

Bella being cast also surprised me for the same reasons you said, I'm surprised they didn't try to cast a POC actress but they clearly didn't want to cast someone who looked like Ellie either, and I'm also curious why they went with a young british actress, she'll need to pull off a proper american accent, otherwise I've only ever seen her in the dreadful final seasons of Game of Thrones and she was good there but as you said she doesn't strike me as Ellie, who is more of the innocent, dependent type in the first game, her face is very stern even for a child.

Overall just seems like rushed casting with Pascal being cast simply for his popularity, the people on twitter seem to love it and that is their target audience so hooray for them I guess, I on the other hand will simply peek at the show on youtube whenever it releases, I really have no plans to invest time in what will be an inferior adaptation of a story and characters that I love so dearly, I'm honestly tired of this fervent need to make everything live action, it's especially weird in this case when the games are pratically full fledged movies with gameplay thrown into the mix which actually elevates it as you're taking part in the journey and immersed in a way a movie doesn't provide, so yeah I guess whenever I want to expirience the story again I'll just replay the game and hope for a remake with the improved graphics, gameplay and character models of Part 2 or hell a Joel prequel game, so many possibilities with this franchise and they're wasting time on this show...

We're on the same page with all of this.

The thing that initially drew me to TLOU was the decaying, sparsely populated post apocalyptic world. It's something that's fascinated me since watching The Omega Man as a child. It's a world where you can go practically anywhere, take anything or do anything. Yet there's the constant threat from monsters and what other people still exist.

I naturally gravitate to films and series depicting this kind of world, and still keep up with the likes of The Walking Dead, Fear the Walking Dead, etc.

TLOU elevated the genre with the engaging characters of Ellie and Joel. I respect the risks they took with Part 2 to flesh out those characters and their brutal, tragic world, bringing repercussions for actions taken and taking it further in the direction of something like The Road.

If the series doesn't manage to capture the depth of the characters and their relationship then it will be simply be another walk through a decaying, dangerous landscape.

What's the point of this? The game is already a long movie. Just another case of the industry being creatively bankrupt, I suppose.

This, in essence, is why this series will have to really excel in terms of the characters. And it'll be an uphill struggle. The alternative would've been to tell other stories with different characters, though this might've become derivative of other series and films. Because at its core TLOU is about the relationship between Joel and Ellie, and how his rescue of her changed the course of their story so tragically.


I see the games as long movies or series, and kept three versions of the original, two running around six hours, and the Remastered over eleven hours.

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

We're on the same page with all of this.

The thing that initially drew me to TLOU was the decaying, sparsely populated post apocalyptic world. It's something that's fascinated me since watching The Omega Man as a child. It's a world where you can go practically anywhere, take anything or do anything. Yet there's the constant threat from monsters and what other people still exist.

I naturally gravitate to films and series depicting this kind of world, and still keep up with the likes of The Walking Dead, Fear the Walking Dead, etc.

TLOU elevated the genre with the engaging characters of Ellie and Joel. I respect the risks they took with Part 2 to flesh out those characters and their brutal, tragic world, bringing repercussions for actions taken and taking it further in the direction of something like The Road.

If the series doesn't manage to capture the depth of the characters and their relationship then it will be simply be another walk through a decaying, dangerous landscape.

I have no doubts HBO will provide the funds to bring the beautifully haunting apocalyptic world of the games to the small screen in full detail and scope, that is probably what interests me most at this point, and the potential pratical effects they'll use for the infected but as you said, we aren't only drawn to these scenarios because of the monsters in it but the people fighting them as well and their hardships.

Joel and Ellie and their journey seem like a simple concept, one might even say an unoriginal one but it was the chemistry of Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson and the execution of the story that truly put the game up there for everyone, you could've gotten anyone else to play these roles and it probably would not have worked as well as it did because of how much of themselves is in the characters, they are so closely connected that they don't simply portray them, they ARE Joel and Ellie and it is why the show was so off-putting to me from the start, especially coming right on the heels of the sequel and while I do not think they executed it properly I respect them for telling such a bold story.

That is what I think it'll be much to our disappointment, we'll see Pascal and Ramsey go through the same moments and story beats we did with these characters but that's all it'll be, a rehash of a great story with two different people on the screen, maybe they'll add some new scenes and change some others but there's really nothing new to do, especially taking into account your comments bellow.

This, in essence, is why this series will have to really excel in terms of the characters. And it'll be an uphill struggle. The alternative would've been to tell other stories with different characters, though this might've become derivative of other series and films. Because at it's core TLOU is about the relationship between Joel and Ellie, and how his rescue of her changed the course of their story so tragically.


I see the games as long movies or series, and kept three versions of the original, two running around six hours, and the Remastered over eleven hours.

The first game was a little over 15 hours long, the second game was 30 hours long and quite frankly it probably needed another 30 to be told properly, HBO episodes run about an hour with their seasons being around 10 hours, so what are they going to do with less time that needs to be so fervently done? Will they completely change the ending, arguably one of the best there is for a story? Will they change the fate of the characters? It would be an utter failure if they did, we've seen as much with adaptations that deviate so abruptly from the source material, The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones TV shows being great examples, so really what will the show improve upon? Joel and Ellie are already brilliant characters as they are, they didn't need new actors, the story of the first game was explored beautifuly and in stuble ways through gameplay, and let you take it all in as slow or fast as you wanted by being an interactive medium, while also fully immersing you with the characters and the world, so you're not simply watching them going through the apocalyptic landscape you're there with them, killing the monsters. So... what will the show do? It will have to rush the story as it has to be condensed to 10 hours, it will have to reach the same beats as the game, and will have to build up Joel and Ellie so they're not overshadowed by the game versions which is simply impossible if we're being honest.

This is why the show simply won't work, even having more time than a movie it still needs more to fully flesh out these characters, hell they'll certainly need more than 10 hours to adapt the second game. Either they drag the show on with several seasons, which won't work as Bella Ramsey is a growing young adult, or it'll be a one and done deal. In any case I don't think it'll be anywhere near what the first game was and is to this day and honestly live adaptations can **** off especially in cases such as this where the original isn't even a novel but basically an interactive movie, it just screams corporate cash grab to me, forced upon the masses by frauds who want money, this isn't a love project, as evident by the rushed casting, this isn't new, this isn't worthy of anybodys time, yet the general audiences and twitter will eat this hack job and probably enjoy it and that is what's so sad, how easily these great stories are whored down and milked down to the bone, The Last of Us has such a interesting world, and the first game honestly worked so well as it's own thing that you could probably create an equally compelling story with different characters, but at the end of the day money talks, awards talk, popularity talks, it's all business, where any creative intgrety that exists is thrown out the window for a quick buck and that's probably what sucks the most about this, that such a beautiful, one of a kind game and story with such iconic characters, will probably be milked to death due the creators creative bankruptcy and greed.

On the other hand there very likely will be HBO Joel and Ellie figures so people can enjoy that lol.

 

[chrisstbh]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

What's the point of this? The game is already a long movie. Just another case of the industry being creatively bankrupt, I suppose.

More people watch TV/Movies than play video games.

 

[ironwez20]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

The franchise pretty much killed itself with that crap sequel

 

[Asta]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

I have no doubts HBO will provide the funds to bring the beautifully haunting apocalyptic world of the games to the small screen in full detail and scope, that is probably what interests me most at this point, and the potential pratical effects they'll use for the infected but as you said, we aren't only drawn to these scenarios because of the monsters in it but the people fighting them as well and their hardships.

Joel and Ellie and their journey seem like a simple concept, one might even say an unoriginal one but it was the chemistry of Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson and the execution of the story that truly put the game up there for everyone, you could've gotten anyone else to play these roles and it probably would not have worked as well as it did because of how much of themselves is in the characters, they are so closely connected that they don't simply portray them, they ARE Joel and Ellie and it is why the show was so off-putting to me from the start, especially coming right on the heels of the sequel and while I do not think they executed it properly I respect them for telling such a bold story.

That is what I think it'll be much to our disappointment, we'll see Pascal and Ramsey go through the same moments and story beats we did with these characters but that's all it'll be, a rehash of a great story with two different people on the screen, maybe they'll add some new scenes and change some others but there's really nothing new to do, especially taking into account your comments bellow.




The first game was a little over 15 hours long, the second game was 30 hours long and quite frankly it probably needed another 30 to be told properly, HBO episodes run about an hour with their seasons being around 10 hours, so what are they going to do with less time that needs to be so fervently done? Will they completely change the ending, arguably one of the best there is for a story? Will they change the fate of the characters? It would be an utter failure if they did, we've seen as much with adaptations that deviate so abruptly from the source material, The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones TV shows being great examples, so really what will the show improve upon? Joel and Ellie are already brilliant characters as they are, they didn't need new actors, the story of the first game was explored beautifuly and in stuble ways through gameplay, and let you take it all in as slow or fast as you wanted by being an interactive medium, while also fully immersing you with the characters and the world, so you're not simply watching them going through the apocalyptic landscape you're there with them, killing the monsters. So... what will the show do? It will have to rush the story as it has to be condensed to 10 hours, it will have to reach the same beats as the game, and will have to build up Joel and Ellie so they're not overshadowed by the game versions which is simply impossible if we're being honest.

This is why the show simply won't work, even having more time than a movie it still needs more to fully flesh out these characters, hell they'll certainly need more than 10 hours to adapt the second game. Either they drag the show on with several seasons, which won't work as Bella Ramsey is a growing young adult, or it'll be a one and done deal. In any case I don't think it'll be anywhere near what the first game was and is to this day and honestly live adaptations can **** off especially in cases such as this where the original isn't even a novel but basically an interactive movie, it just screams corporate cash grab to me, forced upon the masses by frauds who want money, this isn't a love project, as evident by the rushed casting, this isn't new, this isn't worthy of anybodys time, yet the general audiences and twitter will eat this hack job and probably enjoy it and that is what's so sad, how easily these great stories are whored down and milked down to the bone, The Last of Us has such a interesting world, and the first game honestly worked so well as it's own thing that you could probably create an equally compelling story with different characters, but at the end of the day money talks, awards talk, popularity talks, it's all business, where any creative intgrety that exists is thrown out the window for a quick buck and that's probably what sucks the most about this, that such a beautiful, one of a kind game and story with such iconic characters, will probably be milked to death due the creators creative bankruptcy and greed.

On the other hand there very likely will be HBO Joel and Ellie figures so people can enjoy that lol.

And so it leaves me with that feeling of morbid curiosity. That nothing good will come of it, apart from possibility the journey itself.

The Walking Dead: World Beyond was largely panned, but I watched it for the journey. They actually did make one, whereas some seasons of The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead got bogged down in static situations. It also introduced a few new interesting varieties of zombie. The TLOU series will have its various Infected, which, if done well could be worthwhile to see.

IMDB has it down to air this year. Depending how much has actually be done on it so far, it doesn't seem long to capture the scope of the game's world. It feels like a vanity project, like it might be one of those Youtube fan videos of lookalikes filmed walking through the woods, except they won't actually look like the characters.

On the other hand there very likely will be HBO Joel and Ellie figures so people can enjoy that lol.

It may create an impetus for more 1/6 game versions. The CC Toys' figures are among the favourites in my varied collection. I have the Master Team and all the new CC Toys pre-ordered, and I'll take whatever's offered from the game.

More people watch TV/Movies than play video games.

This is no doubt true. I actually 'consumed' the game only as movies, plus the 'American Dreams' comic book and the two 'Art of' books.

It's a game that leant itself so well to the medium of film, as opposed to, for example, the Red Dead Redemption games which I can't get into.

The franchise pretty much killed itself with that crap sequel

On the contrary, I think it secured itself by refusing to be derivative. It was already evident in the manner of the ending of the original, where there was no simple right or wrong, heroism or villainy, but merely actions taken out of love regardless of the consequences.

Part II didn't shy away from those consequences, but doubled down on them. Two halves of a powerful, yet tragic story. It was a harrowing tale, in the manner of The Road. And it left me dwelling on it for some time after, which I regard as a success.

Nevertheless, it proved to be Marmite. A lot of people either hated it or loved it.

Interestingly though, as time has gone on the rating on IMDB has been going up.

 

[ironwez20]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

Meh I think they destroyed what made the franchise great. People don?t care about Abby, they care about Ellie and Joel . I don?t have a problem with how things played out with Joel it?s just how it was executed. I don?t believe the third game will get the same amount of hype and I still see people hating on it. Pretty much TLJ of the franchise.

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

And so it leaves me with that feeling of morbid curiosity. That nothing good will come of it, apart from possibility the journey itself.

The Walking Dead: World Beyond was largely panned, but I watched it for the journey. They actually did make one, whereas some seasons of The Walking Dead and Fear the Walking Dead got bogged down in static situations. It also introduced a few new interesting varieties of zombie. The TLOU series will have its various Infected, which, if done well could be worthwhile to see.

IMDB has it down to air this year. Depending how much has actually be done on it so far, it doesn't seem long to capture the scope of the game's world. It feels like a vanity project, like it might be one of those Youtube fan videos of lookalikes filmed walking through the woods, except they won't actually look like the characters.

To be honest The Walking Dead went to **** after the first few seasons, the comics went the same route as well but the show just got too invariable and nonsensical way too early on, especially with all the hallucinations, different time lines, "2deep4u2" dialogue and just being plagued by corporate decisions instead of creative ones, it did have it's stand out moments though, and some great characters and casting but overall it really was reduced to a shambling corpse, honoring the title.

As far as the HBO TLOU show I have my doubts it'll air this year, the scope of the game and the vistas are too demanding, unless they just do what you said and it basically becomes a reenacted fan-film of the game, which is probably what it'll be just with a high budget.

It may create an impetus for more 1/6 game versions. The CC Toys' figures are among the favourites in my varied collection. I have the Master Team and all the new CC Toys pre-ordered, and I'll take whatever's offered from the game.

I could see Threezero doing the HBO versions with the likes of Mcfarlane Toys doing 7 inch versions, it could possibly open the door for official figures of the games to be made, this is all if the show does well of course, given Pascal's current mainstream popularity I could definitely see people wanting a figure of him as a zombie killer more than video game Joel, but perhaps that's a better discussion for the video game figure board.

This is no doubt true. I actually 'consumed' the game only as movies, plus the 'American Dreams' comic book and the two 'Art of' books.

It's a game that leant itself so well to the medium of film, as opposed to, for example, the Red Dead Redemption games which I can't get into.

It can also be said that more people pirate these shows than actually pay to watch them, which makes the show all the more unecessary when you have several "movie" edits of the game completely free on Youtube, the game can already be consumed as a non-interactive piece of media much like a movie or show, it's probably why they chose to adapt it directly and not do something new, all the homework is done, they just need to turn the gameplay sections into scenes. Games like RDR and open-world games in general would be even more difficult to adapt because they are absolutely meant to be expirienced as games, while you can watch a movie edit of TLOU and get more or less the same expirience as you would playing it, a 60 hours long open-world game like RDR2 demands that commitment and engagement from the player unlike the more condensed and linear Naughty Dog games.

On the contrary, I think it secured itself by refusing to be derivative. It was already evident in the manner of the ending of the original, where there was no simple right or wrong, heroism or villainy, but merely actions taken out of love regardless of the consequences.

Part II didn't shy away from those consequences, but doubled down on them. Two halves of a powerful, yet tragic story. It was a harrowing tale, in the manner of The Road. And it left me dwelling on it for some time after, which I regard as a success.

Nevertheless, it proved to be Marmite. A lot of people either hated it or loved it.

Interestingly though, as time has gone on the rating on IMDB has been going up.

You and I both have different opinions on the second game, what I appreciate about this game, aside from the graphics and all that, is the discussions I'm able to have with people like you, wether we agree or not, it's more enjoyable to me to engage in this respectable and fun type of discourse than to be hurling insults at each other like I see pratically everywhere else, a rare thing indeed!

I also have to confess while I did not like the execution, the concept is very intriguing and had a lot of potential, it was splitting the game into two sections (to be like MGS2 as confirmed by Druckmann) and rushing every single arc in the game that left me utterly disappointed, they shouldn't have split the game right down the middle between these two characters, I believe that's what, funnily enough, split the entire fanbase down the middle as well, I also believe they needed more time, Nuaghty Dog likes to keep their games short but this story demanded way more time, I would've preferred a 60 hour long game that allowed the story and characters to breathe and progress in a more organic matter and didn't cut too much material rather than the rushed job we got.

At the end of the day I still have fun discussing it, I definitely prefer a game that propells me to have these interactions than something like the latest Tomb Raider games or CoD rip-offs that are just distractions for my ape brain.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

More people watch TV/Movies than play video games.

Yep, that would be me.


I have long been fascinated with the concept (and the fungus) for TLOU. I look forward to the show.

But that Bella girl is creepy to me. Wednesday Adams, yes, but...

 

[R_R_X]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

Meh I think they destroyed what made the franchise great. People don?t care about Abby, they care about Ellie and Joel . I don?t have a problem with how things played out with Joel it?s just how it was executed. I don?t believe the third game will get the same amount of hype and I still see people hating on it. Pretty much TLJ of the franchise.

Agreed.

Joel and Ellie are, or rather were, the heart of the title, and they were barely together in the second game, like you I'm fine with Joel's ending, I think it fits a character like him but dear lord the execution was poor, you don't send off an iconic character like that with a golf club to the head, and dumbing him down just to get him in the position to get golfed to death, a simple fix would be to have Abby and the wolves capture Tommy and use him to lure in Joel and then ambush him, and have Abby kill him with literally anything but a golf club, a machete, an axe, a crowbar would've all been better picks, or a simple shot to the head.

I think if they want to bring in disappointed fans back they absolutely need to bring Ellie back and close her story in a satisfying manner, with preferably a Joel flashback, TLOU2 feels like a soft reboot honestly, throwing Joel and Ellie under the bus and replacing them with lesser versions of themsleves in Abby and Lev, I mean Abby's arc is pratically the same one as Joel's with the parallels of Ellie and Lev being about as subtle as a brick to the face, I know they want to keep the games going with Abby but I hope they at least have the decency to make Part 3 Ellie's last game and close that story and then they can move forward with Abby games, better yet they should make a Joel prequel game, I would buy that in a heartbeat, instead they're wasting time on this unecessary show...

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Threads merged.

 

[R_R_X]

Threads merged.

Yeah sorry, I created a new one because the casting news would get buried under all the Mandalorian drama.

 

[ironwez20]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

Agreed.

Joel and Ellie are, or rather were, the heart of the title, and they were barely together in the second game, like you I'm fine with Joel's ending, I think it fits a character like him but dear lord the execution was poor, you don't send off an iconic character like that with a golf club to the head, and dumbing him down just to get him in the position to get golfed to death, a simple fix would be to have Abby and the wolves capture Tommy and use him to lure in Joel and then ambush him, and have Abby kill him with literally anything but a golf club, a machete, an axe, a crowbar would've all been better picks, or a simple shot to the head.

I think if they want to bring in disappointed fans back they absolutely need to bring Ellie back and close her story in a satisfying manner, with preferably a Joel flashback, TLOU2 feels like a soft reboot honestly, throwing Joel and Ellie under the bus and replacing them with lesser versions of themsleves in Abby and Lev, I mean Abby's arc is pratically the same one as Joel's with the parallels of Ellie and Lev being about as subtle as a brick to the face, I know they want to keep the games going with Abby but I hope they at least have the decency to make Part 3 Ellie's last game and close that story and then they can move forward with Abby games, better yet they should make a Joel prequel game, I would buy that in a heartbeat, instead they're wasting time on this unecessary show...

Damn I never thought of it that way. It does feel like a soft reboot.

The last game is great because it basically tell the player to stay hopeful even when times are dark and the relationship between Ellie and Joel grew so much that she would believe a lie so they wouldn?t fall apart .

The second game , everything is bleak and hopeless and all the characters you love lose. The strong bond they had before is now gone, and we are left with some poorly written buff chick and some rando girl. Meanwhile Ellie is the bad guy. Just a very bleak game that destroyed the franchise and its fan base. Gameplay was amazing tho. Very upsetting. And the fact that they lied about the story in the marketing says volumes. They knew what they were doing. I don?t mind Joel dying and new characters but man was that a terrible way to do it.

Man that ending is absolutely terrible. Basically ripping apart the connection Joel and Ellie had

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Yeah sorry, I created a new one because the casting news would get buried under all the Mandalorian drama.

No worries.

 

[Asta]

Re: HBO - The Last of Us - Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey cast as Joel and Ellie

To be honest The Walking Dead went to **** after the first few seasons, the comics went the same route as well but the show just got too invariable and nonsensical way too early on, especially with all the hallucinations, different time lines, "2deep4u2" dialogue and just being plagued by corporate decisions instead of creative ones, it did have it's stand out moments though, and some great characters and casting but overall it really was reduced to a shambling corpse, honoring the title.

The first time I watched TWD I was so tired I was having trouble staying awake, but wanted to keep watching anyway. I nodded off and woke at the point where the dead were swarming around the tank. In that weird realm between sleep and waking that image really struck me as horrific. I enjoyed the series until it began to become static and bogged down when the groups began to settle in communities. Because community is the end of journeying. I've stuck with it regardless. I actually began to prefer Fear the Walking Dead, apart from the barely watchable third season.

With a TLOU series I was looking forward to the journey, the creepy, lonely places, the sense of foreboding of what might be lurking.

You and I both have different opinions on the second game, what I appreciate about this game, aside from the graphics and all that, is the discussions I'm able to have with people like you, wether we agree or not, it's more enjoyable to me to engage in this respectable and fun type of discourse than to be hurling insults at each other like I see pratically everywhere else, a rare thing indeed!

I also have to confess while I did not like the execution, the concept is very intriguing and had a lot of potential, it was splitting the game into two sections (to be like MGS2 as confirmed by Druckmann) and rushing every single arc in the game that left me utterly disappointed, they shouldn't have split the game right down the middle between these two characters, I believe that's what, funnily enough, split the entire fanbase down the middle as well, I also believe they needed more time, Nuaghty Dog likes to keep their games short but this story demanded way more time, I would've preferred a 60 hour long game that allowed the story and characters to breathe and progress in a more organic matter and didn't cut too much material rather than the rushed job we got.

At the end of the day I still have fun discussing it, I definitely prefer a game that propells me to have these interactions than something like the latest Tomb Raider games or CoD rip-offs that are just distractions for my ape brain.

I completely understand the opposing viewpoint, and under other circumstances I could see myself on the other side of the fence. However, I felt the story so compelling, so brutal, so challenging. And those little clues about The Velveteen Rabbit, which was a sad tale in itself.

I wanted things to turn out well for these characters, but considering the complexities of the ending of TLOU I thought that would've been disingenuous. It would've been the easy way out. If TLOU2 had been that happy ever after type of resolution it wouldn't have maintained such a hold over me. It would've been just another post-apocalyptic tale. Joel and Ellie were flawed, human, and events changed them irrevocably. The ending to TLOU2 stayed with me, in spite of the simultaneous wish that these characters could've found another way forward.