Future of DC Films (DCEU)

[BoosterGold06]

I read they want to revitalize Superman so that gives me some hope...although it's more of a I'll believe it when I see it thing.

 

[jye4ever]

No crime in remaining hopeful about Snyder returning to WB for more of his DC universe.

Supposedly the BA reshoots involve Cavill!

 

[LIBBY1957DOG]

not sure if this is **** or shinola
but it sort of makes sense
your mileage may vary

 

[snoop101]

No crime in remaining hopeful about Snyder returning to WB for more of his DC universe.

Supposedly the BA reshoots involve Cavill!

Give us a knightmare league series on hbo max, and more Cavill Superman. We needs it.

 

[jye4ever]

Superman’s first flight in MOS equals the best the MCU has to offer which is a good thing nothing to get upset over.

 

[snoop101]

Man of Steel is severely underrated. It was the perfect launching point for a Superman who was just “getting started.” I’m honestly shocked WB hasn’t capitalized on that yet. Especially now when Cavill is more popular than ever. Just pay the man.

 

[JediJones]

Fantastic Beasts 3 is going to be the only IMAX movie for 3 weeks. It's a WB movie, and looks like it's not going to do that well at the box office. I can guarantee you, IMAX would rather have ZSJL play in IMAX on April 29th than a 3rd week of FB3. FB3 will be running on fumes by then. And switching to ZSJL would help WB's bottom line as well. But it's a little late now to announce it, with only 2 weeks to buy tickets in advance.

A theatrical release might make more business sense a year from now, in the lead up to The Flash. Since this is a movie that features Flash and Batfleck, returning in Flash. The schedule is pretty clear in April 2023 too. And it would be perfectly timed to coincide with Flash tickets going on sale next year.

Scott Mendelson of Forbes says The Batman will finish with a multiplier of x4.2 its budget + advertising which is darned good. So yeah, it‘s quite a success despite ending up in the $700Ms. BvS made like $105M but in all the articles that arrive at that figure they didn’t include something like $160M in product placement earning back much of the production budget before the film was even released. So BvS did okay but certainly not 4x it’s multi per, no. My point being a concession that The Batman was more financially successful, yes.

We don't really know yet how much profit The Batman will make. That $105m is AFTER 'participations' are removed, which can include payouts to DC Comics itself! This is Hollywood accounting. Forbes says Batman cost $185m, Variety says $200m, which changes the multiplier a bit. It's a 3.7x now on a $200m budget, BVS was 3.3x. Multiplier is not the key to profits. I can make a $10m budget film that makes $100m, a 10x multiplier, but that wouldn't mean it made more profit than BVS. It's VERY HARD to get a true number of how much a film profited. Tons of things come into it, including tax rebates and stuff. The studio simply doesn't want anyone to know how much profit was made. You can be sure the REAL profit on all these films is MUCH HIGHER than anyone ever thinks. The studios live to hide the numbers.

I hear you. A lot of folks on r/DC_Cinematic and Twitter did, though. They were very vocal about it when the movie released.

$900m was an exact median for where r/boxoffice thought The Batman would end up in early January. 458 votes, and this is a forum strictly for box office discussion and analysis, not fanboys for any particular movie. Only about 100 thought it would get under $800m (including me, my vote's in there!), where it will be ending.



Also, in early March, in a poll running across The Batman's opening weekend, 70% of them thought The Batman would outgross BVS in final gross, with 552 votes. Of course it fell well short of doing that.

 

[Alatar]

I will say that even if we don’t get the conclusion of Snyder’s five film saga, if we can get two more Henry Cavill solo Superman films that will salve that wound for me a fair bit.

Also if the rumors that David Zaslav loves the DC trinity are accurate, if we could somehow get a Henry Cavill Superman, Ben Affleck Batman, and Gal Gadot Wonder Woman trio film—regardless of who directs it—I would be over the moon about that.

 

[moose]

I will say that even if we don’t get the conclusion of Snyder’s five film saga, if we can get two more Henry Cavill solo Superman films that will salve that wound for me a fair bit.

Also if the rumors that David Zaslav loves the DC trinity are accurate, if we could somehow get a Henry Cavill Superman, Ben Affleck Batman, and Gal Gadot Wonder Woman trio film—regardless of who directs it—I would be over the moon about that.

What are their options realistically.

I think the synderverse and I am a huge fan will not continue as it has become divisive.

However the appetite for these characters will continue and perhaps a reboot is in the works.

There is no way they can see the success that marvel get with movies like spiderman no way home and not want to replicate that.

Despite the batman being a good movie it can not compete with a traditional comic movie that attracts children and it has merchandising angle has well. No 3 hour dark noir take on batman will ever be able to achieve that type of success.

I love MOS it's my favorite movie and my appetite for superman is sky high I just want to see a live action version justice league the cartoon on the big screen and you can't do it with this fragmented approach they currently have.

 

[jye4ever]

Zaslav’s first week and he already has to deal with Barry K getting arrested lol

 

[matticus]

What a sad state of affairs this clown show is in. What I would do to fix this mess is honestly to finish what has been started. Finish WW, Aquaman, Shazam trilogies. Finish the SnyderVerse with Knightmare series and a one and done JL movie. I'd be done with Ezra as you have completed The Flash. Let that be his last one. This will create some goodwill with current creators and future ones will know you will follow through. This is all really the SnyderVerse in some capacity, so let it naturally put itself to rest. Then build from the ground up on the next round and do it right.

 

[jye4ever]

What a sad state of affairs this clown show is in. What I would do to fix this mess is honestly to finish what has been started. Finish WW, Aquaman, Shazam trilogies. Finish the SnyderVerse with Knightmare series and a one and done JL movie. I'd be done with Ezra as you have completed The Flash. Let that be his last one. This will create some goodwill with current creators and future ones will know you will follow through. This is all really the SnyderVerse in some capacity, so let it naturally put itself to rest. Then build from the ground up on the next round and do it right.

Oh look common sense WB knows no such word lol

 

[matticus]

Oh look common sense WB knows no such word lol

I hope this Zavlav really delivers. Problem is, where do you start? I don't think you can quickly cleanse the DCEU overnight.

 

[moose]

I hope this Zavlav really delivers. Problem is, where do you start? I don't think you can quickly cleanse the DCEU overnight.

At this point a straight reboot is need I dont think they even have a plan post flash.

If the rumored leaks are true and it's a soft reboot I dont really know what next phase will be. With marvel you can see 2 or 3 years down the road in their presentations they show you the road map. DC lost that after the end of JL.

It's making it up as you go along with different people pitching their ideas, supergirl or black superman, no JL , maybe a wonder woman 3 possible GL show/ movie nobody knows anything.

So unless they let these movies finish their run and put the ground work for a reboot they will only have one of movies and nothing cohesive

The new CEO is not wrong when he mentioned they are under utilizing their characters like superman. Which has only been used in 3 movies unlike thor who marvel flexed in to 4 avengers movies and 4 solo movies. And goes for the other avengers multiple movies including solo movies . It's a farce what they have done with their proprties at this point they need to hire someone from marvel studios to right this ship give them the blue print.

Fine the dont have to be as dark as snyderverse or batman however I still want it to be taken seriously and none of that cheap humor that josh weden did.
I am stil invested in these characters and would love to see another JL movie even if involves a reboot and a few years

 

[Alatar]

Edit: The day after I posted this Mikey Sutton denied… well, possibly “clarified“ is a fairer word… that the DCEU is going to be entirely rebooted. That’s not what I heard sylabdul saying. But anyway, this is still worth a read because it makes sense for how they could proceed:

I watched sylabdul inc (YT) the other day and he was sharing what Mikey Sutton of Geekosity was telling him… which is of course still all just the scooper rumor mill, so take with the usual barrel of salt, etc…

Btw, I had it on in the background as I was attending to other tasks, so forgive me if I’ve embellished slightly, and added some of my own speculations. But basically if I understand correctly it was this:

• Current DCEU wraps in in 4 years, 2026, with a Final Crisis film. This will more or less be what Zack intended for JL3. Presumably directed by Snyder? He did tease it last Thanksgiving. Regardless, this is the grand finale. (Note: If Rebel Moon is a big hit, and with that franchise on the heels of ZSJL‘s success, then Zack will be riding high at that point.)
• After Final Crisis WBD starts DC from scratch with new actors in a MCU-like vertical design in which films, TV shows, and games are integrated in a cohesive, shared universe
• Cavill gets at least one more, if not 2, solo Superman films.
• If Ben Affleck wants to make his film or series on HBO Max he’s welcome to do so.
• All the current trilogies finish out—or the solo films conclude, at any rate, i.e., even if it’s at just two films instead of three. Bottom line: all the solo films have four years to wrap up.
• Snyderverse Knightmare, JL 2, is a miniseries on HBO Max.

This would make a lot of sense, if true. Too much money has already been invested to just scrap what has been filmed and in development already. But they want to start fresh also. Here most every fan gets what they want. Unless of course they want solely whatever their own niche interest is.

It also makes sense because the DC fandom would be incredibly hyped to see a MCU-style universe for their beloved characters. Snyder’s plan was never to mimic that when he launched the so-called DCEU. But I think it’s a safe bet that the majority of DC fans do want a cohesive and extensive shared DC universe a la the MCU. Even though the MCU has already done a shared universe, it hasn’t yet been done for the DC characters. There would be tremendous excitement about it. I’m positive of that.

There’s probably a way to give enough closure to what has already been started for all the current branches of the DCEU that no particular fan base will feel cheated. Or if they do they‘ll be a small disgruntled minority.

 

[matticus]

I do think finishing the current state of DC just makes sense. Too much built up, even if it is on shakey ground. But fans have gotten used to the current actors and it is best to finish their respective arcs then start fresh.

I do like the one offs like a Joker movie. Something outside of the box for a more "personal" or "time specific" film. From Marvel alone, who wouldn't want a grounded, high quality Punisher from the 70's that start in Vietnam? Maybe even an action 80's movie?

It would be smart though if you do have a current DC character in the newer DCEU, to not have some other version out there to water the character down. You want that character to be exclusive to maximize their film or show appearance. DC has what 3 Batman now? 2 Flashes, etc, etc.

The new DCEU doesn't need to be all serious, but not as jokey as the MCU. There is a better middle ground there that can use brighter and more cheerful optimism for their shows. They don't need to tread STD Leto Joker territory ever again.

Zaslav needs to hire a Feige-like that can bring some intelligence to DC and the overall direction it should head in. Not sure there are any experienced producers that can get in the weeds and tell another producer/director that this or that doesn't fit in with a specific character. Like this:

 

[Alatar]

The way I read the Variety article that dropped a few days ago is they want films, shows, games, comics, toys and other merch, etc., all to be cohesively connected in the way that the MCU has done. And by saying that they want a Kevin Feige business type what they mean is, first and foremost, they need someone that can coordinate and manage those different limbs harmoniously.

 

[JediJones]

It's easy for a 'scooper' to come up with LOGICAL plans based on what the fans would want. It's much harder for them to predict the out-of-left-field crap the ignoramuses at WB will actually come up with, like a Wonder Twins movie. I definitely do not believe that WB has a 4-year plan in place, nor that it would make as much logical sense as that.

We've seen how hard it is to adapt superheroes to the screen accurately. Feige and Snyder are basically the only ones who've been able to do a consistently good job of it this century, with great casting, good-looking costumes and reasonably faithful plots. Raimi also did fine with the Spider-Man movies, except when he tried to move out of 1960s Spider-Man, the only material he read growing up, and into the Venom story line.

DC immediately went off the rails as soon as Snyder left, with almost every new character cast extremely poorly. They appear to have only one consistent plan for DC, and that is to race-swap as many white characters as possible. They have a politically correct corporate edict based on a social agenda, not an agenda based on a love for the comic books and a desire to give the fans what they want. Some other directors can make good movies like the Nolan trilogy and Joker, but they're not comic-book accurate. X-Men was sometimes good, but rarely very accurate. Deadpool was their most accurate movie, and naturally was their most successful.

Bottom line, I don't think there's anyone else out there in Hollywood who will be able to adapt DC comics into movies well and accurately besides Snyder. There's nothing to look forward to unless he's running their universe.

It's also simply not true that he didn't have plans to run a complete DCEU shared universe. That sounds like a grifter, I mean a 'scooper,' trying to falsely represent reality in order to make his 'scoop' sound more plausible. He had many plans to produce films beyond just his 5 films, such as Affleck's Batman movie, a Batman & Robin TV series, introduction of Carrie Kelley, another Superman movie, a Ryan Choi Atom movie, likely something with John Stewart and the Green Lanterns. And he would have been able to fit in these other ideas that came up like the Amazons movie. The Snyders were producing all the spinoffs while they were there, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman. That would have continued. It doesn't rule out that Affleck's Batman might have been 'retired,' but that's no different than MCU retiring Iron Man, Widow or Cap. Flashback movies could still be done, and a new generation could step in to fill those characters' shoes. Bruce Wayne is the least relatable aspect of Batman, so having someone else inherit the mantle could be quite marketable.

Zaslav needs to hire a Feige-like that can bring some intelligence to DC and the overall direction it should head in. Not sure there are any experienced producers that can get in the weeds and tell another producer/director that this or that doesn't fit in with a specific character. Like this:

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly and wholeheartedly. Superman's goal is to save lives, and the way you save lives sometimes is by killing murderers. Superman killed General Zod in Superman II. He killed him in John Byrne's 1980s comics. Snyder's portrayal of Superman killing Zod was 100% accurate, traditional and faithful to the character. And, in fact, much softer than those past two examples, because it was purely defensive. These two examples are pre-meditated executions of a Zod who has already had his powers taken away. But if the scene is brightly lit and there's joyful music playing, then I guess the killing is okay?

 

[Alatar]

It's also simply not true that he didn't have plans to run a complete DCEU shared universe. That sounds like a grifter, I mean a 'scooper,' trying to falsely represent reality in order to make his 'scoop' sound more plausible. He had many plans to produce films beyond just his 5 films, such as Affleck's Batman movie, a Batman & Robin TV series, introduction of Carrie Kelley, another Superman movie, a Ryan Choi Atom movie, likely something with John Stewart and the Green Lanterns. And he would have been able to fit in these other ideas that came up like the Amazons movie. The Snyders were producing all the spinoffs while they were there, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, Aquaman. That would have continued. It doesn't rule out that Affleck's Batman might have been 'retired,' but that's no different than MCU retiring Iron Man, Widow or Cap. Flashback movies could still be done, and a new generation could step in to fill those characters' shoes. Bruce Wayne is the least relatable aspect of Batman, so having someone else inherit the mantle could be quite marketable.

That doesn’t come from Mikey Sutton (who may well be a grifter, it’s probably more likely than not)I but rather the narrative that has emerged over time, but not for no reason best I can see. I do recall sometime in 2016 reading an interview with Zack in which he talked about the WB execs at the time actually being giddy about a grand, master plan of interconnectivity between films Snyder and the creative team had mapped out. The idea was that each director would have their own creative sandbox, but that as long as the basic plot threads were respected they could so whatever they wanted. That was the basic idea, as I recall reading about it in the early years.

I think once BvS got panned and the studio abandoned Snyder’s vision, that’s when he revised it to just completing his own 5 film saga, and no longer being concerned about any sort of interconnectivity. Like the studio had abandoned it.

But for a brief moment after BvS we got an inkling of how things might have been developed. It seemed to me that Suicide Squad was doubling down on the theme that Snyder introduced with LexCorp of the military industrial complex being an inherently bad actor with regard to metahumans. Like if such things as superpowers existed in the real world the military would misuse them terribly. And in that sense Jonathan Kent was totally right to be worried about the military getting its hands on young Clark—yes, maybe even to the point of letting a bus of school children drown. Or letting himself be killed by a tornado when Clark could have rescued him (which was terrible judgment on Jonathan’s part in the moment, but people make bad judgments all the time that have terrible consequences to them, etc.) Anyway, Ayer was also opening up the paranormal side to the metahuman phenomenon with ancient gods, portals to other dimensions, and so forth. It’s interesting that with the death of Superman there too we saw that some of the entities that had been lurking in the shadows were feeling emboldened. With Superman dead it delayed the whole issue of Superman having no natural defenses against “magic.” In other words if the threat of the duo of gods was there when Superman was alive, we might have gotten to see Superman get his ass handed to him. But I think Snyder as saving that for further down the road.

But anyway, I think likely both things are true. Snyder did have a grand plan originally. But once BvS got panned by the critics all those plans were dashed.

 

[Alatar]

Zaslav needs to hire a Feige-like that can bring some intelligence to DC and the overall direction it should head in. Not sure there are any experienced producers that can get in the weeds and tell another producer/director that this or that doesn't fit in with a specific character. Like this:

Did you mean a more serious take on the superheroes and their mythology? I hope so! And I’m sincerely asking since what you said can be interpreted that way. Like if you have a relatively serious take at the baseline then too bright, light-hearted, and comedic isn’t always going to mesh well?

Or did you mean this is too serious a take for the GA?