Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[T8OO]

Ant man 3 was ripped to shreds. No idea what Secret Headquarters is like so hard to say but based on images I get when googling it I thonk it has potential to be ripped into almost as much.

Sure it may have the potential based on the quality of the movie itself. I'm talking about the difference between them and if the same amount of effort would be put into tearing it down. I say not.

 

[Alatar]

And once again you've missed the point entirely.

You are, by all means, entitled to your opinions and free to express them as tirelessly as you want - but stop telling everyone else they opinion is wrong or bias or whatever conspiracy theory hive-mind delusion you're going on about.

I never said... and I haven't seen anyone other supporter of the film in this thread say... that's its an organized conspiracy. That's y'alls narrative projected onto us!

Snyder's style is undeniably polarizing, that's a hard fact. I'm actually fascinated about possible reasons why... which kind of have to be speculative in nature, by definition... and I have proposed a possible explanation about how symbolic images theoretically work (I mean, if you disagree no worries, but take that up with Carl Gustavus Jung and Joseph Campbell!). The Lord of the Flies comment was glib, but it gets at a primal human instinct that we obviously witness all the time in the world, and it shows up in all sorts of ways. It's not surprising that it would for a film like this. It's never fully conscious when it happens.

Again, please step back for a moment and look soberly at what doing here. I'll summarize:

Dislikers and haters: The objective fact is that Rebel Moon is just "bad storytelling/filmmaking."

Me: No, I do not experience it that way at all. I personally experience in fact as good filmmaking and here's why. And I do see a broad phenomenon out there in the polarized experience of the film where there is a kind of (mostly unconscious) piling on by those that see it as "bad." That's what I see.

Dislikers and haters: You can't do that! You're invalidating our experience!

I mean come on dude.

 

[Alatar]

I think it already had a director's cut (unless you know that and are simply declaring the existing one as being good, lol.)

Sucker Punch has never gotten a director's cut. Snyder has recently said that he wants to brings the cast back to film the ending he always wanted to make but that the studio nixed at the time. He wants to release a director's cut for it.

Tbh, from what Zack described of it I don't think the new ending will convert people that already dislike that film, or his style and work in general. It feels similar to the 3:02 Ultimate Edition cut of BvS being a much better film for sure. Luthor's machinations and Lois's investigation into it make much better sense. But it doesn't fix the things that most people hate about BvS, which is mainly the story's deconstructive elements. I think it'll be the same thing with Sucker Punch, for what he's trying to do with that film. But it may scratch an important itch for him as an artist. I'm not very into the film, but I admit that I'm fascinated to see it as he fully intended.

 

[Kebron]

Sure it may have the potential based on the quality of the movie itself. I'm talking about the difference between them and if the same amount of effort would be put into tearing it down. I say not.

Is Rebel Moon an new IP? Yes Is it a low profile little marketed IP made by a director most have not heard of? No

If Secret Headquarters was highly publicized, had a well known director, and it was posted all over media saying that this was that director's answer or pitch to the MCU. Then yeah it would of been posted here and it would of been lambasted.

 

[Kebron]

I never said... and I haven't seen anyone other supporter of the film in this thread say... that's its an organized conspiracy. That's y'alls narrative projected onto us!

While you haven't specifically said "organized conspiracy". You certainly do walk the line with the following statements.

Yeah, there's a lot of denial about this in my opinion as well. Each person that bashes it has their own conscience to reckon with regarding a possible Snyder hate bias and jumping on a groupthink bandwagon sort of phenomenon. Well, if they even care, lol. I'm sure most won't. But this is a "if the shoe fits" sort of thing. It's not for me to say what goes on in other people's minds. But I can detect a broad bias phenomenon out there for sure.

I'm pretty certain that by almost any other director today Rebel Moon would not be getting savaged in this way. It's almost impossible to say that there is an objective way to measure this sort of thing... no way I can think of that could give us strong consensus of reliable measure.

Dislikers and haters: The objective fact is that Rebel Moon is just "bad storytelling/filmmaking."

Me: No, I do not experience it that way at all. I personally experience in fact as good filmmaking and here's why. And I do see a broad phenomenon out there in the polarized experience of the film where there is a kind of (mostly unconscious) piling on by those that see it as "bad." That's what I see.

Dislikers and haters: You can't do that! You're invalidating our experience!

I mean come on dude.

And that's as far back as I was willing to look which is like 3 pages. You've made other similar type statements.

 

[The Buffinator]

Sucker Punch has never gotten a director's cut. Snyder has recently said that he wants to brings the cast back to film the ending he always wanted to make but that the studio nixed at the time. He wants to release a director's cut for it.

Tbh, from what Zack described of it I don't think the new ending will convert people that already dislike that film, or his style and work in general. It feels similar to the 3:02 Ultimate Edition cut of BvS being a much better film for sure. Luthor's machinations and Lois's investigation into it make much better sense. But it doesn't fix the things that most people hate about BvS, which is mainly the story's deconstructive elements. I think it'll be the same thing with Sucker Punch, for what he's trying to do with that film. But it may scratch an important itch for him as an artist. I'm not very into the film, but I admit that I'm fascinated to see it as he fully intended.

Well it has a PG-13 theatrical cut and then the R-rated extended cut which added @20 minutes of content. I don't think anyone's going to finance bringing together the cast from a 13-year-old, run-of-the-mill movie so he can further fulfill his "true" artistic vision. Hell, the CGI alone to make the cast look as they did in 2011 would be cost prohibitive. If he hasn't already filmed most of what he wants to add (like the ZSJL situation) it's never going to happen. Not to single out Snyder (a lot of directors share this flaw), but he really needs to learn how to stick a fork in it and move on. I think a big reason why some people get turned off by ZS is the perception that he continues to play the tortured genius/victim card and how every movie he releases into the world really isn't the one he wanted to make but a compromise with the studio. Well hey, that's how the movie industry and the world works. He should either accept that or launch his own independent studio where he makes the rules...and takes the financial risks.

 

[T8OO]

Is Rebel Moon an new IP? Yes Is it a low profile little marketed IP made by a director most have not heard of? No

If Secret Headquarters was highly publicized, had a well known director, and it was posted all over media saying that this was that director's answer or pitch to the MCU. Then yeah it would of been posted here and it would of been lambasted.

I'm not saying it wouldn't. I'm saying nowhere near as much.

 

[ironwez20]

I'm not saying it wouldn't. I'm saying nowhere near as much.

Because nobody knows about it to the extent of rebel moon. Nobody knew about it here until you said something

 

[T8OO]

Well it has a PG-13 theatrical cut and then the R-rated extended cut which added @20 minutes of content. I don't think anyone's going to finance bringing together the cast from a 13-year-old, run-of-the-mill movie so he can further fulfill his "true" artistic vision. Hell, the CGI alone to make the cast look as they did in 2011 would be cost prohibitive. If he hasn't already filmed most of what he wants to add (like the ZSJL situation) it's never going to happen. Not to single out Snyder (a lot of directors share this flaw), but he really needs to learn how to stick a fork in it and move on. I think a big reason why some people get turned off by ZS is the perception that he continues to play the tortured genius/victim card and how every movie he releases into the world really isn't the one he wanted to make but a compromise with the studio. Well hey, that's how the movie industry and the world works. He should either accept that or launch his own independent studio where he makes the rules...and takes the financial risks.

Who's saying the cast would be deaged? How do you know they wouldn't do it for free?
Other than ZSJL none of the other projects suggest anything but fair play with the studios.
I think people read so much more into it than they do any other directors cuts.

Why do you care?

 

[T8OO]

Because nobody knows about it to the extent of rebel moon. Nobody knew about it here until you said something

That doesn't change my point over something with a huge long time following and not.

 

[ironwez20]

That doesn't change my point over something with a huge long time following and not.

But you said that the new movie isn’t getting blasted like rebel moon is. When rebel moon is more well known then the movie you stated. So which is it exactly?

 

[Kebron]

I'm not saying it wouldn't. I'm saying nowhere near as much.

You don't know that.

People here lambasted Avatar 2, Andor, and TG Maverick, when they were announced. Then when it came out they sung its praises, cause it was good.

Generally, if a movie or show is good people here come around from the initial hate and crap they gave it when everyone was just running on assumptions. Yes you have some hardliners who cant admit they were wrong, but for the most part people here tend to be fair in the end.

 

[Kebron]

That doesn't change my point over something with a huge long time following and not.

Yes it does, because you are comparing apples to oranges and stating a opinion as fact.

One is a still news, highly advertised movie made by well-known director. The other is a 2 year old movie not advertised and buried on a third tiered streaming platform with a director no one has heard of.

And "predicting" how people here will act to a hypothetical situation isn't a fact as you are trying to present it. Fact is you don't know how people would of reacted if Secret Headquarters had better advertising, made by a known director, and was on Netflix.

 

[Kebron]

But you said that the new movie isn’t getting blasted like rebel moon is. When rebel moon is more well known then the movie you stated. So which is it exactly?

It's not even a new movie. Secret Headquarters is two years old.

 

[Kebron]

Well it has a PG-13 theatrical cut and then the R-rated extended cut which added @20 minutes of content. I don't think anyone's going to finance bringing together the cast from a 13-year-old, run-of-the-mill movie so he can further fulfill his "true" artistic vision. Hell, the CGI alone to make the cast look as they did in 2011 would be cost prohibitive. If he hasn't already filmed most of what he wants to add (like the ZSJL situation) it's never going to happen. Not to single out Snyder (a lot of directors share this flaw), but he really needs to learn how to stick a fork in it and move on. I think a big reason why some people get turned off by ZS is the perception that he continues to play the tortured genius/victim card and how every movie he releases into the world really isn't the one he wanted to make but a compromise with the studio. Well hey, that's how the movie industry and the world works. He should either accept that or launch his own independent studio where he makes the rules...and takes the financial risks.

To be fair Ridley Scott kind of does this too. A good chunk of his films have director cuts, not to mention multiple cuts like Blade Runner.

 

[ironwez20]

It's not even a new movie. Secret Headquarters is two years old.

lol then is his argument falls even flatter.

 

[The Buffinator]

Who's saying the cast would be deaged? How do you know they wouldn't do it for free?
Other than ZSJL none of the other projects suggest anything but fair play with the studios.
I think people read so much more into it than they do any other directors cuts.

Why do you care?

True, I'm making an assumption about the de-aging but it's blatantly obvious that after that length of time people are going to look different. Abbie Cornish was in the most recent season of Jack Ryan and she's changed quite a bit from her Sweet Pea days. Time marches on for everyone. And regardless of whether "they" (the actors?) do it for free, bottom line someone, somewhere will need to be paid to make it happen. Many someones, in fact. No one in that business does anything strictly out of the goodness of their hearts. Also, I DID say that Snyder wasn't alone among directors in doing this (Ridley Scott is another as Kebron has pointed out), I was just citing it as one reason ZS can turn people off. As a fan of the genres he frequents perhaps I just hear more about his director's cuts (or he's using social media more to drum up support)?

As for "why I care", I'm not a Snyderette but I have enjoyed some of his movies in the past (Watchmen, 300, MoS) so I don't just write his stuff off. As I've said, he makes movies in the genres I like so if it's a film that looks like it has potential I'm going to check it out. But frankly, recently I've found his thought process quite baffling. It's fine that he has another, longer cut of Rebel Moon coming in the Spring, but WTF did he announce that before the first version drops on Netflix? All that did was annoy the majority of the target audience, unless he only views his diehard fans as the target audience. Somehow I don't think Netflix would agree with that. It seems to me that dropping the PG-13 and R versions simultaneously would have been a better call - his complete, true vision is available for critics to see (if it's truly a better version, the ratings might improve as well) and viewers can pick which one they want to see (or allow their children to see).

 

[dawson85tr]

It’s extremely boring and waste of time that’s all summarize

 

[T8OO]

But you said that the new movie isn’t getting blasted like rebel moon is. When rebel moon is more well known then the movie you stated. So which is it exactly?

You seem to be stuck on my example. Maybe it was a poor example.
Previous movies in the same universe create way more connection to the viewer than ones that don't.

 

[T8OO]

You don't know that.

People here lambasted Avatar 2, Andor, and TG Maverick, when they were announced. Then when it came out they sung its praises, cause it was good.

Generally, if a movie or show is good people here come around from the initial hate and crap they gave it when everyone was just running on assumptions. Yes you have some hardliners who cant admit they were wrong, but for the most part people here tend to be fair in the end.

All of these are examples of content that have huge in built fan bases.