The Batman (June 25, 2021)

[snoop101]

The more I watch this, the more I like Catwoman.

I’d rather have Michelle Pfeiffer.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I’d rather have Michelle Pfeiffer.

I dunno, Zoe is feisty and fights back.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Poison ivy could work as a poison specialist who uses plants to manipulate and poison people. I think it could work with her bringing plants to life.

Plants that move -- in the sense that they eat you, strangle you, or grab you in any way that you can't break away -- I just don't buy. So her whole gimmick is undermined in a more realistic live-action movie.

What good is Freeze without the cold -- what good is Ivy without her plants?

 

[Hando]

Also, simply having an icy Gotham at winter would help the atmosphere.

We need more batman and snow

 

[lordnastrond]

We need more batman and snow

This is making me want a Batman Noel film somewhere down the line.
Also making me want to rewatch Batman Returns....

 

[Wor-Gar]

I wouldn't be surprised if the next The Batman took place during winter. The first one seemed warm with the constant red colors.

Now whether Freeze is in it though, I doubt he's first choice to go with Joker.

Maybe it will be fall -- dead leaves, pumpkins, all that mood for the Joker... and winter will be the 3rd film.

 

[lordnastrond]

Is the sequels villain Joker?
I was hoping for Scarecrow personally.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Pretty sure it is Joker... but certainly another villain will show up as well, plus the Penguin as always.

The Batman: Riddler, Catwoman, Penguin
The Batman II: Joker, ????, Penguin

 

[batfan08]

I agree... but I would like Freeze a little more grounded than they have done before.

No way I want him to be a serial killer in an ice truck. That's way too pedestrian.

Keep the bubbleboy suit to control his body temp, thus giving him his Goldfinger-esque fascination with Cold. Coldfinger. I'm not sure about a "freeze ray". That's where it gets too silly. I'm sure there's something more realistic yet better than just a fire extinguisher. Also, simply having an icy Gotham at winter would help the atmosphere.

The fantasy level that I don't want to see is Killer Croc or Clayface or Firefly on a jetpack or even Poison Ivy. Without her man-eating plants and octopus vines, she's really not interesting if devolved into an eco-terrorist who uses poison. The get-up is 90% of what makes her interesting, sadly. I know, ironwez and I diverge from agreement here.

I feel like every single one of those characters can be terrifying and interesting if done right. Poison Ivy for instance? Someone who can overwrite your own sense of agency and manipulate you into doing what they want? Just imagine some guy leaving this stunning red head sitting in a cheap motel room before walking into an office building and taking a meeting with some rich CEO who’s been polluting the water in low-income communities or some ****. No history of mental illness, no criminal record; in fact? He, himself, is some CEO fine fellow. So, he goes up to the guy in the middle of a board room full of lawyers and a Board of Directors and just…starts shooting until the gun’s empty. Then, without a second thought, he throws a chair through a window and jumps.

And Batman has to figure out why this stuff’s happening and how it’s happening. I have a whole take on Firefly that could work, too.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I feel like every single one of those characters can be terrifying and interesting if done right. Poison Ivy for instance? Someone who can overwrite your own sense of agency and manipulate you into doing what they want? Just imagine some guy leaving this stunning red head sitting in a cheap motel room before walking into an office building and taking a meeting with some rich CEO who’s been polluting the water in low-income communities or some ****. No history of mental illness, no criminal record; in fact? He, himself, is some CEO fine fellow. So, he goes up to the guy in the middle of a board room full of lawyers and a Board of Directors and just…starts shooting until the gun’s empty. Then, without a second thought, he throws a chair through a window and jumps.

I've seen that before somewhere, but besides that it is not uniquely Poison Ivy. Madhatter could do that plot. Ventriloquist. Hypnotist. Hugo Strange. Any mind-control madman.

 

[batfan08]

I've seen that before somewhere, but besides that it is not uniquely Poison Ivy. Madhatter could do that plot. Ventriloquist. Hypnotist. Hugo Strange. Any mind-control madman.

I guess my point is there are angles you could look at the character from. Greek Mythology and the Sirens’ Song coupled with some old school Swamp Thing/Cronenberg body horror when it comes to what she can do with plants and you can make it fit. I genuinely believe the only thing that prevents you from finding an authentic way to mesh the real with the surreal is a lack of creativity and trust in yourself. Zodiac Killer Riddler works because Riddler’s always been an intellectual foil for Batman and not one of his superpowered rogues. That’s not to say they can’t exist in that same universe.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I genuinely believe the only thing that prevents you from finding an authentic way to mesh the real with the surreal is a lack of creativity and trust in yourself.

I guess my point is there are angles you could look at the character from.

Of course... but its finding that right idea that's key. Sometimes, the base idea of a comic book villain is just so juvenile its better to move on to a broader source.

 

[Hando]

I guess my point is there are angles you could look at the character from. Greek Mythology and the Sirens’ Song coupled with some old school Swamp Thing/Cronenberg body horror when it comes to what she can do with plants and you can make it fit. I genuinely believe the only thing that prevents you from finding an authentic way to mesh the real with the surreal is a lack of creativity and trust in yourself. Zodiac Killer Riddler works because Riddler’s always been an intellectual foil for Batman and not one of his superpowered rogues. That’s not to say they can’t exist in that same universe.

Im not saying they cant. But I dont think they will. I dont think this is what they are going for at all fromm listening to the interviews and everything. Whatever the next villain will be they will try to ground him

 

[batfan08]

Of course... but its finding that right idea that's key. Sometimes, the base idea of a comic book villain is just so juvenile its better to move on to a broader source.

Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying you aren’t creative and don’t trust yourself. I was saying as a filmmaker, you can find a way to make Clayface work without it no longer being Clayface.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying you aren’t creative and don’t trust yourself. I was saying as a filmmaker, you can find a way to make Clayface work without it no longer being Clayface.

Oh, I thought that was an odd thing to say.

I think solving Poison Ivy is way easier than solving Clayface. Him and Manbat are the hardest to buy in real life (even surreal real life). I mean, you have to believe in monsters to buy Manbat... and you have to believe in "magic" to believe in a human biology that can melt on will like wax. Maybe if you were to give Clayface masks -- but then he's not Clayface.

My point is, the underlying gimmick of a character can be realistic at its base or complete fantasy. I don't care for 'fantasy' based villains in Batman live-action mainly because you have to undermine their character so much to make them believable that they become a different thing entirely. It is easy to make a real-world excuse for Dent's gimmick deformity... it is much harder to make an excuse for Clayface.

 

[ironwez20]

Plants that move -- in the sense that they eat you, strangle you, or grab you in any way that you can't break away -- I just don't buy. So her whole gimmick is undermined in a more realistic live-action movie.

What good is Freeze without the cold -- what good is Ivy without her plants?

She can use different poison from plants and different toxins to poison people . Plants can be very deadly. They can totally rewrite her character as a eco terrorist . The moving plants is silly

 

[Wor-Gar]

She can use different poison from plants and different toxins to poison people . Plants can be very deadly. They can totally rewrite her character as a eco terrorist . The moving plants is silly

Yes, the exo-terrorist has been pitched a million times. But its just not that interesting, it's just not Poison Ivy. She's no different than Dr. Poison in Wonder Woman. You really can't separate the "wild plants" from Poison Ivy. Having them as a base for poisons... well, fine that's her thing anyway so it adds nothing.

I can't believe so many of you are hung up on Poison Ivy. Ah, adolescence. You guys know its because she's sexy that she had such an impact on you, right? Not her "character".

 

[Hando]

They should do calendar man for the sequel

 

[Wor-Gar]

Whatever happened to Mr. and Mrs. Fogg?

See, some ideas just aren't worth the time...

 

[batfan08]

Oh, I thought that was an odd thing to say.

I think solving Poison Ivy is way easier than solving Clayface. Him and Manbat are the hardest to buy in real life (even surreal real life). I mean, you have to believe in monsters to buy Manbat... and you have to believe in "magic" to believe in a human biology that can melt on will like wax. Maybe if you were to give Clayface masks -- but then he's not Clayface.

My point is, the underlying gimmick of a character can be realistic at its base or complete fantasy. I don't care for 'fantasy' based villains in Batman live-action mainly because you have to undermine their character so much to make them believable that they become a different thing entirely. It is easy to make a real-world excuse for Dent's gimmick deformity... it is much harder to make an excuse for Clayface.

I guess for me it becomes less a matter of “making them fit into the real world” and more a matter of “making the real world fit them.” The Long Halloween is quintessential Batman. It’s a murder mystery, a Godfather pastiche, and a Batman story all rolled into one…and it’s got Scarecrow and Mad Hatter riding a horse drawn carriage and wreaking havoc on Halloween, Joker flying away from the Holiday from Hell he created on Christmas in a Biplane, and Solomon Grundy lurking in the sewers beneath Gotham.

We have the technology now that you can make all that **** a reality and, with the right perspective, make it horrifying. That’s what Gotham Central did so wonderfully. It didn’t ask you “why is there a Clay man who can absorb me until I suffocate inside him in front of me?” It threw you into that situation and said “okay. I’m a regular beat Cop. How the **** am I going to deal with having a Clay man who can absorb me until I suffocate inside him in front of me?”

I think that’s where suspension of disbelief has almost become a hindrance. Because I don’t think you need Zack Snyder to do some edge lord deconstruction in order to make these characters work, nor do I think you have to “ground” everything fantastical about them. I just think you need to have the tenacity to commit to all of it as sort of a thought experiment and say “it doesn’t matter how we got here. It doesn’t matter why this thing exists; what matters is that it does…and that its existence will horrify you.”