Star Wars: Ahsoka

[The Buffinator]

Spoiler:

That would just create a different set of problems, though.

In the past, the WBW was shown to be a realm that needed to be opened to the living person. Ezra had to open a portal himself to access it, and Ahsoka had to be pulled in. If Ahsoka is *actually* in the WBW again, and not merely having a hallucination, then she would have needed to get pulled in. By whom? Or by what?

An afterlife version of Anakin is part of the Force itself. Whether it was afterlife Anakin, or the Force itself in a more general sense, there are so many problematic implications either way. To me, that'd be such a massive cheat that would also undermine any sense of free will implied in previous Star Wars.

What this would do is mean that no one's greater destiny can be avoided because "the Force" has bigger plans for everybody. Everything can be controlled or manipulated from another realm. If so, what have we been watching? Luke would've had no possible role other than to ultimately redeem his father if the Force deemed that to be his greater destiny. Everything would be predetermined. The same goes for every other Jedi involved in major events. If they are in peril, it's up to "The Force" as to whether or not to save them in service of their destiny. It'd be such a self-limiting direction to take the storytelling.

If they've brought the WBW back in this way, the plot logic is going to be (justifiably) torn to absolute shreds in such a way that you'd have to willfully ignore so many unavoidable consequences in order to stay invested in the stories. Anything other than a vision/hallucination is going to turn live-action SW upside down.

Yeah, it's been too long since I watched the Rebels WBW episodes so I'm rather hazy on the admission requirements. Maybe since she was brought in once before she has an all access pass now? Regardless I'm not going to lose any sleep over it...

I appreciate how you're reconciling it, but just read your own words to see the contradictions being necessitated:

"Anakin says he didn't expect to see her so soon it implies that he didn't expect her to have died yet."

Is Ahsoka's death predetermined or not? Does afterlife Anakin (consciousness residing in the WBW) know when she's supposed to die? If so, how could he ever be "surprised" to see Ahsoka in the WBW at any time in her life if her destiny has been predetermined?

And I disagree about how "will of the Force" has been a part of SW before. It was never explicitly defined as a reality of predetermined *and unavoidable* destinies until the WBW plot device. If Ezra wasn't changing the past when he pulled Ahsoka out of the Vader duel, then everything is fatalistic in SW. But at least the animated series can be interpreted more loosely than live action.

More to the point, if the WBW exists outside of space and time and that's where Anakin is then he shouldn't be aware of the passage of time lol...

 

[chrisstbh]

Renew? After one apparently half-decent episode? I think you overestimate their chances....

Whole show has been great so far and this episode was 10/10 Star Wars content.

 

[The Buffinator]

Spoiler:

I'm not watching this show.

And what's all this talk about "pulling out"...?

 

[ironwez20]

Whole show has been great so far and this episode was 10/10 Star Wars content.

10/10 Star Wars content means different things to alot of people lol .
For instance.
Going back to no colored lightsabers or pt references and less jedi is 10/10 content for some fans

 

[RavenAsh]

Really really liked this episode! I thought the way connection/potential loss of that connection played into every single character's journey this episode was really fun to watch. I think Filoni has a pretty good handle on the thematic qualities he's trying to impart with the two master/apprentice relationships we've seen so far.

Here's some of my thoughts on that if you're interested in reading...

Spoiler:

All four of the main forcewielders in the show have conflicts to do with attachment, which highlights their flaws and what makes them interesting honestly.
-Shin goes to Baylan while he's fighting Ahsoka because of the fear of the loss of her master. I think the editing, and leaving her saber behind showed how much of a reactive and emotional action it was. Even the force choke of sabine you can connect to that risk of what keeping an enemy alive could mean. I'm more convinced than ever that if Baylan dies, she’ll go full dark side. There's no way she'd be able to process that grief. She even seemed to have a really fearful reaction to Marrok of all people dying who was LITERAL SMOKE. They held on that reaction for a long time to show that she just has a lot of emotional immaturity to her. That inability to deal with her emotions brings fear to the forefront even in these conflict situations where she's mostly seemed disassociated.
-Ahsoka force pushes Shin in the fear of losing her apprentice, which is absolutely a trauma response. She becomes completely unbalanced because of that potential loss of her padawan. She’s lost too much over the decades of her life. What does she even have left? She’s fighting to stop a war but for what? For who? Her connection has just been lost to Sabine, just as she lost Anakin. Her regrets are controlling her and lead her to her end here. I'm not thrilled with the decision to essentially 'kill' her, but it's a powerful one nevertheless and should give some really interesting content in Episode 5 for her character.
-Baylan unloads on ahsoka, completely tapping into the dark side when she attacks his apprentice (doesnt even matter if they’re blood related, this is definitely father/daughter stuff they’re playing at). That relationship is much different than Ahsoka/Sabine, which is something Baylan seems to play to to get Sabine to hand over the map. Those more vicious and powerful attacks allow him to get the edge on Ahsoka, and defeat her. Before she threw Shin into the pillar, i read his actions as him being more focused on stalling her out. that line he says 'it didn't need to come to this, but you know no other way', absolute chills. it's heartbreaking to have lost a performer as talented as Ray Stevenson.
-Sabine has just lost her master and the sheer opportunity to see Ezra again (the one connection she truly has left) leads her to give the map up to Baylan. That's all that matters to her anymore, because what else does she have left? I know some will hate her for this decision as it opens the galaxy up to war, but I think it's a great moment for her character and is very human.

Episode 4, therefore, through all the amazing lightsaber duels, is all about the fear of loss, the impacts attachment have on our spirituality and found family. These themes that Star Wars has focused on forever. I think that's why you have people saying it feels so naturally Star Wars to them, because it's dealing with the same themes, in a new light.

And who connects most of all to those emotions and fear of loss out of literally every character in the Star Wars mythos?

Anakin. Skywalker.

No surprise he’s the one to show up at the end

My only other point to make is to plead. Hot Toys. Please make Baylan and Shin. It's just so beyond necessary. I think their outfits were even cooler without the cloaks too which I didn't think was possible honestly.

I feel like it's almost a chorus of praise for those two. Even that Jeremy Jahns video posted above, where he's ultimately pretty meh on the show, involves a bunch of praise for them. Great antagonists make Star Wars special and its even better when it works to further the protagonists too.

It's a far from perfect show for sure, but I'm immersed. I want more. I can only hope the back half delivers on what the first half has set up.

 

[greymask]

Spoiler:

So if Ashoka is really in the WBW and not a fall induced hallucination, and Anakin is there, does that mean that Anakin can leave the WBW? Would Filoni EVER do that?? Which Anakin are we looking at? The one who became Vader and is now a Force ghost or the one that has yet to become Vader?

This is what I notice too... English is my third language, so I always turn on the subtitle. At the last scene before credit:

Spoiler:

The subs read : Vader theme. It was very subtle. I won't notice it without the subs

 

[xipotec]

I would rather have none of these Mary Sues. Give me a show from the point of view of the Sith like the Acolyte, that sounds like it has potential.

 

[JAWS]

Hearing good things about this one. Should I renew my subscription

Since you are a fan of TCW and I think Rebels (or was that ducky) I think you would like this show.

I have. I think the few warts that people claim are on this show are more like small pimples that are easily removed with some Oxy10 cover up

 

[JAWS]

Hey look I’m just saying lmao Facebook, Twitter and here aren’t complaining about it like the others so to see no negativity surrounding a Star Wars project gives me optimism. But I agree the show ain’t over yet lol.

Yeah…. If I were you I would wait to see if it ends well.


Not gonna lie… I will be in suspense from here on out worrying that they are gonna screw this all up.

 

[JAWS]

Renew? After one apparently half-decent episode? I think you overestimate their chances....

All but one episode have been good and the last one was great IMO. The one lesser episode was not even that bad.

 

[xipotec]

Since you are a fan of TCW and I think Rebels (or was that ducky) I think you would like this show.

I have. I think the few warts that people claim are on this show are more like small pimples that are easily removed with some Oxy10 cover up

Some folks have made thier minds up about Disney and SW a LONG time ago.

They will die on the hill saying its all bad , nothing like the OT/PT blah blah blah......

At this point they have said it so much they will never go back and admit that Disney is making some good content now.

You know even if they did like it they would never give Katherine Kennedy any credit for the good stuff.....only give her crap for the problems as they see it....

Its kind cultish behavior.

 

[JAWS]

Some folks have made thier minds up about Disney and SW a LONG time ago.

They will die on the hill saying its all bad , nothing like the OT/PT blah blah blah......

At this point they have said it so much they will never go back and admit that Disney is making some good content now.

You know even if they did like it they would never give Katherine Kennedy any credit for the good stuff.....only give her crap for the problems as they see it....

Its kind cultish behavior.

It kind of seems that way. I mean I get it.. Kennedy SW has really burnt the fans too many times but you got to give credit where credit is due.

Now that credit should not go to KK but rather DF. So there should be no harm in singing it’s praises

I just know Mando got lots of love the first 2 season even though there were some awful moments, bad acting, stupid characters and dull plots but people gave all that a pass.

I’m not saying it’s the people here but I’ve seen some reviewers complaining and they come across as a bit silly cause there arguments don’t hold up… not when they praised Mando just a few years ago.

Ahsoka has me feeling a bit like my old fan boy self again. I thought that was lost. I was really checked out and in all honesty and was ready to cancel D+. Glad I waited.

 

[Asta]

It kind of seems that way. I mean I get it.. Kennedy SW has really burnt the fans too many times but you got to give credit where credit is due.

Now that credit should not go to KK but rather DF. So there should be no harm in singing it’s praises

I just know Mando got lots of love the first 2 season even though there were some awful moments, bad acting, stupid characters and dull plots but people gave all that a pass.

I’m not saying it’s the people here but I’ve seen some reviewers complaining and they come across as a bit silly cause there arguments don’t hold up… not when they praised Mando just a few years ago.

Ahsoka has me feeling a bit like my old fan boy self again. I thought that was lost. I was really checked out and in all honesty and was ready to cancel D+. Glad I waited.

I was lost for a while too.

Some of the series just went through the motions. There were good moments in them, but they didn't capture the spirit or nostalgia I was looking for. Beyond the OT the best of Star Wars for me has always been the earlier novels. Those writers, beginning with Brian Daley, really got Star Wars. Turned out they knew it better than Lucas himself when 1999 came around.

Alan Dean Foster is in there too, since he wrote Star Wars as well as Splinter of the Mind's Eye, but the latter was already a 'legend' long before the concept of Legends.

Andor was good, but in a different way. It was at the extreme opposite of OWK, TBOBF and most of the PT and TCW, which were pretty all much Saturday morning cartoons due to their misplaced 'humour'. I use 'humour' loosely because OWK and TBOBF had elements to laugh at rather than with, and in the PT and TCW Jar Jar and the Battle Droids weren't funny but merely annoyingly stupid and completely undermined everything else.

Somehow Ahsoka captures the nostalgia better so far.

 

[greymask]

Just when I thought Baylan couldn't get any cooler than previous episode. Maybe a bit emotional of his recent passing, but Stevenson is almost perfect in every way.
I hope Disney give his character a fitting end. Atm, HT baylan is top priority from this show.

 

[ebor]

There can only be one Ashoka…

Dawson is just too brooding

The baddies are carrying this show

Only a Sith deals in ‘absolutes’

Yup I am handing in my Rebel card and joining the Empire!

 

[a-dev]

Whole show has been great so far and this episode was 10/10 Star Wars content.

Renew? Whole show has been great so far and this episode was 10/10 Star Wars content. I think you overestimate their chances!

All but one episode have been good and the last one was great IMO. The one lesser episode was not even that bad.

Renew? All but one episode have been good and the last one was great IMO. The one lesser episode was not even that bad. I think you overestimate their chances!

Renew? After one apparently half-decent episode? I think you overestimate their chances....

Nah, mine worked better guys.

 

[Dark_Knight_89]

That was the best single episode of any live-action Star Wars series ever.

 

[loki2371]

That was the best single episode of any live-action Star Wars series ever.

I'm not so sure about that...

I have yet to see reaction videos and clips all over the internet of people losing their ****, crying, and screaming joy like when Luke showed up at the end of Mando s2.

I highly doubt this comes even close to that. No matter how emotional anything gets with these rebels characters, there are a much smaller percentage of fans emotionally invested in this than OT characters. I like Ahsoka and would've preferred she died in Rebels at the hands of Vader. Now that would've been an emotional ride.

I'm patiently waiting for this to end and read the final consensus to decide if I'll care enough to watch it.

 

[jye4ever]

I did enjoy the X-Wing’s getting ****** lol

 

[Johnny Utah]

That Carson guy showing up again and again. Is he related to Filoni or something?