My issues with KOTCS

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Good post, Mad Old Lu. Agree with all of it, especially this stuff:

I personally get a little annoyed from the Peru Graveyard through to the waterfalls point.
That is absolutely the chunk of the film I can't excuse, either. Other than a moment here or there (the quicksand scene is dumb, but Indy's reaction to the snake might be the most classic Indy of anything in the movie) it's all pretty bad.

As far as the special effects, it's very strange that the jungle looks so fake since it was filmed on a jungle location. I believe all they did was add more foliage to the path, and somehow they managed to screw that up and make even the real stuff look fake!
So true! In fact, there were a lot of large, practical sets used in the film. The big obelisk? That was a full-size, functioning thing they actually built. But it looks CGI. :slap
 
I do like River Phoenix's brilliant Harrison Ford impression, though... particular the bit in the cave.

Yes Phoenix's performance was truly inspired. Such a waste.

I just don't know why they felt the need to explain the origins of Indy's most iconic elements all in one fell swoop. That's just so dumb and completely blows away the mystique. I'd have been okay with the Fedora and inspiration of the jacket from the one guy... but the snake phobia, whip and scar were WAY over-the-top. Especially when they happen all at the same time. :rolleyes:

We're lucky they didn't cut to a quick shot of a young Marion and Willie in another train car exclaiming "wow look at him go!" as he ran down the tracks. :rolleyes:
 
We're lucky they didn't cut to a quick shot of a young Marion and Willie in another train car exclaiming "wow look at him go!" as he ran down the tracks. :rolleyes:

Well, Marion wouldn't have been born yet but I see your point. I'm surprised they just didn't make the fat boy scout friend Sallah. :lol
 
Then have Willie and Abner exclaim "look at him go!" as Abner's wife rubs her expectant belly. :lol

It's not like that would have been "too stupid" for them to do.
 
I have trouble with even the first hour. Slow and tedious in the warehouse with the 'gunpowder' trick. Silly motorcycle chase much like the Venice speedboats. A lot of talk but not much to understand or care about. And I agree the film really falls apart in the 2nd half -- for me, when they're in that tent and Spalko talks forever and then the 'mindmeld' nonsense with Indy and the skull.

As soon as mutt was thrown out of the jeep and tarzaned swings his way back into a moving car a tear rolled down my cheak,cause it was in that moment I realized I probly would never see a good indiana jones movie again.

For me that happened with the opening of TOD. That Hong Kong nightclub scene was just too zany and silly instead of exciting. It didn't wholy set the movie off-course, but I saw where George and Steven were headed.

TLC had a lot more of that type of humor. In fact, TLC is the "funny one" because of Connery. Strangely, its the humor that everyone loves about TLC because there really isn't any great action sequences in that film -- any action is either abbreviated with a joke (blimp, plane fight, the whole opening) or rushed through (the way the speedboat chase ends). The only one that works is the tank chase -- except for the silly way Indy is 'trapped' -- by his own satchel strap? Really? He couldn't snap that and roll away from the tank?
 
The scenes where Harrison is in clear command is where the movie shines. The parts where Indy takes a back seat and other characters take over is where the film fails. Which, if nothing else, says to me that another Indy movie without Harrison would be a waste of time.
 
The scenes where Harrison is in clear command is where the movie shines. The parts where Indy takes a back seat and other characters take over is where the film fails. Which, if nothing else, says to me that another Indy movie without Harrison would be a waste of time.

:goodpost::exactly:
 
For me that happened with the opening of TOD. That Hong Kong nightclub scene was just too zany and silly instead of exciting. It didn't wholy set the movie off-course, but I saw where George and Steven were headed.

There was a time (late 80's/early 90's) when I would have agreed with you. TOD just couldn't hang with Raiders (and what movie could?) and just suffered so much in comparison. I naively once thought that TLC got things back on track.

But not too long after TLC I really had an epiphany that while TOD is extreme in its silliness, leading lady whininess, and shockingly dark subject matter its just so damn *unapologetic* in its extremes that I can't help but love it! It doesn't do *anything* half-assed, to a fault at times, but damn do I ever respect it. You just don't see many movies that own their own outrageousness, and awesomely so.

TLC is a blatantly sugar-coated "make-up" movie for the darkness in TOD and never has the courage to be its own thing. It's either making up for the darkness of TOD or rehashing gags from Raiders. Its got nothing else going for it except Connery.

KOTCS is okay, not as horrible as many people make out, but that's almost too bad in and of itself, because while it isn't great and it isn't terrible it's also just kind of "there" and serves no real purpose and gives no real reason to invest two hours in watching it. It doesn't even have any iconic or defining moments in the tradition of the dodgy SW prequels which for all their faults still each had some fantastic new characters and sequences you couldn't get anywhere else.
 
My problems :

All of the cinematography, especially during car chases, the way the camera rides in over top and zooms in on characters is just way too modern feeling, like they couldnt have accomplished it with the original films so it feels like a very out of place style.

Opening prologue is far too long and boring, stiff acting, forced lines between Spalko and Indy, her mind reading isn't funny it's just downright awkward like I find myself thinking "really George?"

Nuketown in it's entirety. End with the rocketsled escape, no interrogation, just back to Marshall, makes Indy's surprise over his ransacked office make more sense. We don't need the worthless background on Spalko, Indy being irradiated or surviving a nuke blast, its all just retarded.

Henry Sr. dead, no need to mention him at all, just Marcus would have been fine.

Shia crying in Ox's cell.

The forced nature of the cave where they find Oriana's mask dagger etc, it's a straight rip off of ToD w/ Shorty.

Karen Allen. Holy ****, go back to acting school.

The quicksand, Indy is totally out of character here, instead of worrying he trys to explain viscosity? Yea I get hes a teacher but giant wtf.

The revelation of Mutt as his child, poorly acted out.

The monkies, Mutt taking about 30 crotch shots.

Rubber Tree actually not too bad, the final waterfall was way too much tho, even compared to TOD's raft scene.

Not showing a battle between Spalko's men and the Ugha.

Showing live aliens, especially how they lean in and give Spalko that retarded angry glare. Again I hate your soul Lucas.

Mac's death, heavy dinner and couldn't get up off the floor. So awkward and stupid looking.

"Knowledge was their treasure, their treasure was knowledge" "Somewhere Grandpa is laughing." :monkey4

Getting married, Shia picking up the hat, not even as a joke is that ok.

Was going to attempt a fan edit of the movie but now I'm not even so sure it could be done.
 
Mac's death, heavy dinner and couldn't get up off the floor. So awkward and stupid looking.

Seriously, what was up with that? I know the novelization acts like his loot pulled him into the vortex or whatever but on film he just lays down for a post-turkey dinner nap and casually says his goodbye to Indy before changing his tune and screaming as he perishes. Totally bizarre.
 
Seriously, what was up with that? I know the novelization acts like his loot pulled him into the vortex or whatever but on film he just lays down for a post-turkey dinner nap and casually says his goodbye to Indy before changing his tune and screaming as he perishes. Totally bizarre.

I must have blacked out during that scene because I don't remember that at all. :lol
 
There was a time (late 80's/early 90's) when I would have agreed with you. TOD just couldn't hang with Raiders (and what movie could?) and just suffered so much in comparison. I naively once thought that TLC got things back on track.

Each worse film makes its predecessor look better. TLC made me forgive a lot of my complaints about TOD. Similarly, KOTCS made me forgive a lot of the problems with TLC.

Imagine one day, the 5th Indy may have us looking back at Skull and saying "you know, that wasn't so bad"...
 
I agree for the most part. Karen Allen was unfortunately not up to the task, and it affected the scenes she was in.

Is this her fault or the fault of SS and the bad script??? I mean Steven at some point should have said "STOP SMILING!!!!" Right?

Yeah, TLC gets way too much of a pass from KOTCS haters. It has its moments of coolness too, but it has its own sets of issues...

For me that happened with the opening of TOD. That Hong Kong nightclub scene was just too zany and silly instead of exciting. It didn't wholy set the movie off-course, but I saw where George and Steven were headed.

TLC had a lot more of that type of humor. In fact, TLC is the "funny one" because of Connery. Strangely, its the humor that everyone loves about TLC because there really isn't any great action sequences in that film -- any action is either abbreviated with a joke (blimp, plane fight, the whole opening) or rushed through (the way the speedboat chase ends). The only one that works is the tank chase -- except for the silly way Indy is 'trapped' -- by his own satchel strap? Really? He couldn't snap that and roll away from the tank?

TLC is a blatantly sugar-coated "make-up" movie for the darkness in TOD and never has the courage to be its own thing. It's either making up for the darkness of TOD or rehashing gags from Raiders. Its got nothing else going for it except Connery.


Ahhhhh Good. I thought I was the only Indy fan who did not care for TLC. It's good to see that others have all the same issues that I have always had. I never understood the love heaped on this one.

You know what else I hate in that one. The fact that Indy has a Tie on for several action scenes (castle and bike chase). I like my Indy cool. Not Nerdy :)
 
There was a time (late 80's/early 90's) when I would have agreed with you. TOD just couldn't hang with Raiders (and what movie could?) and just suffered so much in comparison. I naively once thought that TLC got things back on track.

But not too long after TLC I really had an epiphany that while TOD is extreme in its silliness, leading lady whininess, and shockingly dark subject matter its just so damn *unapologetic* in its extremes that I can't help but love it! It doesn't do *anything* half-assed, to a fault at times, but damn do I ever respect it. You just don't see many movies that own their own outrageousness, and awesomely so.


TOD is a great Indy film. I love Raiders and it is the better film but I saw TOD at the perfect age and it was TOD that made me a huge Indy fan.

For a short time I thought it was nostalgia that kept my love for this film going. But i am not really one for nostalgia making a bad movie seem good. I llove TOD because TOD is a kick ass take no prisoners action film. The last 40 min is non stop action. That is pretty impressive. And the Mine Car chase is one of the greatest mix of special effects and live action ever done.

Raiders is by far the best but TOD is the psych up Indy film. After he says "Right..All of Us" and the the Slave Children crusade music starts and we see Indy's silhouette, I still to this day get goosebumps!! I just got goosebumps again thinking of this scene!
 
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