I appreciate that, thank you!
This is the thesis that I mentioned for what I see in the inkblot of Rebel Moon is here for any that care to plow through it: https://www.reddit.com/r/Snyderverse/s/LP3aw867Uk
Iām thinking of our discussion of Star Wars, and how groundbreaking that felt at the timeā¦ even though it was in fact highly derivative!āalthough its elements were sewn together in a way that felt exciting and freshā¦
As Iāve said numerous times, if my thesis holds water what Rebel Moon is exploring is not a new idea. But it doesnāt have to be. In fact itās an ancient oneāand thatās not a bad thing, itās a good thing. Tolkien, for example, drew upon āold ideasā with his own homage to the ancient myths of Northern Europe. Stories, and story elements, their symbolism, etc., donāt have to be akin to Einsteinās theory of relativity for fiction in order to be deeply satisfying, lol.
One thing that Zack Snyderās work in general makes me realizeā¦ and this certainly is true for Rebel Moon in spadesā¦ and Iām generalizing beyond film appreciation to everything in life, philosophicallyā¦ is that thereās the object as it actually exists, standing independently from us in external reality, and what that thing also stimulates in the human psycheāwhich is heavily shaped by the idealizations of what we desire, wish for, hope for, etc., in our fantasy and imagination. And also what offends and repulses us, makes us fearful, resentful about, angry about, etc. Weāre constantly working that problem out. And all human psychological distress and contentment more can be constructively inspected in this way.*
Some will see that as intellectually pretentious. I donāt give a damn.
When I watch Rebel Moon I appreciate it from the perspective of its creator, more or less. Iām not mentally asking it to be anything other than what it is. I think what it is, is extremely rich, nuanced, and layered. But that is in the context of reality itself containing successively deeper layers to peel back. Thereās an enormous amount of lore and backstory that exists behind what weāre seeing on the screen. Itās also a saga that is going to unfold and develop over time. Iām patient about that. Iām intrigued at what Iām seeing that will later be shown to connect with other dimensions to the story as the tale unfolds. Iām excited for that!
But anyway, these are some of the reasons why I love what Iām seeing!
*Lol, to translate this to the most mundane terms, it shows up in what weāre doing with our appreciation of 1/6 figures as well, right? Finally here on Christmas morning I unboxed Soosoo Ozymandias and Iām very, very pleased. To my brain the head sculpts are both great! I love the suit and cape. Iām pleased as punch. I can appreciate and respect that some were very disappointed with it, but it looks beautiful to me. Just another of endless examples of how differently we can see the same objects.
Merry Christmas Alatar! Glad to see you've returned to the thread. I gave your thesis a read just now and found your ideas with respect to Snyder's influences/inspirations quite interesting. I'm sure you're well versed on ZS but without him coming out and stating said influences directly it's all speculation, but not preposterous by any means.
I do think the preface you laid down prior to your ideas illustrates how reasonable people differ in their interpretation of Snyder in general. You point to his Watchmen-style deconstruction of BvS as the reason so many critics & fans panned the movie, whereas for many of us it was his odd choices in doing so (putting Gotham & Metropolis across a bay from each other, having Clark be utterly clueless about Batman's heroic past across said bay prior to his vigilante streak, Batman's indiscriminately killing criminals, casting Jesse Eisenberg as Lex Luthor, the Martha moment, etc.). The studio's requiring him to trim down his cut didn't help, but it also illustrates another difference in how BvS was viewed as well as why things went to hell thereafter. You describe it as the WB "ruthlessly destroying HIS planned DCEU universe", whereas many would point out that it wasn't HIS DCEU at all but rather theirs and he wasn't delivering what they wanted/expected. How they went about ousting him was deplorable but many feel that he wasn't without any blame. If BvS had been part of the MCU no doubt Feige would have let him know early on that he needed to make some changes (like Feige's done countless times with other directors) and ZS would have either had to make some compromises or hit the bricks. Sadly WB didn't have someone like that minding the store and you know the rest.
The other part of your thesis I'd like to address is the "writer's should write what they know" observation that Zack is commenting on his own experiences through his art (specifically Rebel Moon). While that may be the case, I think another adage applies - "Know your limitations as well as your strengths". I think it's no coincidence that his best films are probably Man Of Steel (written by Christopher Nolan and David Goyer) and 300 (a straightforward adaption of the Frank Miller graphic novel). Snyder can stage some great battles and is capable of putting spectacular images on the big screen (RM included), but IMO he's not really a great writer and should probably stay in his lane (or at the very least collaborate with people whose strengths compliment rather than duplicate his own). Rebel Moon has a great Magnificent Seven style framework on which to build, but Snyder could have really used someone to steer him clear of some of the derivative and/or indulgent choices he made as well as insist on the character development & camaraderie/team interactions that this release lacked.
The strong positive response is due obviously to Zack Snuder fans who desperately want it to be amazing, the very negative responses meanwhile are due to the film being so hyped up as basically the new star wars. If your movie is bad or at the very least forgettable mediocre fare then there will be mocking. Honestly I have yet to watch it myself but based on some reviews and clips I watched it has some pretty major issues in terms of writing, particularly the dialogue, editing and many creative choices such as the excessive slomo shots and continued Hollywood trend of having small women but up big guys over and over again. I assume there are multiple redeeming factors but crappy b movie is what I fully expect the film to be overall. More meh to add to the meh pile.Watched the movie last night.
Really don't understand what all the fuss is about. Apart from some pretty shots this flick is totally forgettable... Like so many others out there.
Don't really see anything that could invoke such a passionate response, neither positively nor negativly.
It's like one of those direct to home video releases back in the day that no one really cared about.
If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even have heard about it.
That's basically it.More meh to add to the meh pile.
B movie sounds about right.based on some reviews and clips I watched it has some pretty major issues in terms of writing, particularly the dialogue, editing and many creative choices such as the excessive slomo shots and continued Hollywood trend of having small women but up big guys over and over again. I assume there are multiple redeeming factors but crappy b movie is what I fully expect the film to be overall.
and continued Hollywood trend of having small women but up big guys over and over again.
I keep seeing this complaint and I guess Iām not watching the movies where this happens all the time ( at least when it is not explained by the small lady having super powers or whatever) but part of this might be the trend we see of action heroes not getting beat up as much.
Dunno about the new Star Wars but I was very mildly hyped because while I expected it to be tropey "scrappy rebels take on the evil empire" thing I was up for it - why not, I can't watch Reacher until I can binge all the episodes and there looked like - from the trailer - some cool visuals. The lead wasn't conventionally pretty, or looked teeny-tiny, so maybe she'd be like a Black Widow or something.The strong positive response is due obviously to Zack Snuder fans who desperately want it to be amazing, the very negative responses meanwhile are due to the film being so hyped up as basically the new star wars. If your movie is bad or at the very least forgettable mediocre fare then there will be mocking. Honestly I have yet to watch it myself but based on some reviews and clips I watched it has some pretty major issues in terms of writing, particularly the dialogue, editing and many creative choices such as the excessive slomo shots and continued Hollywood trend of having small women but up big guys over and over again. I assume there are multiple redeeming factors but crappy b movie is what I fully expect the film to be overall. More meh to add to the meh pile.
I genuinely love the work itself, and itās mostly a chore having to defend what I like.
I like how you still had to turn the knife.It's OK to like or even LOVE a bad movie.
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