Lol, Right - this is the only piece of humor in the whole film that didn't work for me.That explains why I felt cringe on how he was acting with wonder woman. I'm like you were badass a moment ago wtf is this. Lol
Lol, Right - this is the only piece of humor in the whole film that didn't work for me.That explains why I felt cringe on how he was acting with wonder woman. I'm like you were badass a moment ago wtf is this. Lol
Oh I know, ha I was messing. I do think others should give it a read tho. Criticize current Miller all you want but no one can deny the impact he had on comics in the 80s. You can thank him for the darker/gritty version of Batman rather than campy Batman. There’s a reason why every single Bat film, except a few BF and B&R, are heavily influenced from this era of Bat history. It’s because it’s arguably the closest to a definitive version of Batman and Miller was a HUGE part of that.He’s a comic book nerd for sure with a wider range of taste than just two works. But the main reason he’s drawn to Watchmen and TDKR is that in 1986 those two runs had such an enormous impact on the comic books by establishing deconstruction of the genre. Here’s a good resource for all to understand that better if they’re unfamiliar: Zack Snyder's DCEU Is a Nine-Hour Joyride Through Decades of Comic Book History
Those two books are the worst thing to happen to comics since the advent of the comics code specifically for that reason. “Establishing deconstruction of the genre…”for people who are less talented, less intelligent, and who would just continue to push the envelope ad nauseam for 20+ years. Snyder’s among that lot and you need only look at his Watchmen to see why.He’s a comic book nerd for sure with a wider range of taste than just two works. But the main reason he’s drawn to Watchmen and TDKR is that in 1986 those two runs had such an enormous impact on the comic books by establishing deconstruction of the genre. Here’s a good resource for all to understand that better if they’re unfamiliar: Zack Snyder's DCEU Is a Nine-Hour Joyride Through Decades of Comic Book History
Oh I know, ha I was messing. I do think others should give it a read tho. Criticize current Miller all you want but no one can deny the impact he had on comics in the 80s. You can thank him for the darker/gritty version of Batman rather than campy Batman. There’s a reason why every single Bat film, except a few BF and B&R, are heavily influenced from this era of Bat history. It’s because it’s arguably the closest to a definitive version of Batman and Miller was a HUGE part of that.
Yes you are right. Denny O’Neil and Neal Adams also played a huge in that the change started with them. I would say however it really took off with Miller.This isn't entirely true, that started back in the early 70s with Dennis O'Neill and Neal Adams. They introduced Ra's and reintroduced Arkham. He was the major reason, but FM pushed it hard with his books as well and gets a lot of credit due to TDKR and Batman Year One and those 2 stories being some of the most popular Bat stories.
Funny because it was so close to the end of the 66 show that they made the push to make him darker again.
I guess that’s to each their own. because of the nature of comic books and character who’ve been around for 80+ yrs, any era can be definitive to someone. My take is based on the era that tends to get pulled into other mediums which is mostly the 80s/early 90s.Say what you will but no denying Miller's comics where good Batman stories, they aren't definitive Batman but they do hold a place in his history.
Yup I wouldn't say one era of the comics is better then the other. I Ioved all of them as I've learned more about Batman in my teen years. My intro to the character was Batman 89 and then I watched 66 show but grew up with BTAS since I was born 93. But I can look at that show and it would be my definitive version of Batman. Thankfully I appreciate all of his history.Yes you are right. Denny O’Neil and Neal Adams also played a huge in that the change started with them. I would say however it really took off with Miller.
I guess that’s to each their own. because of the nature of comic books and character who’ve been around for 80+ yrs, any era can be definitive to someone. My take is based on the era that tends to get pulled into other mediums which is mostly the 80s/early 90s.
I respect your opinion and like most takes on comic book characters, it’s your own amongst thousands of others. I can go on and on about it but I’ll just say I much prefer characters who are actually human in nature, including their faults and doubts. I find characters who are tested and struggle yet come out on top far more inspiring than characters who are completely unaffected by the world around them, who never stumble or question themselves. I’ve read countless Bat books and the ones that stand out to me are the ones where he‘s truly tested. It’s why I like deconstructed stories and It’s why I find BvS UE to be in my top 5 comic inspired movies. To each their own tho.Those two books are the worst thing to happen to comics since the advent of the comics code specifically for that reason.…. it’s not the one we needed right now.
******* spot the f on my main manThose two books are the worst thing to happen to comics since the advent of the comics code specifically for that reason. “Establishing deconstruction of the genre…”for people who are less talented, less intelligent, and who would just continue to push the envelope ad nauseam for 20+ years. Snyder’s among that lot and you need only look at his Watchmen to see why.
I cut Alan Moore a lot of slack for the same reason I cut a lot of people more slack: he’s funny. He wrote the definitive pisstake on comic books and a generation of people was too dumb to tell they were the butt of a joke. Snyder doesn’t give me the vibe of an avid comic book reader. He gives me more “I was the frat bro who shared a dorm with a nerd and picked up his copy of Watchmen one day and it blew my mind because it was edgy.” That’s the vibe I get from his movie, anyway. He somehow manages to copy and paste panel after panel while completely and utterly missing the point.
The slow motion fight scenes, the elaborate $100K a pop Hollywood quality superhero suits; the very way he frames Rorschach as the sort of righteous crusader against an increasingly evil world with his own Randian sensibilities on full display (this is a dude whose dream project is to adapt The Fountainhead, after all)…and don’t even get me started on Hallelujah. Snyder views the entire thing as a celebration of these heroes when it’s fundamentally an indictment. Miller and Moore may very well have had genius imaginations, but, make no mistake, they were still beholden to the same things in their twenties as the rest of us are: being dumb, uncertain, and angry that they didn’t have it figured out or that the world they got wasn’t the one they were promised.
These were a couple of long haired art kids trying to tell stories of heroism at a time in history that was, frankly, debilitating for people like them. The New York they lived in was still the seedy, dangerous cesspool that nobody could figure out what to do with, the nuclear threat of the Cold War was looming overhead, and good old’ Ronnie the populist was selling out the country piece by piece in the name of Capitalism, the free market, and fiscal conservativism. I like The Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen, despite my disdain for what they wrought, but because they were important books that had something unique to say at a time in history when it needed to be said; when America’s heroes needed to be scrutinized.
And that’s where my issue with Snyder comes in: not everything needs to be a deconstruction and, like Wez said, we already got shades of old man Batman in Nolan’s films barely 5 years prior. Not just “Old man Batman” we got everything Snyder tried to do (but, again, smarter and more nuanced) with the post-9/11 angst and the question of freedom vs. security in The Dark Knight. Everything Snyder does, he props up like it’s the second coming of Christ and it’s not. I got to watch real people jumping out of ****ing buildings on TV as a 6-year old. My idea of escapism isn’t some guy (who would become a suicide bomber for Lex Luthor) getting his legs crushed by debris while some orphan child wanders helplessly through a dust cloud.
I get it, too. You catch me off-line and talk to me about something other than comic books and I’d be the first to tell you that the world sucks and it’s going to hell in a hand basket, but that doesn’t mean Superman does, too. In a world this hopeless, who in their right mind would want Superman, of all things, to be dour, self-doubting, and gloomily looming overhead in his dark blue suit? Batman’s superpower, for instance, is his overwhelming resilience. It’s not prep time and it’s not that he’s a human being. It’s that he can be faced with the absolute worst of the worst that humanity has to offer, regularly, and still find a reason to keep fighting.
Snyder took away all of that. He made a hopeless Superman and a broken Batman and then didn’t understand when most people didn’t respond to it. I know what his angle was: “break the toys so I can put them back together again.” It’s a cool thought experiment and, if it were an elseworlds comic, I’d probably even pick it up and read it, but to paraphrase “The Dark Knight,” it’s not the one we needed right now.
I just find that too often, these takes discount the aspirational value of Superheroes. Spider-Man’s a kid from Queens. He’s unlucky in love, behind on his rent, and constantly juggling the responsibilities of his personal life with those of his web-swinging alter ego. That’s what made Marvel “the world outside your window.” I’ve always maintained that DC is the world as it should be and I wish I’d been able to hand a copy of The New Frontier to college-aged Zack Snyder once upon a time and said “here, read this.”I respect your opinion and like most takes on comic book characters, it’s your own amongst thousands of others. I can go on and on about it but I’ll just say I much prefer characters who are actually human in nature, including their faults and doubts. I find characters who are tested and struggle yet come out on top far more inspiring than characters who are completely unaffected by the world around them, who never stumble or question themselves. I’ve read countless Bat books and the ones that stand out to me are the ones where he‘s truly tested. It’s why I like deconstructed stories and It’s why I find BvS UE to be in my top 5 comic inspired movies. To each their own tho.
I fear Superman Legacy and all other Gunn verse projects will be dead on arrival just like the Flash. No matter how good or bad the movies, the Snyder loyalists will boycott everything. They make up far more than the noisy minority some dismiss them as.
Nothing short of Snyder being put in charge of everything will ever appease them. Even Cavill wasn't immune to suspicion and hostility when it was suggested anyone other than Zack direct MoS 2.
It used to be Marvel vs DC. These days DC is fighting and killing itself.
It's sad how true this is. Reminds me of the Star Wars fanbase and how toxic it is. They are their own worst enemy. Superman Legacy can be a great film and you will still have a cult of people ******** on it because "Gunn abandoned Cavil! The best Superman we've ever gotten! Why didn't you just make this film with him instead! Snyder was so deep and dark with these characters! You just weren't smart enough to understand it!"I fear Superman Legacy and all other Gunn verse projects will be dead on arrival just like the Flash. No matter how good or bad the movies, the Snyder loyalists will boycott everything. They make up far more than the noisy minority some dismiss them as.
Nothing short of Snyder being put in charge of everything will ever appease them. Even Cavill wasn't immune to suspicion and hostility when it was suggested anyone other than Zack direct MoS 2.
It used to be Marvel vs DC. These days DC is fighting and killing itself.
How does that make them their own worst enemy?It's sad how true this is. Reminds me of the Star Wars fanbase and how toxic it is. They are their own worst enemy. Superman Legacy can be a great film and you will still have a cult of people ******** on it because "Gunn abandoned Cavil! The best Superman we've ever gotten! Why didn't you just make this film with him instead! Snyder was so deep and dark with these characters! You just weren't smart enough to understand it!"
As a matter of fact, you have people saying these things already.
I fear Superman Legacy and all other Gunn verse projects will be dead on arrival just like the Flash. No matter how good or bad the movies, the Snyder loyalists will boycott everything. They make up far more than the noisy minority some dismiss them as.
Nothing short of Snyder being put in charge of everything will ever appease them. Even Cavill wasn't immune to suspicion and hostility when it was suggested anyone other than Zack direct MoS 2.
It used to be Marvel vs DC. These days DC is fighting and killing itself.
ha eh depends on who you ask. There’s fanatics on both sides of where ever you draw a line. I personally just wanted to see Snyder see his vision for JL through and whatever directors and their visions branching off. It’s not gonna happen now. Oh well, I’ll wait till this phase passes and maybe someday something will come up that’s interesting to me. I personally think Gunn is overrated and therefore really don’t care for what he does. WB is using him as a lifeline and it shows. If his Superman film is good, hey that’s great Just my opinion tho. As a longtime Batfan there’s a few things I’ve learned; 80+ yrs of content means a whole lot to sift through and also to let people enjoy whatever version of the character they want to enjoy without finding every instance to crap on it when I don’t share the same opinion.It's sad how true this is. Reminds me of the Star Wars fanbase and how toxic it is. They are their own worst enemy. Superman Legacy can be a great film and you will still have a cult of people ******** on it because "Gunn abandoned Cavil! The best Superman we've ever gotten! Why didn't you just make this film with him instead! Snyder was so deep and dark with these characters! You just weren't smart enough to understand it!"
As a matter of fact, you have people saying these things already.
bUT bVS iS bAD!ha eh depends on who you ask. There’s fanatics on both sides of where ever you draw a line. I personally just wanted to see Snyder see his vision for JL through and whatever directors and their visions branching off. It’s not gonna happen now. Oh well, I’ll wait till this phase passes and maybe someday something will come up that’s interesting to me. I personally think Gunn is overrated and therefore really don’t care for what he does. WB is using him as a lifeline and it shows. If his Superman film is good, hey that’s great Just my opinion tho. As a longtime Batfan there’s a few things I’ve learned; 80+ yrs of content means a whole lot to sift through and also to let people enjoy whatever version of the character they want to enjoy without finding every instance to crap on it when I don’t share the same opinion.
bUT bVS iS bAD!
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