Dave Filoni is officially an Executive Creative Director at Lucasfilm

[matticus]

Lol yeah cause space slugs, Ewoks, Banthas , lightsabers, the force and hyperspace travel all make perfect sense.....


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So your cool with a whale coming out of hyperspace and running into Empire ships to miraculously save the protagonists? Tell me if that screams Star Wars to you. Let me link that for you:

 

[Khev]

Well they wanted the series to go out with a bang and couldn't have the Rebels themselves "winning their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" (since that was covered in Rogue One) so they had to find a way to credit something else with the victory. Space Whales might be crazy but they didn't step on established continuity.

It was different that's for sure (a rare thing in SW) and made for some pretty striking visuals.

 

[jal76]

I feel genuine sympathy for anyone expecting good things from Star Wars, or worse yet...the people lying to themselves about the quality of any recent Star Wars offerings.
It?s not going to happen, the tank is empty, it has nothing left to give.
The fact that the latest Star Wars thread is a big debate over space whales should be all the proof that anyone needs that it?s done.

 

[Khev]

I feel genuine sympathy for...the people lying to themselves about the quality of any recent Star Wars offerings.

So the ENTIRE fandom was wrong about the Mandalorian Season 2 finale and you alone are right? Well I'm glad you're here to tell us these things.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Well they wanted the series to go out with a bang and couldn't have the Rebels themselves "winning their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" (since that was covered in Rogue One) so they had to find a way to credit something else with the victory. Space Whales might be crazy but they didn't step on established continuity.

It was different that's for sure (a rare thing in SW) and made for some pretty striking visuals.

Isn't it just convenience, though? "We need Thrawn and Ezra out of the picture to sync up with the OT, but we don't want to kill either of them. Let's have space whales tug the star destroyer through hyperspace... because they can do that."

Let's just ignore the fact that these whales broke several of the bridge windshields that will leave the crew there (including Ezra and Thrawn) exposed to the elements *at hyperspeed!* Let's also ignore the fact that Ezra would've had to communicate with these whales in advance, letting them know about pretty precise star destroyer positioning at a pretty precise point in time. Was he communicating with them from across the galaxy in real time? Ignoring all of that, you're left with a bizarre plot device just to avoid continuity snags. And it's not the only time Filoni did this sort of thing.

When he had Ahsoka duel Vader, he didn't want to kill Ahsoka. But he couldn't have her defeat Vader either. So what does he do? Uses a time travel plot device to explain how Ahsoka wasn't killed, nor was Vader defeated. And no, I don't care what anyone says: it *is* time travel. In Star Wars.

Space whales and time travel... just to take characters off the board for false drama so they could be brought back later. And for good measure, have the Ahsoka rescue in that time travel scenario be guided by an owl who is actually one of the Mortis "Force gods."

I know you're cool with this stuff, Khev, but you gotta be able to see why it can be viewed as problematic (if not entirely ill-conceived, which I believe all of it to be).

 

[matticus]

Well they wanted the series to go out with a bang and couldn't have the Rebels themselves "winning their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire" (since that was covered in Rogue One) so they had to find a way to credit something else with the victory. Space Whales might be crazy but they didn't step on established continuity.

It was different that's for sure (a rare thing in SW) and made for some pretty striking visuals.

Don't make excuses for their lazy writing. You can ride animals on a planet, not in the vacuum of space nor get them to help in petty human conflicts. Hyperspace whales...

I feel genuine sympathy for anyone expecting good things from Star Wars, or worse yet...the people lying to themselves about the quality of any recent Star Wars offerings.
It?s not going to happen, the tank is empty, it has nothing left to give.
The fact that the latest Star Wars thread is a big debate over space whales should be all the proof that anyone needs that it?s done.

Mando brought me back. TLJ was so repulsive, I never seen Ep9 and frankly ignored most of SW. The animated series well ran dry with the clone whoring. Mando was the sweet, sweet nectar of the gods that I haven't tasted in a long time. Tone, direction, writing, character, costumes, CGI, it has it all.

 

[matticus]

Isn't it just convenience, though? "We need Thrawn and Ezra out of the picture to sync up with the OT, but we don't want to kill either of them. Let's have space whales tug the star destroyer through hyperspace... because they can do that."

Let's just ignore the fact that these whales broke several of the bridge windshields that will leave the crew there (including Ezra and Thrawn) exposed to the elements *at hyperspeed!* Let's also ignore the fact that Ezra would've had to communicate with these whales in advance, letting them know about pretty precise star destroyer positioning at a pretty precise point in time. Was he communicating with them from across the galaxy in real time? Ignoring all of that, you're left with a bizarre plot device just to avoid continuity snags. And it's not the only time Filoni did this sort of thing.

When he had Ahsoka duel Vader, he didn't want to kill Ahsoka. But he couldn't have her defeat Vader either. So what does he do? Uses a time travel plot device to explain how Ahsoka wasn't killed, nor was Vader defeated. And no, I don't care what anyone says: it *is* time travel. In Star Wars.

Space whales and time travel... just to take characters off the board for false drama so they could be brought back later. And for good measure, have the Ahsoka rescue in that time travel scenario be guided by an owl who is actually one of the Mortis "Force gods."

I know you're cool with this stuff, Khev, but you gotta be able to see why it can be viewed as problematic (if not entirely ill-conceived, which I believe all of it to be).

 

[surforia]

Mando brought me back. TLJ was so repulsive, I never seen Ep9 and frankly ignored most of SW. The animated series well ran dry with the clone whoring. Mando was the sweet, sweet nectar of the gods that I haven't tasted in a long time. Tone, direction, writing, character, costumes, CGI, it has it all.

I agree 100% that Mando was the best. Rogue One was pretty great too. The ST was... ok. It doesn?t enrage me like it does for some people, but it?ll never be iconic SW.

 

[Knightstalker]

When Filoni is good, he?s great, but when Filoni is bad, he?s awful. I?m pleased he?s stepped up, but I won?t pretend that he isn?t hit and miss.

 

[Khev]

Isn't it just convenience, though? "We need Thrawn and Ezra out of the picture to sync up with the OT, but we don't want to kill either of them. Let's have space whales tug the star destroyer through hyperspace... because they can do that."

Let's just ignore the fact that these whales broke several of the bridge windshields that will leave the crew there (including Ezra and Thrawn) exposed to the elements *at hyperspeed!* Let's also ignore the fact that Ezra would've had to communicate with these whales in advance, letting them know about pretty precise star destroyer positioning at a pretty precise point in time. Was he communicating with them from across the galaxy in real time? Ignoring all of that, you're left with a bizarre plot device just to avoid continuity snags. And it's not the only time Filoni did this sort of thing.

When he had Ahsoka duel Vader, he didn't want to kill Ahsoka. But he couldn't have her defeat Vader either. So what does he do? Uses a time travel plot device to explain how Ahsoka wasn't killed, nor was Vader defeated. And no, I don't care what anyone says: it *is* time travel. In Star Wars.

Space whales and time travel... just to take characters off the board for false drama so they could be brought back later. And for good measure, have the Ahsoka rescue in that time travel scenario be guided by an owl who is actually one of the Mortis "Force gods."

I know you're cool with this stuff, Khev, but you gotta be able to see why it can be viewed as problematic (if not entirely ill-conceived, which I believe all of it to be).

I don't think you're wrong on any of the above.

I guess the reason the Filoni stuff doesn't bug me as much as some of you is that my brain kind of defaults to seeing it all as second or third tier canon which makes it easier to focus on the good (cool visuals! and they didn't break continuity!) while glossing over the bad (wait, lightspeed whales? time travel? Force "gods??")

I can even compartmentalize the problematic stuff to such a degree that when I see the Ghost, Chopper, or Ahsoka show up in live-action I immediately accept those elements as 100% canon in the context of the live-action footage but then immediately take their backstory as a mere approximation of what we saw in animation. Like maybe the animation is the "folklore" version of those characters' pasts with a great deal of embellishment and even some outright fabrications.

Like the person telling the story deciding that the dream Anakin had about Mortis wasn't interesting enough on it's own so presented it as if it was a real place. And the campfire story of how Ezra got captured by Thrawn got spun into him summoning space whales to capture Thrawn instead. Ahsoka fighting Vader could have been made up, another dream, or what have you. That's my handwaving approach to not needing to throw out all the animated stuff entirely.

I mean just the way that the characters move and fight in the cartoons (Jedi jumping a hundred yards at a time, etc.) kind of advertises quite distinctively that the events we're seeing aren't to be taken entirely at face value.

Going back to the space whales for a second though, I guess even if I saw those in live-action I wouldn't really be that phased. They seem like they'd qualify as being among the "strange stuff" that Han might have seen while traveling from one end of the galaxy to the next. I wouldn't have been put off at all if young Han saw a pod of them cruising past the Falcon while he was slowing cruising through the dark parts of the Kessel Run for instance.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The first sequel -- Splinter of the Minds Eye -- had Force Snakes.


FiloniFilm

 

[matticus]

I agree 100% that Mando was the best. Rogue One was pretty great too. The ST was... ok. It doesn?t enrage me like it does for some people, but it?ll never be iconic SW.

Yeah Rogue One was good. Above and beyond the others. I have a little personal grudge cause the main two characters are really Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors. I really didn't care for the two lead actors either. Space battle was very impressive along with Vader.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

The first sequel -- Splinter of the Minds Eye -- had Force Snakes.


FiloniFilm

That's the next Star Wars movie...Snakes on a Star Destroyer starring Samuel L Jackson

 

[Khev]

Force snakes. Why did it have to be Force snakes.

 

[user 64404]

Its like you guys don't accept that Star Wars is growing beyond the OT but at the same time you don't have the will to drop this franchise at once.

I have watched the first season of Agents of Shield, but i did not like the series storytelling, so i just dropped and never think about agent Coulson again.
Its okay to not like the Rebels finale, but since the beginning the whole show was heavy on magic stuff hidden in the galaxy.

 

[jal76]

So the ENTIRE fandom was wrong about the Mandalorian Season 2 finale and you alone are right? Well I'm glad you're here to tell us these things.

You don?t know what the ENTIRE fandom thinks about anything now, do you?
The Mandalorian is like a sugary cereal that feels great going down until you stop and realize that what you ate wasn?t food, it was just a bowl of sugar and food coloring.
Sorry, it?s a wonderful love letter to my childhood, growing up in London in the 1980s, nothing more. Last Jedi was awful, but in its own way, Mandalorian is such a hollow and soulless nostalgia machine that it may be worse.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don't think you're wrong on any of the above.

I guess the reason the Filoni stuff doesn't bug me as much as some of you is that my brain kind of defaults to seeing it all as second or third tier canon which makes it easier to focus on the good (cool visuals! and they didn't break continuity!) while glossing over the bad (wait, lightspeed whales? time travel? Force "gods??")

I can even compartmentalize the problematic stuff to such a degree that when I see the Ghost, Chopper, or Ahsoka show up in live-action I immediately accept those elements as 100% canon in the context of the live-action footage but then immediately take their backstory as a mere approximation of what we saw in animation. Like maybe the animation is the "folklore" version of those characters' pasts with a great deal of embellishment and even some outright fabrications.

Like the person telling the story deciding that the dream Anakin had about Mortis wasn't interesting enough on it's own so presented it as if it was a real place. And the campfire story of how Ezra got captured by Thrawn got spun into him summoning space whales to capture Thrawn instead. Ahsoka fighting Vader could have been made up, another dream, or what have you. That's my handwaving approach to not needing to throw out all the animated stuff entirely.

I mean just the way that the characters move and fight in the cartoons (Jedi jumping a hundred yards at a time, etc.) kind of advertises quite distinctively that the events we're seeing aren't to be taken entirely at face value.

That's a smart approach to the animated material. I guess you just have to keep your fingers crossed that these things don't seep into live action too much.

I'll check back with you if we get a leaked pic showing live action Ahsoka in the WBW with the owl on her shoulder and one of the portals showing the purrgil coming out of hyperspace carrying the Chimaera.

Going back to the space whales for a second though, I guess even if I saw those in live-action I wouldn't really be that phased. They seem like they'd qualify as being among the "strange stuff" that Han might have seen while traveling from one end of the galaxy to the next. I wouldn't have been put off at all if young Han saw a pod of them cruising past the Falcon while he was slowing cruising through the dark parts of the Kessel Run for instance.

Yeah, I don't really object to space whales from a superficial perspective. Had they merely shown up more as background fodder the way you describe, I'd probably just roll my eyes and think nothing more of it. But self propelling through hyperspace is too much cringe, even for just cartoon SW. And then *how* they were used for the plot just made it insufferably bad for me.

But still, I consider the WBW and Mortis gods to be worse. I just don't see how any of that is an organic (or fitting) extension of what SW started as. So it's just not something that I can fold into how I perceive this fictional universe. And I'm not geared to be able to apply your approach to handwaving these elements away as something akin to poorly translated folklore; at least not until I have more incentive to do so.

Its like you guys don't accept that Star Wars is growing beyond the OT but at the same time you don't have the will to drop this franchise at once.

I have watched the first season of Agents of Shield, but i did not like the series storytelling, so i just dropped and never think about agent Coulson again.
Its okay to not like the Rebels finale, but since the beginning the whole show was heavy on magic stuff hidden in the galaxy.

That's fair. And I don't have a problem staying away from Bad Batch and any other future animation projects. I'm happy for the people who enjoy it, but Rebels was enough reason for me to realize it's not for me. The problem is how much of Rebels will be extended into live action. My comment to Khev above about the Ahsoka show is half serious. Even though LFL is doing their best to make the idea of a consistent canon into a total joke, that was the original premise: All part of a single continuity.

 

[abake]

Just watching part of that Space Whales clip makes me glad I don't watch any of the SW animated shows...

 

[Dave_W]

Wasn't there a space octopus that lives near a black hole in Solo? I barely remember what happened in that film.

 

[ZE_501]

Wasn't there a space octopus that lives near a black hole in Solo? I barely remember what happened in that film.

It was more of a Cthulu-eque Eldritch Horror ...