Zack Snyder's Rebel Moon

[Alatar]

Holy mother of God... this thread

Alatar, I can honestly say in the nearly 14 years I've been on this forum I've never seen such truly relentless behavior; do you think your endless defense/justification from every possible angle is going to change anyone's mind. Why are you wasting so much time and effort when people are simply trying to tell you, they're just not that into it.

Let it go...

So I’m to stop voicing an unpopular opinion, essentially.

Haha, ain’t happenin’ bro.

I harbor no illusions about converting anyone. But I’m perfectly justified to explain what I like and enjoy about this new mythos. I make no apologies whatsoever for that.

 

[Alatar]

Come on Alatar, now you're just lashing out. Taking a run at Vader isn't going to win you many converts. You may have been there "back in the day", but it seems you weren't paying a great deal of attention. First of all, to be the ultimate B movie villain Vader would have to be in a B movie, which Star Wars in 1977 decidedly was not. It was a cultural phenomenon and Vader was unique and mysterious, unlike Skrein's derivative Admiral Noble. You're entitled to your opinion but seriously... Also, Vader wasn't in TLJ - you're thinking of Rogue One.

I’m being honest. I genuinely feel that way and always have. Vader is corny. It‘s yet another unpopular opinion I guess. It’s not a view I normally express but in this case felt was warranted.

Star Wars is an update and homage mainly to B movie entertainment in the fantasy-adventure genre. It was let’s take Flash Gordon style pulp but redo it with modern sensibilities and technology.

 

[jaztermareal]

The


Looks to me like she knocked out four molars or premolars. In fact they are clearly that if you pause and look at their shape. Molars are in the back of the mouth.

Sure, I was making a humourous post based on what others said. Apparently the artistic genius of which flew over your head due to your irrational bandwagoning hate of the auter known as me.

 

[jaztermareal]

I’m being honest. I genuinely feel that way and always have. Vader is corny. It‘s yet another unpopular opinion I guess. It’s not a view I normally express but in this case felt was warranted.

Star Wars is an update and homage mainly to B movie entertainment in the fantasy-adventure genre. It was let’s take Flash Gordon style pulp but redo it with modern sensibilities and technology.

Let's assume that Vader is the ridiculous B movie trope you claim. A: Star Wars was a low budget effort from an era when movie making was not as refined and B: it was done so well it worked amazingly well, clicking with audiences both at the time and still today.


Now, does new RM villain resonate with audiences the same way?? Will the character have the same lasting power and iconic nature??? You think he does, but is that going to be the consensus 10 years from now?

 

[jaztermareal]

Holy mother of God... this thread

Alatar, I can honestly say in the nearly 14 years I've been on this forum I've never seen such truly relentless behavior; do you think your endless defense/justification from every possible angle is going to change anyone's mind. Why are you wasting so much time and effort when people are simply trying to tell you, they're just not that into it.

Let it go...

I personally quite enjoy reading it all. Occasioally Alatar makes a good point and when doing so his defense of the film is entertainingly devout.

You know those old debates between religious preachers and someone like Christopher Hitchins? For the audience in general it is clear who was losing but they absolutely insisted on defending a weak position to the figurative death and claiming they were correct. In those old debates it often devolved into circular arguments and repetition. Just grab some popcorn and enjoy the fireworks.

 

[The Buffinator]

I’m being honest. I genuinely feel that way and always have. Vader is corny. It‘s yet another unpopular opinion I guess. It’s not a view I normally express but in this case felt was warranted.

Star Wars is an update and homage mainly to B movie entertainment in the fantasy-adventure genre. It was let’s take Flash Gordon style pulp but redo it with modern sensibilities and technology.

Again, having that opinion is your right but using it as a counterpoint to Noble is IMO way off base. Nearly all of the complaints I've seen about Noble pertain to the derivative nature of the character. There's no denying that his look is far from original and screams Nazis which has been done to death, whereas Vader looked and sounded different than anyone we'd seen before. Additionally, Skrein's portrayal of Noble as a preening sociopath was reminiscent of his previous characters in Deadpool and Alita: Battle Angel. I'm not faulting Skrein for being typecast (He's quite good at being evil lol), but I do fault Snyder for lazily cribbing the Nazi visual aesthetic for him.

 

[jye4ever]

Again, having that opinion is your right but using it as a counterpoint to Noble is IMO way off base. Nearly all of the complaints I've seen about Noble pertain to the derivative nature of the character. There's no denying that his look is far from original and screams Nazis which has been done to death, whereas Vader looked and sounded different than anyone we'd seen before. Additionally, Skrein's portrayal of Noble as a preening sociopath was reminiscent of his previous characters in Deadpool and Alita: Battle Angel. I'm not faulting Skrein for being typecast (He's quite good at being evil lol), but I do fault Snyder for lazily cribbing the Nazi visual aesthetic for him.

You’re right ZS should’ve made him a Lucasfilm story group executive…

 

[JacktheRipper]

I would agree, this is the most interesting thread here. I'm enjoying reading the banter. Even when it gets a little heated there is respect.
I can not comment on RM; have not seen it. Based on the masterpiece/total trash labels I would gather it will fall somewhere in the middle for me.
Alatar has some real devotion to this movie/Snyder. It's like he's writing a dissertation. He's got all his ducks in a row.

 

[Alatar]

Let's assume that Vader is the ridiculous B movie trope you claim. A: Star Wars was a low budget effort from an era when movie making was not as refined and B: it was done so well it worked amazingly well, clicking with audiences both at the time and still today.


Now, does new RM villain resonate with audiences the same way?? Will the character have the same lasting power and iconic nature??? You think he does, but is that going to be the consensus 10 years from now?

Again, having that opinion is your right but using it as a counterpoint to Noble is IMO way off base. Nearly all of the complaints I've seen about Noble pertain to the derivative nature of the character. There's no denying that his look is far from original and screams Nazis which has been done to death, whereas Vader looked and sounded different than anyone we'd seen before. Additionally, Skrein's portrayal of Noble as a preening sociopath was reminiscent of his previous characters in Deadpool and Alita: Battle Angel. I'm not faulting Skrein for being typecast (He's quite good at being evil lol), but I do fault Snyder for lazily cribbing the Nazi visual aesthetic for him.

I personally quite enjoy reading it all. Occasioally Alatar makes a good point and when doing so his defense of the film is entertainingly devout.

You know those old debates between religious preachers and someone like Christopher Hitchins? For the audience in general it is clear who was losing but they absolutely insisted on defending a weak position to the figurative death and claiming they were correct. In those old debates it often devolved into circular arguments and repetition. Just grab some popcorn and enjoy the fireworks.

This is an answer to all three comments, essentially:

Yeah, no question that Star Wars massively clicked with the collective psyche. Big time! Whereas Rebel Moon, although please note it remains the #1 movie on the most popular streaming platform in the world is, at best, off to a tremendously rocky start at the level of social media chatter and professional critics; and, at worst, for those that love it destined to be what I would call "niche" entertainment.

Interesting how for the term "cult classic" for a film that was originally panned but gradually got rehabilitated in public perception over the years as enjoyable for any number of reasons had positive associations. In some cases, yes, because the film is seen as "so bad it's good," sure. But it also applies to films that weren't well received initially but over time the narrative about evolved to "you know... this is actually pretty darn good!"

Anyway, in this case the tag of "Snyder cultist" obviously conjures negative associations. For those that love Snyder's work I don't think it's so much that they're rigid in that aspect as they're constantly put on the defensive. Something they value and appreciate very much is under constant attack. And believe me, it is! I moderate the r/Snyderverse sub at reddit and was a mod at r/SnyderCut so I have seen the absolute worst of that, lol. But also, even here look at the contemptuous, derisive tone that is so often used in this thread (toward the film!). And on Twitter and YT it's every bit as bad.

I don't form my convictions based on popular opinion. Hopefully that's abundantly clear by now! So for me to continue to express what I do find genuinely fascinating and intellectually stimulating about what I see in Snyder's films, is more of an exercise in making sure that this perspective gets voiced. I'm not out to convert anyone that's already weighed in as seeing the movie as dreadfully bad, no worries there. My comments are in response to the criticisms I see, but they're aimed beyond the immediate dialogue. FWIW I'm cool with you seeing whatever you see and saying whatever you have to say about it. But I assume from the nature of social media and number of views that there are lurkers out there that... again if there's even one... that can look at what I share as a fresh way of appreciating the film, then that for me makes it worthwhile.

I guess there is a sense in which I feel obligated to stand up for my own idiosyncratic perception and personal taste. I'm aware that it aggravates others. But I'm aggravated by their viewpoint on the other side, so it all balances out.

 

[Otomofan]

Now, does new RM villain resonate with audiences the same way?? Will the character have the same lasting power and iconic nature??? You think he does, but is that going to be the consensus 10 years from now?

LOL.....I didn't even know his freaking NAME until just now!! "Admiral Noble, the Jew Space-Farmer Hunter."

Sheesh. Gimme a break.

 

[T8OO]

This is an answer to all three comments, essentially:

Yeah, no question that Star Wars massively clicked with the collective psyche. Big time! Whereas Rebel Moon, although please note it remains the #1 movie on the most popular streaming platform in the world is, at best, off to a tremendously rocky start at the level of social media chatter and professional critics; and, at worst, for those that love it destined to be what I would call "niche" entertainment.

Interesting how for the term "cult classic" for a film that was originally panned but gradually got rehabilitated in public perception over the years as enjoyable for any number of reasons had positive associations. In some cases, yes, because the film is seen as "so bad it's good," sure. But it also applies to films that weren't well received initially but over time the narrative about evolved to "you know... this is actually pretty darn good!"

Anyway, in this case the tag of "Snyder cultist" obviously conjures negative associations. For those that love Snyder's work I don't think it's so much that they're rigid in that aspect as they're constantly put on the defensive. Something they value and appreciate very much is under constant attack. And believe me, it is! I moderate the r/Snyderverse sub at reddit and was a mod at r/SnyderCut so I have seen the absolute worst of that, lol. But also, even here look at the contemptuous, derisive tone that is so often used in this thread (toward the film!). And on Twitter and YT it's every bit as bad.

I don't form my convictions based on popular opinion. Hopefully that's abundantly clear by now! So for me to continue to express what I do find genuinely fascinating and intellectually stimulating about what I see in Snyder's films, is more of an exercise in making sure that this perspective gets voiced. I'm not out to convert anyone that's already weighed in as seeing the movie as dreadfully bad, no worries there. My comments are in response to the criticisms I see, but they're aimed beyond the immediate dialogue. FWIW I'm cool with you seeing whatever you see and saying whatever you have to say about it. But I assume from the nature of social media and number of views that there are lurkers out there that... again if there's even one... that can look at what I share as a fresh way of looking at the film, then that for me makes it worthwhile.

I guess there is a sense in which I feel obligated to stand up for my own idiosyncratic perception and personal taste. I'm aware that it aggravates others. But I'm aggravated by their viewpoint on the other side, so it all balances out.

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Someone finds a plot hole like the teeth (which really isn't a plot hole) and just go at it. I don't see that type of thing, to this degree, elsewhere.

 

[Alatar]

I would agree, this is the most interesting thread here. I'm enjoying reading the banter. Even when it gets a little heated there is respect.
I can not comment on RM; have not seen it. Based on the masterpiece/total trash labels I would gather it will fall somewhere in the middle for me.
Alatar has some real devotion to this movie/Snyder. It's like he's writing a dissertation. He's got all his ducks in a row.

I appreciate this, thank you!

I think it's fair to say I have taken the time to delve into what for many would be arcane subjects that a lot of people simply wouldn't be interested in or feel motivated to do as I have done. Film appreciation has always been a deep passion for me. As it is for many, many others. Nothing novel or unusual about that. But the subject of myth in particular, as C.G. Jung and Joseph Campbell defined it, is personally hugely meaningful to me. And I do find that Snyder has an honest to God flair for working with material at that level. As I've said symbolic images speak directly to the unconscious. And the unconscious speaks (indirectly) to the conscious mind.

Anyway, it's so fascinating to watch. Snyder always seems significantly out of touch in certain aspects with what to serve up to the mainstream audience to ensure mass acceptance and approval. It's not for me to diagnose him, but I would not be surprised at all if he could meet the criteria for what used to be called Asperger's Syndrome. But anyway, I admire that aspect to his filmmaking. I enjoy it.

Obviously it's possible to be an auteur and deliver exactly what the mainstream collective psyche wants to consume. That's what directors like Spielberg and Cameron have done--brilliantly. And I love their work too. But I love what is offbeat even more. I like content that pushes envelopes creatively and artistically and challenges me to cipher it out. And Snyder scratches that itch for me.

 

[Otomofan]

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Someone finds a plot hole like the teeth (which really isn't a plot hole) and just go at it. I don't see that type of thing, to this degree, elsewhere.

I see plot holes in all movies, even the ones I love. Annoys the hell out of me.

If you don't believe me, go read any of my posts in this section going back years. I'm sure I'm complaining about stuff in most of them.

The more I think about this movie, the more I think it has potential to reach "The Room" levels of bad movie notoriety, but that's based on this early PG-13 edit and the fact that it's only half a movie. I can picture drunk college kids making drinking games based on repeated viewings.

 

[Alatar]

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Someone finds a plot hole like the teeth (which really isn't a plot hole) and just go at it. I don't see that type of thing, to this degree, elsewhere.

Yeah, and the tone with which it is expressed, not for nothing. Man alive. As you said it's not even a plothole to begin with. He lost some molars in the back of his jaw, lol.

It's hard not to see that as nitpicking, or gunning for things to rip on. Because, well, frankly, it is!

 

[Alatar]

LOL.....I didn't even know his freaking NAME until just now!! "Admiral Noble, the Jew Space-Farmer Hunter."

Sheesh. Gimme a break.

He introduces himself to the leader of the village as Admiral Atticus Noble. It's quite literally the first words out of his mouth. And he speaks clearly, he doesn't mumble it, lol. I mean I get that you weren't invested during the watch--or, well, evidently. But it is plain as day in the film itself.

We will see in the R-rated extended cut what the Imperium is doing at a broader scale. How it operates more generally, etc. For this story the Imperium is basically sacking the village for all of its grain, or nearly all of it. It has no interest in exterminating any particular race, ethnicity, or culture per se. It's just about ensuring the most efficient and maximum domination, control, and subjugation of its subjects as a rule. Everything and everyone is simply a resource to be exploited, essentially. But in a way that is particularly ruthless and brutal. That revels in the brutality of it.

Not to pick on you individually, but you opened yourself to this: You just demonstrated that you are viewing the character through that template or lens of seeing him strictly as a derivative sort of character, versus being open to see him as he was intended by the writers and director. It's fine to do that, it's absolutely your right to do so and I respect that right. But if you're going to mock it in that way, it invites a rejoinder. This is all definitely part of what fascinates me about the negative reaction to a film like this.

 

[ironwez20]

One example is/was beloved by millions and millions of die-hard fans for over a decade that came from source material which again is/was loved by millions and millions of die-hard fans for nearly a century.

The other example came out 9 days ago.

Looking at this can you not put it together that there will be vastly more attachment and expectations for one over the other?

Dude made like 7 movies. He can be criticized and he headlined a large universe before. Again your just moving the goal post

 

[ironwez20]

This is the type of thing I'm talking about. Someone finds a plot hole like the teeth (which really isn't a plot hole) and just go at it. I don't see that type of thing, to this degree, elsewhere.

Bro stop. People crap on mcu, Star Wars and big movie plot holes all the time. But Snyder gets a pass? The hilarious double standard is crazy.
Like nobody cares enough to pick apart his movies like that here. It was an obvious in your face moment cause they literally show the teeth coming out his mouth and then the next seen he’s fine so of course people are gonna take notice.
lol this is why people look at you guys sideways cause you act like you are being oppressed for understanding some “higher” art that you all seemed to trick yourselves into thinking it is. It’s just a movie and a bad one. Not unwatchable but a bad movie.
This isn’t the first time on this forum or anywhere else where people destroyed a movie.
Yea Snyder has haters but every franchise does or anything popular does. That’s life.
Try being a sonic fan. The gaming media use to destroy and be biased to any game that came out. I understood to a degree cause the franchise was going downhill in 06.
Again I like some bad movies abd they get destroyed like the transformers films.

 

[ironwez20]

He introduces himself to the leader of the village as Admiral Atticus Noble. It's quite literally the first words out of his mouth. And he speaks clearly, he doesn't mumble it, lol. I mean I get that you weren't invested during the watch--or, well, evidently. But it is plain as day in the film itself.

We will see in the R-rated extended cut what the Imperium is doing at a broader scale. How it operates more generally, etc. For this story the Imperium is basically sacking the village for all of its grain, or nearly all of it. It has no interest in exterminating any particular race, ethnicity, or culture per se. It's just about ensuring the most efficient and maximum domination, control, and subjugation of its subjects as a rule. Everything and everyone is simply a resource to be exploited, essentially. But in a way that is particularly ruthless and brutal. That revels in the brutality of it.

Not to pick on you individually, but you opened yourself to this: You just demonstrated that you are viewing the character through that template or lens of seeing him strictly as a derivative sort of character, versus being open to see him as he was intended by the writers and director. It's fine to do that, it's absolutely your right to do so and I respect that right. But if you're going to mock it in that way, it invites a rejoinder. This is all definitely part of what fascinates me about the negative reaction to a film like this.

He was a super generic nazi bad guy. Like very generic. No lasting impression or no design that stands out. It’s been done a hundred times. Compares to the first time we see Vader and his Iconic helmet and breathing.

 

[T8OO]

I see plot holes in all movies, even the ones I love. Annoys the hell out of me.

If you don't believe me, go read any of my posts in this section going back years. I'm sure I'm complaining about stuff in most of them.

The more I think about this movie, the more I think it has potential to reach "The Room" levels of bad movie notoriety, but that's based on this early PG-13 edit and the fact that it's only half a movie. I can picture drunk college kids making drinking games based on repeated viewings.

The Room comment undermines everything you just said.

 

[T8OO]

Dude made like 7 movies. He can be criticized and he headlined a large universe before. Again your just moving the goal post

I've literally just spelled out the difference and you are ignoring it.