Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[Khev]

Part of the problem was that the best scene was the opening. After that nothing came close so you were high and dry for the rest of the film.

I did find myself very often while watching that this film was as good as if not better than TLC. Better villains for sure. But TLC had the Tank chase and nothing in DOD touches that scene imo , not even the beginning. I actually preferred the horse chase and buggy bike chase to the Boat scene and motorcycle/ plane chase in TLC. But TLC saved its best for last and that’s the way to do it if you are only going to have one remarkable action scene. Plus Henry Jones is better than Lady Jones. But it took the classic tank scene to squeak it out for me as the better Indy film. But I can see why people would like this better than TLC for sure and I won’t put up much of an argument. Take the tank scene out and that move is a 4/10 at best

Film need short round I don’t care what anyone says lol

I don’t think the filmmakers realize that people love Short Round now and that TOD is more well liked than it was. Hell I even love Willie Scott. I mean all anyone talked about after this years Oscar’s was that reunion between Indy and Shorty. They should have done one last reshoot.

I do agree that as a compartmentalized action sequence the tank chase in TLC is superior than any single sequence in DOD. And if I could only pick between TLC and DOD to have as the only Indy film that I could ever revisit forever going forward then I'd pick TLC since Ford is younger and the tank chase hearkens back to the thrills of Raiders and TOD. But since none of the movies do exist in a vacuum and I'll always have the first two films then to me TLC becomes more redundant and basically a sanitized less inspired version of Raiders whereas DOD really is it's own thing. And IMO it does it very well and for any of its shortcomings (none of which are dealbreakers) it still brings some really cool elements to the table that none of the other films have, which can't be said for TLC (other than the casting of Connery of course.) That's why at least right now I can confidently put DOD in the 3rd spot overall.

 

[jye4ever]

I do agree that as a compartmentalized action sequence the tank chase in TLC is superior than any single sequence in DOD. And if I could only pick between TLC and DOD to have as the only Indy film that I could ever revisit forever going forward then I'd pick TLC since Ford is younger and the tank chase hearkens back to the thrills of Raiders and TOD. But since none of the movies do exist in a vacuum and I'll always have the first two films then to me TLC becomes more redundant and basically a sanitized less inspired version of Raiders whereas DOD really is it's own thing. And IMO it does it very well and for any of its shortcomings (none of which are dealbreakers) it still brings some really cool elements to the table that none of the other films have, which can't be said for TLC (other than the casting of Connery of course.) That's why at least right now I can confidently put DOD in the 3rd spot overall.

Holy crap that’s an epic post.

JAWS yield A S A P lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

People say that DoD has nothing good after the opening --

But let's have a closer look at the action of Last Crusade: the tank chase is great -- it is the truck chase done again. But other than that, what's so great action-wise in LC? The Venice boats? Could have been great if there was a great fight on the boat as it was being chopped up -- instead, it looked a bit staged and awkward. The blimp? It could have been great with a fight as Indy is ripping through the dirigible skin thousands of feet in the air, but instead nothing happened there. The plane? Dad shot up the tail fin. The car/plane chase? Just that awkward wannabe-comedic fuselage sailing through the tunnel... and that's it. A bunch of false starts. Trailer moments that don't end with a bang or have any genuine cliff-hanging thrills.

So Last Crusade shares that with Dial of Destiny -- both have fairly un-memorable action sequences compared to others.

LC has the tank; DoD has that opening.

LC has Connery; DoD has Mikkelsen.

Hmmmm.... they're getting closer.... and closer....

 

[Khev]

People say that DoD has nothing good after the opening --

But let's have a closer look at the action of Last Crusade: the tank chase is great -- it is the truck chase done again. But other than that, what's so great action-wise in LC? The Venice boats? Could have been great if there was a great fight on the boat as it was being chopped up -- instead, it looked a bit staged and awkward. The blimp? It could have been great with a fight as Indy is ripping through the dirigible skin thousands of feet in the air, but instead nothing happened there. The plane? Dad shot up the tail fin. The car/plane chase? Just that awkward wannabe-comedic fuselage sailing through the tunnel... and that's it. A bunch of false starts. Trailer moments that don't end with a bang or have any genuine cliff-hanging thrills.

So Last Crusade shares that with Dial of Destiny -- both have fairly un-memorable action sequences compared to others.

LC has the tank; DoD has that opening.

LC has Connery; DoD has Mikkelsen.

Hmmmm.... they're getting closer.... and closer....

Yes TLC and DOD have similar highs but TLC has much, much lower lows IMO. I mean it's almost pure cringe to the point of being embarrassing to watch until Connery shows up (and then the cringe at least becomes entertaining.) DOD just feels more "respectable" from beginning to end.

 

[jye4ever]

Went for 2nd viewing lastnight with a friend.

My only 2nd viewing this year was with DOD!

I can now comfortably place both TLC and DOD as equals.

What stood out for me with DOD on 2nd viewing was that dude with the crutches getting absolutely crushed by Indy surfing steel book shelves.

Indy literally killed someone with archeological books lol

You know who else killed someone in a library with a book?

JW4!

 

[Wor-Gar]

Yes TLC and DOD have similar highs but TLC has much, much lower lows IMO. I mean it's almost pure cringe to the point of being embarrassing to watch until Connery shows up (and then the cringe at least becomes entertaining.) DOD just feels more "respectable" from beginning to end.

The silliness in LC really does kill it for me. I always hated how Last Crusade had become like a "Roger Moore Bond" movie, it even had a nod to that type of comedy when the old man is trying to change his tire but before he can replace the hub cap, the car rolls away. All he needed to do was a double-take and then guzzle from a bottle of local wine. They saved the double-take for when Indy looks to the pilot in the flaming fuselage.

Connery saved the movie, huh? Well, in an action/adventure movie, when the "quiet parts" are the best parts, something is definitely wrong.

 

[jye4ever]

No one is going to proclaim DOD a freaking masterpiece.

But like buff said this movie was being trashed beyond repair prior release yet here we are actually praising 70% of it!

How is that even possible lol

 

[Wor-Gar]

My only 2nd viewing this year was with DOD!

I can now comfortably place both TLC and DOD as equals.

I'm starting to come to that conclusion on paper. I need to see it again myself to see how much re-watchability is truly there.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm starting to come to that conclusion on paper. I need to see it again myself to see how much re-watchability is truly there.

It dragged really bad during the ocean scene.

Really really bad lol

The rest held up.

On first viewing i didn’t like wasting the big dude with a drowning but on repeat viewing it’s pretty brutal what that kid did to him…KID!

Did short round ever drown anyone?

 

[Wor-Gar]

It dragged really bad during the ocean scene.

Really really bad lol

Yikes, I was afraid of that. I've always wanted to see Indy going under the ocean -- right from Raiders I've been waiting for that -- and now finally... but its kind of boring. And CGI-ish.

I feel like the tuk-tuk chase will also be boring from now moving forward. Nothing really great happens.

Did short round ever drown anyone?

Nope. He kicked a guy in the nuts though.

 

[Khev]

Yikes, I was afraid of that. I've always wanted to see Indy going under the ocean -- right from Raiders I've been waiting for that -- and now finally... but its kind of boring. And CGI-ish.

And I couldn't really tell who was who until everyone resurfaced.

Nope. He kicked a guy in the nuts though.

He kind of gets an assist for Pat Roach's gruesome death, does that count?

 

[Wor-Gar]

He kind of gets an assist for Pat Roach's gruesome death, does that count?

I think that's a reach. Maybe if Short Round had tossed a banana peel on the conveyor belt and the Guard slipped and fell into the grinder.

 

[Khev]

I know DOD's main villains didn't have uniquely gruesome on-screen deaths but when you think about it TOD didn't either.

Chattar Lal gets injured by the spokes of that big wheel but is able to crawl away.
Pat Roach dies off camera.
And then Mola Ram has that totally goofy fall down the cliffside where he's scraping the rocks and then explicably changes direction in midair and flies perpendicular to the cliff about 30 feet over the river just so the alligators can get him but all we get is the same stock footage of some Busch Gardens gators rolling around with torn clothes while we supposedly listen to the charater's death screams, lol.

 

[Otomofan]

No one is going to proclaim DOD a freaking masterpiece.

But like buff said this movie was being trashed beyond repair prior release yet here we are actually praising 70% of it!

How is that even possible lol

Cause the handful of you heaping praise on this tire fire of a movie have a habit of constantly praising trash movies, especially when they're "new and shiny."

Maybe after 6 or 7 more viewings, you'll realize what the rest of us saw right from the start.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I know DOD's main villains didn't have uniquely gruesome on-screen deaths but when you think about it TOD didn't either.

Chattar Lal gets injured by the spokes of that big wheel but is able to crawl away.
Pat Roach dies off camera.
And then Mola Ram has that totally goofy fall down the cliffside where he's scraping the rocks and then explicably changes direction in midair and flies perpendicular to the cliff about 30 feet over the river just so the alligators can get him but all we get is the same stock footage of some Busch Gardens gators rolling around with torn clothes while we supposedly listen to the charater's death screams, lol.

Well, as consolation, Mola Ram got the Wilhelm scream when ripped apart by the gators (or is it crocs?). I did like that they bothered to add the "head skid" while he fell though.

Chief Guard's death was as much off-screen as the German Mechanic propeller blade death... so that's a good death. Except for the Guard's ridiculous "help me" expression... and the fact that Indy almost tried.

Chatter Lal has to be the lamest villain in all the Indy-verse. Certainly the lamest "demise".

 

[Khev]

Maybe after 6 or 7 more viewings, you'll realize what the rest of us saw right from the start.

Any movie that I'm able to enjoy for 6 or 7 viewings before realizing it's "bad" is a win for me.

 

[choombaz]

And then Mola Ram has that totally goofy fall down the cliffside where he's scraping the rocks and then explicably changes direction in midair and flies perpendicular to the cliff about 30 feet over the river just so the alligators can get him but all we get is the same stock footage of some Busch Gardens gators rolling around with torn clothes while we supposedly listen to the charater's death screams, lol.

Oh I love that death. I understand your points but I think that was the first time I ever saw a character fall downwards that fast and the camera followed him down. Even the average effects don’t bother me.

Holy crap!!!!

Never even heard of it???

14.5 million dollar budget, 2000 less screens, and will actually turn a profit - just knocked off DUD.

If this doesn't tell Hollywood they need to get their **** together, I doubt anything will.

Yeah I just looked it up. Jim Cavaziel - when was the last time he had a hit like this? And it’s about sex trafficking.

7. Germany opening - DOD
8. Ravenwood’s bar fight - Raiders
9. Basket Chase - Raiders
10. Fertility Idol scene - Raiders
11. Club Obi Wan - TOD

You can keep the rest

I often agree with you JAWS but I do not understand how you can put the DOD opening above all of these. They are so unbelievably iconic and technically superior. The bar fight I have studied and studied, it’s one of the greatest action scenes of all time. The framing, the blocking, the split diopter shots, the sound effects, the humor, the whisky, the stunt work. Truly extraordinary.

 

[davejames]

People say that DoD has nothing good after the opening --

But let's have a closer look at the action of Last Crusade: the tank chase is great -- it is the truck chase done again. But other than that, what's so great action-wise in LC? The Venice boats? Could have been great if there was a great fight on the boat as it was being chopped up -- instead, it looked a bit staged and awkward. The blimp? It could have been great with a fight as Indy is ripping through the dirigible skin thousands of feet in the air, but instead nothing happened there. The plane? Dad shot up the tail fin. The car/plane chase? Just that awkward wannabe-comedic fuselage sailing through the tunnel... and that's it. A bunch of false starts. Trailer moments that don't end with a bang or have any genuine cliff-hanging thrills.

So Last Crusade shares that with Dial of Destiny -- both have fairly un-memorable action sequences compared to others.

LC has the tank; DoD has that opening.

LC has Connery; DoD has Mikkelsen.

Hmmmm.... they're getting closer.... and closer....

You're forgetting the opening with Young Indy on the circus train, the awesome fight on the Coronado, and the sidecar motorcycle chase. So I'd say TLC had plenty of fun and memorable action in it.

I agree the movie has a slightly cheesy tone and probably leans a little too heavily on humor, but the dialogue is so snappy and well-written that I can forgive it. And Connery is just a blast to watch every second he's on screen.

For me the only memorable action in DOD is the opening scene, so it's no contest whatsoever.

 

[The Buffinator]

Cause the handful of you heaping praise on this tire fire of a movie have a habit of constantly praising trash movies, especially when they're "new and shiny."

Maybe after 6 or 7 more viewings, you'll realize what the rest of us saw right from the start.

Could I borrow a cup of self-loathing from you before my next viewing? That could go a long way toward changing my opinion.

 

[choombaz]

You're forgetting the opening with Young Indy on the circus train, the awesome fight on the Coronado, and the sidecar motorcycle chase. So I'd say TLC had plenty of fun and memorable action in it.

I agree the movie has a slightly cheesy tone and probably leans a little too heavily on humor, but the dialogue is so snappy and well-written that I can forgive it. And Connery is just a blast to watch every second he's on screen.

For me the only memorable action in DOD is the opening scene, so it's no contest whatsoever.

I did edit an earlier post with this list. I added and removed the Coronado fight a few times, I thought it was too brief, but I’ve put it back

Truck chase ROTLA
Raven bar fight ROTLA
Escape from the temple opening ROTLA
Mechanic fight ROTLA
Cairo marketplace / swordsman ROTLA
Mine cart chase TOD
Club Obi-Wan opening TOD
Tank chase TLC
Rope bridge TOD
Voodoo doll and Escape from the mine TOD
Motorcycle castle escape TLC
Ahh Venice boat chase TLC
Dogfight TLC
Motorcycle chase with the Soviets KOCS
Train escape DOD
Circus train chase opening TLC
Rickshaw chase DOD
Coronado fight TLC
Finale DOD
Warehouse escape KOCS
Jungle chase KOCS
Boat fight DOD
NYC horse chase DOD