1/6 Hot Toys MMS699 & MMS700 ROTJ Darth Vader

[Vortex]

It doesn't match the "I am your father" moment, but what could?
I know what you mean with this. When I saw ROTJ in the theatre as a kid, bushy eyebrows old guy was a bit of a "is that it?" moment.
But what could George have done? What would have satisfied young me after that time?
More hideous scarring? Some sort of cybernetics?

As an adult I actually like the reveal. Inside that monstrous suit, he was just a man. He's let go of his hatred and now here's this dying old man with a kindly face.

I think a slash to Vader's mask/helmet during the fight (like Obi-Wan) would have been shocking - and then you just leave it at that visual. He can still see and talk to Luke (with his own eyes), say his few lines , die, and then funeral pyre.

Basically A lighter version of this: visual:

 

[Felinx]

I think a slash to Vader's mask/helmet during the fight (like Obi-Wan) would have been shocking - and then you just leave it at that visual. He can still see and talk to Luke (with his own eyes), say his few lines , die, and then funeral pyre.

Basically A lighter version of this: visual:

Wow, Ani was so-soooooo lucky. I mean that swinging lightsaber blade totally vaporized that helmet all the way through... yet didn't even touch his face, only an inch inside. Look at that!

That's the greatest "always wear a helmet" safety advert ever.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But the point was: Vader wasn't a Monster after all... he was just a Man.

I too like the monster because I am childish, but that doesn't make a better moral, nor give character development.

 

[Vortex]

But the point was: Vader wasn't a Monster after all... he was just a Man.

I too like the monster because I am childish, but that doesn't make a better moral, nor give character development.

We could have had both though. Vader tossing Palps over the side was the redemption. I mean, just Imagine Luke doing what Obi-Wan did to Vader back in 83 with Vader's voice glitching in and out instead of just losing a hand and then Palpatine's intimidation. We would have loved it then and still loved it. I mean that was the best thing to come out of that show IMO. Not the actual fight or even the logic of letting Vader live - but the "speech" was on point. I felt that, Hayden did real good there.

 

[Wor-Gar]

You can't have both.

 

[Vortex]

You can't have both.

But you can clearly still see Anakin's face through the mask and while perhaps illogical to be so lucky that the blade didn't slice through the face as well (it's just movie magic anyway) - you could have still had that dynamic at the end with a lighter Vader while still preserving some mystery and sadness to the character. I'm not a fan of removing the helmet in any of this stuff really.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But you can clearly still see Anakin's face through the mask and while perhaps illogical to be so lucky that the blade didn't slice through the face as well (it's just movie magic anyway) - you could have still had that dynamic at the end with a lighter Vader while still preserving some mystery and sadness to the character. I'm not a fan of removing the helmet in any of this stuff really.

You can't have The Monster AND the "he's just a man"... it doesn't work. Dilutes both.

 

[Vortex]

You can't have The Monster AND the "he's just a man"... it doesn't work. Dilutes both.

He stopped being the monster when he saved his son. But before that he was very much the monster and the sliced helmet reminds us of that. Yes he was internally redeemed but that slight reminder of who he was and what he did for so many years should still be there imo. It's a powerful image of the light and dark that Anakin represented in his life.

But I get it you liked the reveal and that's cool.

Edit:
I will say that this figure is a lot cooler than the scene it represents. But I'm still glad Vader wasn't removing his helmet every 5 minutes like Kylo Ren or Boba Fett.

 

[jye4ever]

Bothtex

 

[Wor-Gar]

He stopped being the monster when he saved his son. But before that he was very much the monster and the sliced helmet reminds us of that.

I think Lucas was trying to have the Vader mask be "The Machine" -- the cold heartless monster that can consume us all if we allow it; technology crushing the human spirit and all that -- but the Man inside was always just a Man... a man surrounded and utterly engulf by The Machine, the Monster. Freeing "the man" inside in any way -- even through a crack -- would break the symbolism of 'total control of the Machine'. Anakin (at that time) was the ultimate expression of the Ghost in the Machine; the soul that could be saved.

 

[Vortex]

I think Lucas was trying to have the Vader mask be "The Machine" -- the cold heartless monster that can consume us all if we allow it; technology crushing the human spirit and all that -- but the Man inside was always just a Man... a man surrounded and utterly engulf by The Machine, the Monster. Freeing "the man" inside in any way -- even through a crack -- would break the symbolism of 'total control of the Machine'. Anakin (at that time) was the ultimate expression of the Ghost in the Machine; the soul that could be saved.

Going back to my original post and remember I felt this way in 1983 when I was 11, back before any of the stuff that came after. The image just didn't resonate with me even though I was fine with the idea so I get where you are coming from as well. He just looked too nice and warm, not threatening at all and yeah perhaps that was the point but it was just a bit - sudden.

Going back to my idea of Luke taking a slice at that mask perhaps in a effort to remind his father that he was more than just a machine but also done while in anger and then everything plays out like it did with Palps but maybe even more intense because Luke in his mind tried to take his fathers head off. It could have also been a nice throwback to the cave scene with Luke making sure he wasn't "in there" so to speak because I would imagine that image haunted him. But yeah, it would have went like this. When Luke was wailing away he would have taken the hand and then immediately struck the mask for a double whammy. Boom Boom (audience gasps) Luke pulls up and looks at his own hand and then his fathers face.

And it would have rhymed and we all know how much George loves that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But it already rhymed -- when Luke looked at his hand and realized he's becoming his father.

Face it, you just want to see an ugly, hideous face inside there, seething with anger. It is really just that simple...

 

[DarthAlias]

Only reason we got half Anakin faces before the full reveal was the symbolism. Between Ahsoka and Obi and then ultimately Luke revealing Vader’s fate. His redemption. While many expected a monster I’m sure from the reveal, he was just a basic old man, frail and all. Nothing without his lifeline being the machine.

 

[Vortex]

But it already rhymed -- when Luke looked at his hand and realized he's becoming his father.

Face it, you just want to see an ugly, hideous face inside there, seething with anger. It is really just that simple...

Yeah but it could have rhymed even more

And I am pretty sure I have expressed something I would have liked to have seen. Perhaps when his mask was sliced in half he looked evil with the Sith eyes and all but then after the sacrifice all of that went away and he became "lighter". David Prowse probably would have been fine with some scarring but I guess he couldn't act.

 

[Gipetto0812]

Very interesting discussion. I don’t have much to add really aside from saying that I felt very much the same way as @Vortex did with the Vader/Shaw reveal. He was still supposed be this very powerful and real threat to the rebellion and Galaxy. Even near defeat/death, he was strong enough to lift the Emperor above his head and throw over the railing while getting shocked with force lightning; yet, he ends up being just this frail old man when the mask comes off-that was disappointing to me.

At least the HT sculpt doesn’t look so sad as his last moments did, but also didn’t go to the extreme of the Sideshow reveal Shaw sculpts from the original deluxe figure or the V1 Mythos.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Judge me by my size, do you...?

 

[TheClient]

Inside every Sith is a sad, lonely, broken old man.

 

[FlyAndFight]

Inside every Sith is a sad, lonely, broken old man.

 

[jsgord58]

I think the whole figure is a mess, I mean look at this stumpy looking mf.

View attachment 656537

Is that Rick Moranis from Spaceballs under there?

 

[mrred]

The beauty of old films in general compared to nowadays was their subtlety. We didn't need to see a grizly husk peering out of the mask when we already got a sneak of his head in Empire (probably destroyed my vhs looking at that as a kid) and all the intensity in the duel beforehand. I think it was perfect and thinking about it, probably lean on it being my favourite Star Wars film.

Plus it would have been even more jarring when you're cutting to teddy bears every few minutes.