The Dark Knight Rises - 1/6th scale Batman Armory with Bruce Wayne Collectible Set

[user 72759]

The only thing i see wrong with the cowl for the hot toys Dark Knight Rises armory, is that the eyes are just too narrow, as the eyes on the DX19 are rounded, just like the cowl in the movie.......

You know what, I agree with you. The DX19 cowl is a dimensionally 100% perfect 1:6 scale recreation of the screen used cowl. I feel like such a fraud for selling hundreds of sculpts that I lied about being based on the screen used cowl. As you can see mine doesn’t have the bird beak, sloping brow, widely spaced short ears, narrow jaw, narrow detail-free temples, or nearly horizontal lines under the eyes that are present on the real cowl and the DX19.

I especially failed to capture how the DX19, and real cowl mind you, look like his face is slowly sliding off his head.

 

[haytil]

I disagree with this perspective. They're not a monopoly simply because they are a sole distributor in the US.

It's not a perspective, it's just a fact - you're looking at monopolistic behavior here. Not because they're the sole distributor, but because they are the exclusive distributor.

The fact that no other retailer can acquire stock from Hot Toys - to either sell or distribute - even if they want to is why Sideshow's position is exclusive and hence why it constitutes a monopoly. This was not always the case.

If Hot Toys was located in the US they'd be their own distributor and set the pricing.

There was a time when they were their own distributor (or had multiple distributors in the US). They did set the pricing. They didn't have to be in the US to do either of these things.

Most overseas manufacturers use a US distributor or wholesaler to sell and transport inventory to US retailers. And it’s not at all unusual for a distributor, or a manufacturer itself, to also act as retailer and compete with the same retailers they supply. There are not many products these days that you can’t buy from multiple points in the supply chain. It’s also entirely normal that retailers must maintain a certain price point as a condition of carrying a product(line), or else lose the ability to continue retailing that product.

it's all perfectly normal. You may not like it, but it's the way many overseas companies sell in the US market. That's why retailers like Amazon and Best Buy etc. are prevented from offering discounts on tons of different items, like Apple products and designer handbags and on and on.

You are arguing that this monopoly is "perfectly normal" and "not at all unusual," but that's beside the point. At no point did I say that this was unusual, unheard-of, or "not normal."

I simply pointed out that it is harmful to us as consumers. Again, that's simply a fact - based on the actual practical data as well as the theoretical laws of economics - and not a perspective or opinion.

It didn't used to be this way, it never had to be this way, and it sucks that it is this way.

Monopolies are the natural product of an extended, long-term capitalist system. That's "normal," but it's not desirable from a consumer perspective - which is why many places, including America, have laws and systems designed to disrupt that natural end result and prevent it from forming (though in the case of America, those laws and systems are often ignored, due to corruption in the system - hence, America's well-known monopoly problem).

 

[nm.ct]

You know what, I agree with you. The DX19 cowl is a dimensionally 100% perfect 1:6 scale recreation of the screen used cowl. I feel like such a fraud for selling hundreds of sculpts that I lied about being based on the screen used cowl. As you can see mine doesn’t have the bird beak, sloping brow, widely spaced short ears, narrow jaw, narrow detail-free temples, or nearly horizontal lines under the eyes that are present on the real cowl and the DX19.

I especially failed to capture how the DX19, and real cowl mind you, look like his face is slowly sliding off his head.
View attachment 634901View attachment 634902View attachment 634903View attachment 634904
View attachment 634905

Oh boy....can't say we didn't warn him

 

[Rayman]

The DX19's cowl matches up perfectly with cowl in the movie, as the eye's on the cowl of the DX19 are rounded, just like the cowl in the movie.........

The only thing i see wrong with the cowl for the hot toys Dark Knight Rises armory, is that the eyes are just too narrow, as the eyes on the DX19 are rounded, just like the cowl in the movie.......

By adding those up, are you not seeing other differences between DX19 and armory? I mean… I do think the armory is all in all worse because the eyes are such an important part of how we see a face, while we are less conscious of head sizes or shapes overall (this entire forum works a social experiment on this argument btw). But still, there are a bunch of improvements in the armory one when it comes to some of the shapes of the cowl, which they’ve rounded out. DX19 had a bit of a Birdman look to it. I just don’t get why they did the eyes so much worse in the armory version (DX19 is not perfect neither when it comes to the eye holes, but way closer to the real thing).

Lets be clear, OT is the freakest of freaks (in a good way) when it comes to the cowl and it’s perfectly ok not to need that level of detail or what not, but he’s undeniably right. There are lots of things wrong with DX19’s cowl, little things that do add up. Wether you or others think it’s enough to make or break a fig, that’s a whole different debate. Where each one of us drops the “good enough” line for a set price is entirely personal. How things really are vs how they should be isn’t.

 

[RulerOfAsgard]

Definitely need better angle pics, but the bottom of the armory eye holes seem more angular like the movie cowl and the steeper brow also seems more accurate.

 

[Spicedaddy]

The Armory nose looks like Batman has a cocaine habit.

 

[DiFabio]

Man, all these comparisons and cowl pictures.

One thing I noticed, every time a shot of him from TDKR is used for reference, he’s got the goofy open mouth breather look going on.

Hurrr

DURRR

HURRR DURRRR

YOURRNOTANORDINARCITIZZZENTHATMADETHECLIMBTOGIVEACHILDATRIGGGGGGERTISSHOWHISWORLDENDEDDDDD!


Since the new Hot Toys cowl supposedly won’t have interchangeable faceplates, I hope the one face they use is an open goofy mouth.


Accurate or not, I never did like his cowl in Dark Knight/Dark Knight Rises. Stubby ears, soft, rounded features, the bulbous lightbulb head, he always looked like some sort of Birdman. If you took out the ears and made the cowl green instead of black, Bale would look like the Mask. The big head look and temple area is so exaggerated looking.

Then he’s got the tech-y William Dafoe Green Goblin costume to boot.

Overrated suit. Makes for a good toy though which is why I still buy the figures and dolls.

 

[rory]

It's not a perspective, it's just a fact - you're looking at monopolistic behavior here. Not because they're the sole distributor, but because they are the exclusive distributor.

The fact that no other retailer can acquire stock from Hot Toys - to either sell or distribute - even if they want to is why Sideshow's position is exclusive and hence why it constitutes a monopoly. This was not always the case.



There was a time when they were their own distributor (or had multiple distributors in the US). They did set the pricing. They didn't have to be in the US to do either of these things.



You are arguing that this monopoly is "perfectly normal" and "not at all unusual," but that's beside the point. At no point did I say that this was unusual, unheard-of, or "not normal."

I simply pointed out that it is harmful to us as consumers. Again, that's simply a fact - based on the actual practical data as well as the theoretical laws of economics - and not a perspective or opinion.

It didn't used to be this way, it never had to be this way, and it sucks that it is this way.

Monopolies are the natural product of an extended, long-term capitalist system. That's "normal," but it's not desirable from a consumer perspective - which is why many places, including America, have laws and systems designed to disrupt that natural end result and prevent it from forming (though in the case of America, those laws and systems are often ignored, due to corruption in the system - hence, America's well-known monopoly problem).

I still disagree with your perspective. Hot Toys uses Sideshow as a sole distributor in the US. I see no problem with that. It’s common and practical. That is entirely Hot Toy’s choice, and was likely made as it became beneficial to them. Your complaint that no US retailer can order directly from Hot Toys even if they want to is the whole point of Hot Toys having set up a distributor in the US. Your chief complaint is that they’ve become too expensive because of this, which is also a relative term, is more a result of there simply being few other high end 1/6 collectible manufacturers. Hot Toys will charge whatever people are willing to pay. Welcome to the world of exclusive high end collectible luxury items. Art, sneakers, couture, luxury cars, etc etc. etc. If you’re expecting it to change, or some government regulation to keep high end toys affordable for all, don’t hold your breath.

I’m not trying to be critical of your thinking on this. And I’m not trying to start some flame war or anything. You clearly have thoughtful insights on it. I respect that you see all of it differently. Let’s just agree to disagree and leave it be.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

I'm curious what people think about the permanently painted on "dew' effect on the armory?

I think it’s gonna looks really damn weird when I do pictures of it in the day time
Unless I take a $500 figure outside in the rain for pictures, in that case please slap some sense into me

 

[jinkazama]

Man, all these comparisons and cowl pictures.

One thing I noticed, every time a shot of him from TDKR is used for reference, he’s got the goofy open mouth breather look going on.

View attachment 634968

Hurrr


View attachment 634969

DURRR




View attachment 634970

HURRR DURRRR

View attachment 634971

YOURRNOTANORDINARCITIZZZENTHATMADETHECLIMBTOGIVEACHILDATRIGGGGGGERTISSHOWHISWORLDENDEDDDDD!


Since the new Hot Toys cowl supposedly won’t have interchangeable faceplates, I hope the one face they use is an open goofy mouth.


Accurate or not, I never did like his cowl in Dark Knight/Dark Knight Rises. Stubby ears, soft, rounded features, the bulbous lightbulb head, he always looked like some sort of Birdman. If you took out the ears and made the cowl green instead of black, Bale would look like the Mask. The big head look and temple area is so exaggerated looking.


View attachment 634992

View attachment 634993

View attachment 634996

View attachment 634997






Then he’s got the tech-y William Dafoe Green Goblin costume to boot.


View attachment 634994


Overrated suit. Makes for a good toy though which is why I still buy the figures and dolls.

 

[rory]

There's nothing wrong with maintaining price points.. the problem is the price point itself. It's based on excessive greed and hey that's their business. Sideshow abuses their role as distributor and absolutely operates with the intention of being a monopoly. They strong arm not just US retailers but also retailers across the globe. One example of this is that US retail shops that work with them can't carry certain brands/products that Sideshow dictates. In fact, these retailers can't even import any Hot Toys if they wanted to for whatever reason (Cheaper cost, earlier release, exclusives, etc) without Sideshow completely shutting them out. You MUST get all your stock from them and only what they offer you. Oh and they decide when you get stock (After they fulfill the majority of their own retail customer orders). I won't even mention how they bully overseas retailers..

As more high quality licensed 1/6 scale and statue companies pop up that compete with their current offerings, we'll see just how much Sideshow wants to control the market. Inart is a small example. Despite their products having an Asia exclusive license, NOTHING is stopping our favorite US retailers from importing these products for their own customers. So why don't they? Unfortunately they are at the mercy of Sideshow. Which US retailers carry Inart? I can only name two and they clearly don't work with Sideshow. Good luck to Sideshow because collectors won't always want their products or those of any brand they distribute for. Collectors will find a way to get whatever it is that they want. So yeah.. not sustainable business and not the most retailer/collector-friendly IMO

This is riddled with inaccuracies. US retailers can't order direct from Hot Toys, because Hot Toys chose Sideshow as their sole US distributor. Not because Sideshow won't let them. And insisting that "NOTHING is stopping our favorite US retailers from importing" InArt figures that are only licensed for sale in Asia. Really? Do you really think InArt is going to wholesale figures they can't legally retail in the US directly to retailers in the US? Risk losing those licenses altogether, etc. etc. That's not how licensing works mate. But it doesn't matter. Hot Toys isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and I doubt their relationship with Sideshow is either.

 

[jsgord58]

Maybe I'm biased because I own the original armory but this latest one leaves me cold. The look of the armory seems more appropriate for Mr. Freeze. I think of blocks of ice when I see it. Maybe that's why it leaves me cold.

 

[haytil]

I still disagree with your perspective. Hot Toys uses Sideshow as a sole distributor in the US. I see no problem with that.

Ok. If you enjoy paying more, rather than less, for the same product, then I can see why you wouldn't have a problem with it.

I certainly would love it if you could find for me a single example of another collector who wouldn't prefer to pay less for the same figures.

It’s common and practical.

"Common" and "practical" are not synonymous with "right," nor is it something that consumers should be happy with.

It is "common" and "practical" that Comcast charges an arm and a leg for a service that costs them pennies on the dollar to provide - along with ****** service - because of their monopoly. But how many people really enjoy dealing with the cable company in America?

That is entirely Hot Toy’s choice, and was likely made as it became beneficial to them.

What is amusing to me is you make this entirely about Hot Toys, when part of my point was that it was ultimately *Sideshow* that was screwing us the most. It isn't Hot Toys that's being anti-competitive by seizing a monopoly, it was Sideshow. Sure, Hot Toys is going along with it and probably benefitting from it (no doubt Sideshow is paying them a premium for the effort - either in the form of a direct payoff or higher prices), but it's the anti-American behavior of an anti-American company that I'm calling out here.

Your complaint that no US retailer can order directly from Hot Toys even if they want to is the whole point of Hot Toys having set up a distributor in the US.

This is a tautology.

I know what an exclusive distribution deal is, you don't have to tell me that the whole point of an exclusive distribution deal is to keep the distributor exclusive.

Your chief complaint is that they’ve become too expensive because of this, which is also a relative term...

First, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said they are "too expensive."

I said they are "more expensive."

Second, "more expensive" is not a relative term, it's an absolute term. It's a fact.

2 is bigger than 1. 3 is bigger than 2. Those aren't relative statements, those are absolute statements and are always true. That's just math.

...is more a result of there simply being few other high end 1/6 collectible manufacturers.

There are multiple factors in the price rises. Sideshow becoming an exclusive distributor has demonstrably been one factor that has had nothing to do with the number of 1/6 manufacturers. The number of 1/6 manufacturers didn't magically go down when the exclusive deal was signed, yet the prices went up. (In fact, the number of manufacturers seems to have exploded in recent years, yet Hot Toys' prices have done anything but fall).

And even when there are multiple factors in play, that doesn't mean that only one factor is worth considering or discussing, to the exclusion of all others.

If you’re expecting it to change, or some government regulation to keep high end toys affordable for all, don’t hold your breath.

I don't expect it to change, nor do I expect any kind of government intervention, and I don't know why you are talking about either, since I never suggested the possibility or expectation in this case.

What I did was call out the ****** deal that Sideshow made. ****** for hobbyists, that is. s6001 said they've done more harm than good for this hobby. Nine Inch Nails asked "How so?" And I provided an example of the harm they've done for this hobby.

Post-exclusivity deal (more than a decade ago), I don't know what they've done to improve the hobby, and I can certainly point out multiple harms they've done (several of them directly as a result of the exclusivity deal). You can argue that it's in their financial interest to behave in such a way, and that such things happen in different fields all the time, and I will never disagree, but that doesn't mean that we've benefited, which is what the discussion was about.

The conversation was never about what was normal - it was about the harm that has been done. I don't know why you are trying to twist the argument into being about something else.

 

[haytil]

Having thought about this product over the past few days, I'm leaning less and less towards making a purchase on release.

I like the Armory. I've been waiting for it for more than a decade.

But the statue is a real buzzkill. 600 dollars is a lot of money, and the value-for-money just isn't there, especially since I don't need the actual "Batman" figure. The TDK armory was a much better value, in each of the three tiers, and at a better price point. I liked the figures it came with. Even if the TDK armory were released today for 600 dollars, with the extra figures, it'd be a far better value for money than this thing.

I'm convinced this'll be a peg warmer (just as TDK Armory was, despite being a better value for money). So maybe I'll wait for the inevitable discount.

And if not? I've already got a cool armory. I've got ~80 TDK Trilogy figures. I don't need another armory, and I think I'd rather spend the money on a few extra figures for my Keaton or Pattinson Batman movie collection, both of which are an order of magnitude smaller and would benefit far more from expansion.

 

[Frenchy]

 

[rory]

I guess I still disagree with your assessment. I don't see why we can't just agree to disagree, like I said before. What's the big deal? You've said your piece. Let it go.

This is a tautology.

I know what an exclusive distribution deal is, you don't have to tell me that the whole point of an exclusive distribution deal is to keep the distributor exclusive.



First, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said they are "too expensive."

I said they are "more expensive."

Second, "more expensive" is not a relative term, it's an absolute term. It's a fact.

2 is bigger than 1. 3 is bigger than 2. Those aren't relative statements, those are absolute statements and are always true. That's just math.



There are multiple factors in the price rises. Sideshow becoming an exclusive distributor has demonstrably been one factor that has had nothing to do with the number of 1/6 manufacturers. The number of 1/6 manufacturers didn't magically go down when the exclusive deal was signed, yet the prices went up. (In fact, the number of manufacturers seems to have exploded in recent years, yet Hot Toys' prices have done anything but fall).

And even when there are multiple factors in play, that doesn't mean that only one factor is worth considering or discussing, to the exclusion of all others.



I don't expect it to change, nor do I expect any kind of government intervention, and I don't know why you are talking about either, since I never suggested the possibility or expectation in this case.

What I did was call out the ****** deal that Sideshow made. ****** for hobbyists, that is. s6001 said they've done more harm than good for this hobby. Nine Inch Nails asked "How so?" And I provided an example of the harm they've done for this hobby.

Post-exclusivity deal (more than a decade ago), I don't know what they've done to improve the hobby, and I can certainly point out multiple harms they've done (several of them directly as a result of the exclusivity deal). You can argue that it's in their financial interest to behave in such a way, and that such things happen in different fields all the time, and I will never disagree, but that doesn't mean that we've benefited, which is what the discussion was about.

The conversation was never about what was normal - it was about the harm that has been done. I don't know why you are trying to twist the argument into being about something else.

 

[user 72759]

View attachment 635029

Now dew it up

 

[DiFabio]

Having thought about this product over the past few days, I'm leaning less and less towards making a purchase on release.

I like the Armory. I've been waiting for it for more than a decade.

But the statue is a real buzzkill. 600 dollars is a lot of money, and the value-for-money just isn't there, especially since I don't need the actual "Batman" figure. The TDK armory was a much better value, in each of the three tiers, and at a better price point. I liked the figures it came with. Even if the TDK armory were released today for 600 dollars, with the extra figures, it'd be a far better value for money than this thing.

I'm convinced this'll be a peg warmer (just as TDK Armory was, despite being a better value for money). So maybe I'll wait for the inevitable discount.

And if not? I've already got a cool armory. I've got ~80 TDK Trilogy figures. I don't need another armory, and I think I'd rather spend the money on a few extra figures for my Keaton or Pattinson Batman movie collection, both of which are an order of magnitude smaller and would benefit far more from expansion.

The TDK Armory is way cooler looking anyway. The folding tool drawers, the cage, it’s awesome. It has way more doodads too, my favorite being the blow guns and ninja nunchakus. Not only does it look cool, there’s tons of value packed into it.

Never liked the TDKR Armory. It’s minimalism at its worse. There’s nothing visually interesting about it. The acrylic/plexiglass look makes it appear cheap and I get Wonder Woman’s Invisible Jet or Stadium Rafter/Sports Complex vibes from it. What do you get? A couple of batarangs, grapple guns, and gas canisters. Where is his rebreather for underwater missions? Where does the EMP rifle and Sticky bomb guns go, why don’t they fit? The nice thing about the TDK one is the amount of extras built into the design. He had multiple spare belts, weapons and gadgets which is in character with how obsessive Batman would be. TDKR’s just isn’t that. The whole thing feels like an after thought. His Batcave was so disappointing after waiting 7 years to see it rebuilt. All they did was take the components of TDK’s Batbunker and throw them into the Begins Batcave. RISE platforms and all.

I’m glad it was released for the people that want one though. I know how it feels to wait over a decade for Hot Toys to finally get their asses in gear. I don’t think sales are going to be the best, but I hope it gets the 1989 Batcave greenlit. I want those computers and hopefully the Suit Vault Armory. That thing is the genesis for all movie Batmen and looks awesome. Before all the fancy underwater platforms, movie Batman used to keep his gear in a vault. It’s minimalism and simplicity . . . done right.

The Schumacher and Snyder ones were too ostentatious, like it was a museum piece on display for Batman to show his friends. The ‘89 and TDK ones were the most practical.

 

[Rotfish]

View attachment 634971

YOURRNOTANORDINARCITIZZZENTHATMADETHECLIMBTOGIVEACHILDATRIGGGGGGERTISSHOWHISWORLDENDEDDDDD!

Lost it here.

 

[user 72759]

The TDK Armory is way cooler looking anyway. The folding tool drawers, the cage, it’s awesome. It has way more doodads too, my favorite being the blow guns and ninja nunchakus. Not only does it look cool, there’s tons of value packed into it.

All they did was take the components of TDK’s Batbunker and throw them into the Begins Batcave. RISE platforms and all.

These statements are at odds with each other. How can everything be completely different and also just be the same things thrown into a different setting?

Personally, I loved the aesthetic of everything more and more as the films progressed. Everything felt so real world and high tech. No unnecessary psychotic ego trophies cluttering the batcave either.