White actors taking roles from people of color .......(of course)

[Lejuan]

This is true.

 

[devilof76]

I asked for any information, evidence, or proof that this theory was incorrect. No one offered anything.

Yes, we've all had fun with your failure to grasp the onus of proof. Maybe we can all throw tomatoes at you in lieu of vain attempts at proving a negative again sometime.

 

[KitFisto]

Now i feel kinda bad for wee wee lol, at least wwejedi kinda had a sense of humor, must be exausting to be ali.
The funny thing is that theres even LESS black musicians in rock and metal music (rock/ metal is like 90% white) yet he still uses that kiss avatar

Alis avatar is hypocritical. He should be as mad metal is not more tolerant.
Theres not a lot of women in it either

Gene is a Jew. He's sticking with minorities

 

[Shawpaw]

Gene is a Jew. He's sticking with minorities

LOL!!!!!

 

[darthkush]

wow, took a long time to read through most of the thread.

I think it's like this and I feel most will not want to be as blunt. Ali, the answer to your question is simple: They don't care. When an character that is traditionally white is then played by a person of color or redone as an person of color(i.e. the black female Iron man or the black female rocketeer, etc.) they are angry because they want white heroes to stay white. They don't want change. In some cases, that is not necessarily a bad thing..but it can be. I think there truly are those who don't like the change because they don't want those characters to change at all and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. The problem is many of their seeming inability to accept there is a problem and that is does exist. How angry should people be at female ghostbusters? It's okay to not like it but the vitriol being thrown is too much. It suggest an fundamental hate that can not be ignored. It is the same thing for the female rocketeer thing. I, personally, would prefer a film where maybe Cliff Secord is missing and this new young black chick has to find him or rescue him and is the Rocketeer in the interim. Maybe Cliff(or even an very old Peevy) can help train her or at the very least just appear in the film in some capacity as their original characters. For all we know, this maybe the actual plan. The film is called ROCKETEERS(implying more than one). We may all be jumping the gun on reactions to that. It is an different angle we haven't yet seen. You are correct, it's entirely feasible as a concept, however improbable and it is something that could be a great film as well.

But here's the rub. For everyone who just doesn't want an Rocketeer who isn't Cliff, there's several who just don't want a black superhero period. Why is that? Because some people have an really pathetic inability to identify with any character that doesn't look like them. Sad, but true. I know black people who don't like Star Wars because they feel it's, "white, people *****" and they can only identify with films that feature predominatly black casts. That's stupid. Not that they want to watch films with black casts but that they feel they can't accept one that DOESN'T have a black cast. As I said, it's everywhere. The new Luke Cage show on Netflix and Black Panther's upcoming film? I know some white fans that have watched every Marvel film and loved Civil War but are "unsure if they want to watch Black Panther" and some that loved Daredevil and Jessica Jones but..."aren't sure if Luke Cage is for them".

I think diversity and change are good. I'm of two minds about a lot of what we're seeing now. I'll post more soon. I've gotta go play with my kid

 

[hoodonit00]

So to sum up your post for the TLDR crowd. White male=bad. Thanks for pushing one more fault on us. As if the weight isn't crushing enough.

 

[Shawpaw]

So to sum up your post for the TLDR crowd. White male=bad. Thanks for pushing one more fault on us. As if the weight isn't crushing enough.

Oh geez. Is that accurate? I was victim of TL/DR lol

 

[hoodonit00]

No, it's not accurate

I beg to differ. He uses thinly veiled racism as reasons why whites get upset when a super hero changes color. He uses feminism the same way. Could it be that some of us just don't buy into the agenda that the powers that be are pushing? Trying to push diversity down our throats by changing a white super hero to a black one is the wrong way to go about this. Taking a beloved movie that didn't need to be remade and changing the all male cast to a female cast just for the sake of diversity is again, the wrong way to go about it. You want to make a new black super hero? Go for it. Make him interesting and I will be a fan. Do you not think there would be an outcry if they made a new Blade movie and Blade was a white guy? Sure there would be.

 

[Lejuan]

I beg to differ. He uses thinly veiled racism as reasons why whites get upset when a super hero changes color. He uses feminism the same way. Could it be that some of us just don't buy into the agenda that the powers that be are pushing? Trying to push diversity down our throats by changing a white super hero to a black one is the wrong way to go about this. Taking a beloved movie that didn't need to be remade and changing the all male cast to a female cast just for the sake of diversity is again, the wrong way to go about it. You want to make a new black super hero? Go for it. Make him interesting and I will be a fan. Do you not think there would be an outcry if they made a new Blade movie and Blade was a white guy? Sure there would be.

I deleted my comment because this thread has had its day and I'm over it. But to reply to you, I reckon that if you read his post again you might take from it what I see as Darthkush's main point: that some people, both black and white, prefer to see cinema heroes that look like them.

I personally think that any 'agenda' being indulged in by Hollywood is less a function of politics and more a result of a lack of imagination. Switching out ethnicity is an easy, visible way of changing up an idea without actually changing anything up.

 

[hoodonit00]

I deleted my comment because this thread has had its day and I'm over it. But to reply to you, I reckon that if you read his post again you might take from it what I see as Darthkush's main point: that some people, both black and white, prefer to see cinema heroes that look like them.

I personally think that any 'agenda' being indulged in by Hollywood is less a function of politics and more a result of a lack of imagination. Switching out ethnicity is an easy, visible way of changing up an idea without actually changing anything up.

Well I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Maybe this thread should fade into obscurity. I usually think your spot on in your assessment of things but in this case I think you're wrong. Just my opinion though. No hard feelings, cheers.

 

[Shawpaw]

Yeah I don't see any positives coming from furthering this thread. people can just agree to disagree

 

[darthkush]

I deleted my comment because this thread has had its day and I'm over it. But to reply to you, I reckon that if you read his post again you might take from it what I see as Darthkush's main point: that some people, both black and white, prefer to see cinema heroes that look like them.

I personally think that any 'agenda' being indulged in by Hollywood is less a function of politics and more a result of a lack of imagination. Switching out ethnicity is an easy, visible way of changing up an idea without actually changing anything up.

Bingo. I also think that it's messed up for people to ONLY want to see heroes that look ONLY like them and nothing else. That's where I was going with it.

Furthermore the next thing I was going to say is that on the matter and how it's currently being handled in various multimedia, I think there are pluses and minuses. For example, I applaud marvel comics for trying to diversify. On that I agree with it's supporters. But I honestly think it's weak sauce to just have black cap, black iron girl, Asian hulk, etc. as opposed to just making brand new characters. I don't mean sidekicks like War Machine and Falcon(and I mean no disrespect to those characters when I say that) but I mean MAJOR heroes and villains of color. THAT is what will truly make change. Female Thor and Black Cap are nice I suppose to an extent but...it's not real change at all.

I disagree with the idea of closing the thread. Not because I like controversy but...in all honesty, that is the only way our world will change: by talking about these things in a peaceful manner. I am definitely not here to attack anyone. Merely to listen and discuss and hopefully try to understand each other more

 

[Lejuan]

Well I'm not going to beat a dead horse. Maybe this thread should fade into obscurity. I usually think your spot on in your assessment of things but in this case I think you're wrong. Just my opinion though. No hard feelings, cheers.

 

[darthkush]

I beg to differ. He uses thinly veiled racism as reasons why whites get upset when a super hero changes color. He uses feminism the same way. Could it be that some of us just don't buy into the agenda that the powers that be are pushing? Trying to push diversity down our throats by changing a white super hero to a black one is the wrong way to go about this. Taking a beloved movie that didn't need to be remade and changing the all male cast to a female cast just for the sake of diversity is again, the wrong way to go about it. You want to make a new black super hero? Go for it. Make him interesting and I will be a fan. Do you not think there would be an outcry if they made a new Blade movie and Blade was a white guy? Sure there would be.

I don't understand why people always use that argument of what if Blade was a white guy or Black Panther. That's silly because there are barely any minority superheroes. It'd be different if they were the majority...but they're not. There are barely any characters of color, why eliminate one of the few and make things less diverse? In the case of Panther, a major part of his character is he's an African king. That would be like making Collosus of the x-men black. That's ridiculous as him being Russian is a major character trait for him.

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one have no agenda other than peace between everyone the world over. It might sound silly to some but I grew up loving the x-men because I truly do believe in peaceful existence between all people no matter their color, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. whatever. I don't think everyone who preaches peace and tolerance is "up to something" or has an agenda. Also, I'm not necessarily taking the original posters side, merely giving my own opinion.

 

[Shawpaw]

Bingo. I also think that it's messed up for people to ONLY want to see heroes that look ONLY like them and nothing else. That's where I was going with it.

Furthermore the next thing I was going to say is that on the matter and how it's currently being handled in various multimedia, I think there are pluses and minuses. For example, I applaud marvel comics for trying to diversify. On that I agree with it's supporters. But I honestly think it's weak sauce to just have black cap, black iron girl, Asian hulk, etc. as opposed to just making brand new characters. I don't mean sidekicks like War Machine and Falcon(and I mean no disrespect to those characters when I say that) but I mean MAJOR heroes and villains of color. THAT is what will truly make change. Female Thor and Black Cap are nice I suppose to an extent but...it's not real change at all.

I disagree with the idea of closing the thread. Not because I like controversy but...in all honesty, that is the only way our world will change: by talking about these things in a peaceful manner. I am definitely not here to attack anyone. Merely to listen and discuss and hopefully try to understand each other more

I'm all for open discussion and understandings. My whole point, though, was that most of us here aren't racist nor are we against diversity in comics. There's some who don't like whitewashing characters or changing preexisting characters to address diversity. I get both sides. But I really think change needs to happen outside this board. Most here are accepting and really like different cultures (as evidenced by the amount of Asian culture collectors, luke cage hype lately, etc.). There's quite a few of Hispanic members here too. I think there's more diversity here than people think.

My problem is when posters assume most here are against diversity. I consider myself a social justice advocate for people of color and LGBTQ populations so I get annoyed when I'm lumped into the camp of not caring.

 

[darthkush]

So to sum up your post for the TLDR crowd. White male=bad. Thanks for pushing one more fault on us. As if the weight isn't crushing enough.

I don't think anyone is saying that. If they are, they're being stupid. White male obviously doesn't equal bad as like all people there are good and bad in every race and culture.

If the thread ends up closed, so be it but I think the only way our world will get along better is to discuss it and I think, as far as people go, some of the most intelligent and open minded people in the world are collectors. Many of us are outsiders in some way and we often have more intellectual points of view because of it.

 

[crows]

I don't understand why people always use that argument of what if Blade was a white guy or Black Panther. That's silly because there are barely any minority superheroes. It'd be different if they were the majority...but they're not. There are barely any characters of color, why eliminate one of the few and make things less diverse? In the case of Panther, a major part of his character is he's an African king. That would be like making Collosus of the x-men black. That's ridiculous as him being Russian is a major character trait for him.

I don't know about anyone else, but I for one have no agenda other than peace between everyone the world over. It might sound silly to some but I grew up loving the x-men because I truly do believe in peaceful existence between all people no matter their color, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. whatever. I don't think everyone who preaches peace and tolerance is "up to something" or has an agenda. Also, I'm not necessarily taking the original posters side, merely giving my own opinion.

how do you feel about middle eastern or african american actors given roles that were hispanic characters or were meant to be hispanic? does that bother you? when they replace one minority with another? when they just keep casting actors from the same minority group but they ignore the rest?
does it bother you as much as white washing?

 

[darthkush]

I'm all for open discussion and understandings. My whole point, though, was that most of us here aren't racist nor are we against diversity in comics. There's some who don't like whitewashing characters or changing preexisting characters to address diversity. I get both sides. But I really think change needs to happen outside this board. Most here are accepting and really like different cultures (as evidenced by the amount of Asian culture collectors, luke cage hype lately, etc.). There's quite a few of Hispanic members here too. I think there's more diversity here than people think.

My problem is when posters assume most here are against diversity. I consider myself a social justice advocate for people of color and LGBTQ populations so I get annoyed when I'm lumped into the camp of not caring.

I think perhaps Ali was frusturated with some of the posts that he saw and he lashed out a bit more harshly than perhaps was his intention.

 

[darthkush]

how do you feel about middle eastern or african american actors given roles that were hispanic characters or were meant to be hispanic? does that bother you? when they replace one minority with another? when they just keep casting actors from the same minority group but they ignore the rest?
does it bother you as much as white washing?

I would take some issue with it. If the character is fundamentally Hispanic, i.e. a character like maybe Zorro(as I'm drawing a blank on characters off the top of my head. Forgive me. Examples would be great), then yes, he shouldn't be suddenly black. I do think other minorities are getting ignored. I feel Asians are getting screwed over more than anybody to be honest. And to be fair to those who think minorities are getting a lot more roles lately, they are...in television. I feel tv is starting to even out for all people. It's film where I think it's more of an issue.

Someone mentioned way earlier in the thread how films play in other countries makes a big difference. It does. In other countries, they rarely even receive films with predominantly black casts because they don't usually make as much money there. My wife is a Filipino. The only time they used to get movies in her country with an black person in the lead was when Will Smith was headlining something. It is not anything that necessarily is a big deal, it it simply a fact of life there and as their country features very few people who are NOT Filipino, why try to change it. America is different though. Minorities should be more catered to here because our country is more of a melting pot. For example, how can anyone honestly get angry about Spanish language being pushed more in our schools when so many people here are of latino decent? It's nonsensical. Of COURSE it should be more of a factor here since we have many people who speak Spanish.

 

[crows]

lol I appreciate the reply, Ali never really gave his opinion on minority washing another minority lol