The current state of DC 1/6 collectibles . . . DEAD

[Sardo Numspa]

I think it was mentioned in a previous post, but I don't believe that it is the case that if Hot Toys has the license, no one else can have one.

More importantly, having the license to produce products from a property does NOT mean the company can make whatever they want. The owners of the license will tell the company what they can, or cannot produce. And they also have final say.

My guess is that other 1/6 producers looked into getting the license, and did not like the options/restrictions they were going to be held to.

Warner Bros has done a TERRIBLE job with DC. The Exec Producers involved in the films clearly have no understanding of the properties, characters, or what has made those characters so popular for so many decades. And yes, I'm including the Nolan films in my comments. I enjoy them (except TDKR) for what they are, but they get so little of those characters right. And regardless of the critical acclaim of Joker, the movie has nothing to do with that comic character.

If they (in my opinion) do such a bad job with the movies, it would not surprise me if they do a bad job handling the licensing. Expecting companies to ONLY product certain characters, or certain versions of characters, or ask for to high a % of profits... who knows?

 

[GaryPool]

I think it was mentioned in a previous post, but I don't believe that it is the case that if Hot Toys has the license, no one else can have one.

More importantly, having the license to produce products from a property does NOT mean the company can make whatever they want. The owners of the license will tell the company what they can, or cannot produce. And they also have final say.

My guess is that other 1/6 producers looked into getting the license, and did not like the options/restrictions they were going to be held to.

Warner Bros has done a TERRIBLE job with DC. The Exec Producers involved in the films clearly have no understanding of the properties, characters, or what has made those characters so popular for so many decades. And yes, I'm including the Nolan films in my comments. I enjoy them (except TDKR) for what they are, but they get so little of those characters right. And regardless of the critical acclaim of Joker, the movie has nothing to do with that comic character.

If they (in my opinion) do such a bad job with the movies, it would not surprise me if they do a bad job handling the licensing. Expecting companies to ONLY product certain characters, or certain versions of characters, or ask for to high a % of profits... who knows?

I thought as much.

I know even actors let alone film studios get final licensing approvals for likeness etc. Same licensing in the premium steel book world, unless uniquely given, gives the same art work to be used to all companies making them which is why you see the same art repeated. Even in toys/statues, let's take Joker for example, you get the same staircase base that look identical form each company.

I always thought it a weird myth that people claim Hot Toys need to give up a license to let others have it, always been absurd to me. It's more likely that other companies won't produce a similar 1/6 licensed product themselves because they know Hot Toys will blow them out of the water and their sales would pale in comparison.

I think with most people now Hot Toys popularity and artistic integrity has reached the epitome and now everyone wants a piece of them. Give me what I want or else! Give me what I want or stop paying for that license so someone else can! Release this character! Stop releasing those characters and make one for me!

If I were Howard Chan I'd be starting work each day with a coffee in hand and laughing at all of the Facebook and Instagram rage outs because A, it shows an utmost admiration of your work, but B, it's hilarious that a consumer has any say in what you should make or how you should do it. Always hated that in the gmaming industry, hating it now in the film industry, and now apparently it's happening with toys?

 

[ZE_501]

Entitlement and a sense of ownership is typical of first world consumers, regardless of the industry.

For myself it?s certainly not rage, more a mixture of resignation and disappointment.

The vitriol that is deserved, IMO ? comes from their weird ghosting on certain characters that were shown, teased or even promised, their penchant for making ?orphan? figures without their counterparts...

...sure, they can do what they want, but even a hint of communication or transparency would go a long way to silencing nerd rage.

They remain opaque, so the nerds remain angry. It?s the way of one sixth.


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[hbhf]

There's no reason to believe this strategy isn't being applied to third party merchandisers like Hot Toys, either

There absolutely is, and it's called Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. Like the person you responded to just said, why toy companies in general are more focused on making Marvel toys than DC ones isn't rocket science, as much as that seems to upset some people.

Sure, it could be some sort of grand conspiracy to box out DC...but the common sense explanation that there are more Marvel movie toys than DC ones because the Marvel movies are significantly and measurably more popular is much more likely.

Again, sorry that seems to make people upset, but if you wanna be angry at someone, be angry at WB for allowing the DC brand to be devalued in this way.

 

[Saintv1]

That?s about the size of it. DC has a movie universe nobody cares about, a game franchise five years past it?s last release, and a library of older films that will have a fixed level of nostalgia interest that isn?t going to significantly change?and which certainly doesn?t match the current demand for Marvel product?which will eventually fade, meaning HT needs to strike while the Marvel iron is still hot.

There is no mystery as to why there?s no urgency for HT to release DC figures. Don?t get me wrong, I think it sucks that HT is plumbing for garbage like ?Venomized Groot? instead of making a line of alternate costume Arkham Batman figures or whatever, but the facts are the facts.

 

[Captain Clown]

I think it was mentioned in a previous post, but I don't believe that it is the case that if Hot Toys has the license, no one else can have one.

Not true. That's the point of exclusive licenses. Why do you think we're suddenly getting a bunch of figures from the Dark Knight Trilogy and CW DC shows in weird scales like 1/8 and 1/12 but not 1/6? Because Hot Toys nabs these licenses and sits on them. Judging from their past they seem to absolutely hate competition - they were at the top of their game when going up against Enterbay's Terminator and Robocop figures.

Other companies like NECA have produced Catwoman and Penguin from Batman Returns, and there have been some figures and statues of Romero Joker, so I doubt they aren't allowed to make them. Other companies have completed the DCEU Justice League too - it's just that Hot Toys didn't care to release Cyborg so they cancelled him.

 

[GaryPool]

Entitlement and a sense of ownership is typical of first world consumers, regardless of the industry.

For myself it?s certainly not rage, more a mixture of resignation and disappointment.

The vitriol that is deserved, IMO ? comes from their weird ghosting on certain characters that were shown, teased or even promised, their penchant for making ?orphan? figures without their counterparts...

...sure, they can do what they want, but even a hint of communication or transparency would go a long way to silencing nerd rage.

They remain opaque, so the nerds remain angry. It?s the way of one sixth.


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I think there's a confusion of being owed an explanation and just wanting one. Where have Hot Toys ever promised to release a sidekick toy just because they did the primary counterpart of a duo? Where have Hot Toys ever said that they'll release a prototype? They've displayed prototypes that never released, sure, but that does not equate to them promising fans that they'll be made, nor does it mean that because people liked the prototype that they're now obliged to make and release.

The expo events are as much for licensors and advertisers as they are for fans. We're owed nothing apart from what we pay for. People need to stop conflating their disappointments and wants with studios and companies explicitly having to cater to their whims in trade off for their support.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[a-dev]

When a company does what ZE described Hot Toys as doing it's going to piss people off. Inevitably. This Vulcan-like sheer objectivity that you seem to be advocating - I don't really see that as being the required purview of the consumer - only insofar as to reduce the impact of disappointment on an individual level - but that doesn't mean we should cease expressing what we're disappointed by or what we want to see. If there's no passion in a hobby what's the point - and how would a company have any idea what new endeavors to take on - beyond blind shots in the dark.

 

[ZE_501]

[...] People need to stop conflating their disappointments and wants with studios and companies explicitly having to cater to their whims in trade off for their support.

But that's just my opinion.

Well, that?s a fine line.

Businesses exist and profit by catering to customers in trade off for their support.

That doesn?t mean customers get to make business decisions. I worked in higher end hospitality for years, trust me, I know all about the customer who thinks they own you and want to re-write the menu.

However, just a modicum of respect and transparency goes a very long way. I said ?no? to some big clients, but I said it politely with a brief explanation as to why; that?s how you deal with people when you want their money.

On the other hand, a subset of collectors will buy anything HT produces and beg for more even if Howard comes to their house pees in their breakfast cereal, so maybe it?s just an abusive relationship.

Only half joking.

I don?t buy the ?Hot Toys is culturally distinct with a language barrier? apology that some people trot out. They?ve been international for a while, it?s 2020.

So I agree we don?t get to dictate what the kitchen makes, but don?t put pictures of food on the menu that will never be available without any explanation.

I don?t think that?s so unreasonable. And showing prototypes is one thing, but actually saying in interviews that such and such is ?coming soon? is not an ambiguous statement; I believe that?s happened on more than one occasion, someone can correct me if I?m imagining that.


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[ZE_501]

[...]If there's no passion in a hobby what's the point - and how would a company have any idea what new endeavors to take on - beyond blind shots in the dark.

Very true, particularly a hobby driven by fandom. They?re not making ballpoint pens and paper clips.


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[Saintv1]

Let?s be real... the reason Cyborg never happened isn?t because HT ?didn?t care.? Businesses don?t make decisions based on whether or not they ?care? about something. They make decisions based on what?s profitable.

Cyborg was probably seen as requiring a ton of special Iron Man-level engineering that was only ever going to be used for one figure (not re-painted, re-used, and re-issued like an Iron Man piece), and that would realize very few sales (basically, only the people completing their and a handful of diehard Cyborg fans would buy it).

That sounds like a financial loser to me. The juice probably wasn?t worth the squeeze.

 

[GaryPool]

Well, that?s a fine line.

Businesses exist and profit by catering to customers in trade off for their support.

That doesn?t mean customers get to make business decisions. I worked in higher end hospitality for years, trust me, I know all about the customer who thinks they own you and want to re-write the menu.

However, just a modicum of respect and transparency goes a very long way. I said ?no? to some big clients, but I said it politely with a brief explanation as to why; that?s how you deal with people when you want their money.

On the other hand, a subset of collectors will buy anything HT produces and beg for more even if Howard comes to their house pees in their breakfast cereal, so maybe it?s just an abusive relationship.

Only half joking.

I don?t buy the ?Hot Toys is culturally distinct with a language barrier? apology that some people trot out. They?ve been international for a while, it?s 2020.

So I agree we don?t get to dictate what the kitchen makes, but don?t put pictures of food on the menu that will never be available without any explanation.

I don?t think that?s so unreasonable. And showing prototypes is one thing, but actually saying in interviews that such and such is ?coming soon? is not an ambiguous statement; I believe that?s happened on more than one occasion, someone can correct me if I?m imagining that.


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I get it. You show a donkey a carrot, it gets happy and walks to it, you take it away, donkey is upset. I'm not an emotionally devoid teapot as it turns out. I of course get my hopes up too and disappointment when something is shown doesn't get made or; just a no show for something expected to be made. Sure, I can express that disappointment, ultimately it rarely achieves anything in the long run.

I absolutely applaud companies who have full contact with their customers, Asmus for example, Queen studios. Hot Toys have never been that company, never pretended to be. They've also never worked in a process of customer asking company making. Therefore for me at least it's a better lived life to not throw anger or disappointment at Hot Toys nor to instill being upset or annoyed within yourself. I mean I don't know to which degree some people do this, but it's clear to see on Facebook quite a number of people do.

We're also forgetting in regards to the prototypes made that they're there to test the waters. Think in terms for the "leaked" Deadpool clip. If it bombed amongst viewers the film wouldn't have been made, fortunately it did really well and the film was greenlit almost instantly. I view their few prototypes that they have shown but currently not made as exactly the same. And going furthermore with Cyborg, they clearly dedicated resources into making a complicated piece with the intention of releasing it, but the film bombed and no one cares about Cyborg so why make it? They barely even made a new Superman.

I'm not wholly ragging on people complaining, I'm just saying have some objective insight into how things work and a modicum of emotional restraint. On the flip side, if you find enjoyment in voicing your displeasure have at it, but I'll then have the pleasure at voicing my opinion of the pointlessness of it all, all it serves to do is put anguish and frustrations in your own life.

@a-dev, sure it will piss people off, but as I said it's only pissing them off because the assumption is on their behalf of expecting prototype meaning a definite shot of being made, same to be said as releasing main characters and the assumption that sidekick must be made, and then secondary character, and then tertiary character because of that, and then the Wamp rats, and then a Gonk droid, and then that wolfman in the Cantina who was on screen for 2 seconds.

And to go even further, you only need to look at the new JND studio, who are currently wrapping up Arthur Fleck and teasing WW for their next release. People are already complaining at them for not making other film characters. Why? Because they're loving the detail and professionalism and realism being displayed, but it's not the character they want therefore they're displeased. Really? Really?? I don't know, maybe it's me, I just don't get it. Not at that level. I understand more the prototype thing but still...

 

[Alatar]

I know I?m late to the party but presumably we should be getting figures for

WW84 (Cheetah? Steve Trevor?)
The Suicide Squad
The Batman
Zack Snyder?s Justice League
Aquaman 2
The Flash
Black Adam
Shazam: The Fury of the Gods
Green Lantern Corp

Now granted, Covid has added/will add delays. But I wouldn?t call that dead. In suspended animation maybe. But not dead.

 

[Saintv1]

I know I?m late to the party but presumably we should be getting figures for

WW84 (Cheetah? Steve Trevor?)
The Suicide Squad
The Batman
Zack Snyder?s Justice League
Aquaman 2
The Flash
Black Adam
Shazam: The Fury of the Gods
Green Lantern Corp

Now granted, Covid has added/will add delays. But I wouldn?t call that dead. In suspended animation maybe. But not dead.

WW84: you?re probably only going to get WW herself, just like the last movie. MAYBE Cheetah, but I doubt it.

Suicide Squad: Harley and any Batman-related character is all we?ll get, just like the last movie and BOP.

The Batman: they?ll surely build a decent line for this one.

Justice League: Hard to say, depends on whether WB actually wants to merchandise this.

Aquaman 2: Aquaman only, just like the last movie.

The Flash: Too early to say, but hopefully we?ll get something here because of the characters involved.

Shazam 2: Probably nothing, just like they last movie.

Black Adam: Too early to say, but if we get anything it?ll probably just be Black Adam himself.

Green Lantern Corp: Too early to say.

I think the bottom line is that even a highly successful and popular movie (like Wonder Woman) isn?t guaranteed a decent figure line, because HT only seems to be producing DC figures that are guaranteed sellers, and not taking chances on new characters and certainly not villains.

 

[ZE_501]

I know I?m late to the party but presumably we should be getting figures for [...]

WW84 -- Wonder Woman only. Regular and gold armour.

The Suicide Squad -- Harley only.

The Batman -- Batman only.

Zack Snyder?s Justice League -- Nothing except maybe Black Suit Superman, using same BvS sculpt.

Aquaman 2 -- Aquaman only.

The Flash -- The Flash only.

Black Adam -- Nope.

Shazam: The Fury of the Gods -- Nope.

Green Lantern Corp -- Nope.

Based on past performance.

 

[hbhf]

Given how heavily they merchandised the past Batman movies it's highly likely they'll do more than just Batman for The Batman.

 

[ZE_501]

Given how heavily they merchandised the past Batman movies it's highly likely they'll do more than just Batman for The Batman.

I have my doubts but hope that you're right. Actually I hope it's a good film, then we can worry about the toys.

 

[sj2106]

Those movies and figures are years away though.

There is still no excuse for not doing more Burton related figures. Neca have just done a second run on Batman 89, Catwoman and Penguin from Returns.

The Tweeter head and Sideshow Pfeiffer Catwoman statues go for silly money on eBay so please don't tell me those figures wouldn't sell.

Reeve Superman they barely scratched the surface.

 

[ZE_501]

Meh. I give up.


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[ironwez20]

Those movies and figures are years away though.

There is still no excuse for not doing more Burton related figures. Neca have just done a second run on Batman 89, Catwoman and Penguin from Returns.

The Tweeter head and Sideshow Pfeiffer Catwoman statues go for silly money on eBay so please don't tell me those figures wouldn't sell.

Reeve Superman they barely scratched the surface.

Pretty much all high end burton Batman merch sells for crazy money even the neca. The 1/4th bats went for damn near 500