Alien and Aliens is all all need from the franchise
The Alien Franchise Discussion
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First records owned.....
Jaws soundtrack
Star Wars soundtrack
Grease soundtrack
Indiana Jones soundtrack
Ac/DC: Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Goofy Gold: compilation of movie TV show themes
Captain Fantastic
We did not have a lot , those records were priceless to me.
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First records owned.....
Jaws soundtrack
Star Wars soundtrack
Grease soundtrack
Indiana Jones soundtrack
Ac/DC: Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap
Goofy Gold: compilation of movie TV show themes
Captain Fantastic
We did not have a lot , those records were priceless to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Out of your list we had Star Wars (would look at the photos on the sleeve for hours it seemed), and Grease ... also Close Encounters of the Third Kind ...
You would say that but you would be wrong.
Actually I would say Stagecoach is the film that started the "team" trope in movies. It was The Magnificent 7 though that was the big film that most point to as really starting "assemble the team" movies of which Dirty Dozen was just another variant that seemed to stick because it had a great story structure. You could even look at Star Wars as having an element of "collecting the team" and same with Jaws on the boat (a smaller team).
Yep, those were among my favorites.
But of course.
I came out of the Disaster era where John Williams did Poseidon Adventure, Earthquake and Towering Inferno and he was already my favorite composer... so when he did Jaws he became a god. It got to the point that whenever a film had his name on it I knew it would be good (at least until The Fury came out). I vividly remember before I saw this strange movie called Star Wars that I learned Williams had done the score and that excited me more than anything else in the marketing.
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I remember catching portions of '74's Towering Inferno when older family members were watching a televised version (I assume it was edited for TV) that scared me as a little kid.
Strangely, a cursory internet search doesn't turn up when it was first aired on TV. I want to say somewhere around 1978-79 as I would have still been quite young.
Oh, I'm pretty sure it came to cable (Showtime) in early 1977 because it was the reason I pestered my mom to get cable for its premiere. Amazing to think how much I loved that corny TV-style movie back in the day. But then I liked Logan's Run too.
Star Wars fixed all that for me.
Star Wars fixed all that for me.
It definitely did. Its one of the reasons why it is considered so influential, not just popular.
I think the Rambo trope was short-lived and more about a "macho-masculine hero against the odds" type popularized in the 80's -- it was a character type. Die Hard was broader because it was situational, not necessarily based on a specific character type. You could have an average Joe everyman in a Die Hard situation, and even add a "team" element and "buddy-buddy" element as they did for The Rock.
Yes there were so many "Die Hard on a [fill in the blank]" movies in the 90's, lol.
With regard to ALIEN and ALIENS I can see why many would prefer the original, especially if you saw it in the theater in 1979 and were a fan for 7 long years prior to the sequel. But ALIENS is really only surpassed by SW/ESB and FOTR for me. Truly an all-time favorite. The frenetic style and grainy cinematography really compliment the premise and tone perfectly IMO. One of the most thrilling, "badass" and yet simultaneously terrifying films ever made IMO. The intensity of the combat even outdoes Platoon (which followed in theaters a couple months later) in some areas.
The experience of watching that first teaser trailer in the theater before Top Gun is seared into my brain to this day:
Those two minutes still rank as some of the biggest "holy ****" moments in cinema for me.
With regard to ALIEN and ALIENS I can see why many would prefer the original, especially if you saw it in the theater in 1979 and were a fan for 7 long years prior to the sequel. But ALIENS is really only surpassed by SW/ESB and FOTR for me. Truly an all-time favorite. The frenetic style and grainy cinematography really compliment the premise and tone perfectly IMO. One of the most thrilling, "badass" and yet simultaneously terrifying films ever made IMO. The intensity of the combat even outdoes Platoon (which followed in theaters a couple months later) in some areas.
The experience of watching that first teaser trailer in the theater before Top Gun is seared into my brain to this day:
Those two minutes still rank as some of the biggest "holy ****" moments in cinema for me.
The other thing to remember about Aliens is that, for Cameron, it was as much about bringing Ripley back as anything else. So, again, that (probably) necessitated the military element in order to make it plausible that she would put herself in that situation again. And it worked out too because Sigourney got an oscar nomination for it - and that was based on the theatrical cut presumably. The special edition gave her even more gravitas.
Weaver nailed it again in Alien 3, despite the troubled production of that film and despite that she wanted out at that point - hence Ripley's demise.
Weaver nailed it again in Alien 3, despite the troubled production of that film and despite that she wanted out at that point - hence Ripley's demise.
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abake
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I think it was really cool that they went back to the planet in Aliens, and I agree that the military element was a way of making it plausible that Ripley would even consider going back, but... (and this is just for fun, I like the movie fine as it is)
Let's take a look at alternatives.
I like the idea of having lots of aliens in order to raise the stakes, so I'll go with that. But going back to LV-426 is only one option to do that. You could have the alien leaving an egg or two inside the Narcissus, unbeknownst to Ripley. After all, she had no reason to expect it to do so and wouldn't look for it before going into hypersleep. As audience, we didn't know how the eggs came about, or who laid them, so it would be fair game to say the alien left it there. Next thing you know, Ripley is rescued by some salvage team to take her to a colony or to a Space Station.
Alternately, they could have gone back to the original idea and have the remains of cocooned Dallas (almost unrecognisable as human by now) and a fully formed egg (Kane). Ripley isn't taken out of stasis for whatever reason (maybe she spent too much time out there, maybe the cryochamber malfunctioned), so the scientists at the base (or the colony) start to experiment and mayhem ensues. When Ripley finally wakes up, it's chaos and she has to deal with it again, but with the help of the surviving military and colonists, so we get all the fun lots of aliens and lots of guns. I kinda like the idea of Ripley waking up completely disoriented in an unfamiliar place and surrounded by carnage, like Rick Grimes
And some things that bug me to this day about Aliens (just for the lolz):
- Why wasn't a bigger deal made out of special order 937? Ripley read the damn thing, she knows the Company put Ash there to get the alien, and she tells the suits as much, yet nothing happens. Why was that simply glossed over? It should've been a much bigger deal, it was a bit too convenient IMHO. I mean, these guys basically said: we don't care if you die... And the company forgot all about it? They never sent another ship? They were willing to risk gazillions of dollars and the lives of 6 people in order to get the "life organism" back, and now everyone's forgotten about it so Burke can devise his own little plan?
And let's not forget that the company so completely forgot about losing an entire ship with 20 million tons of mineral ore in a mission so important that they were willing to risk ship, cargo and crew, that they colonise exactly the same planet? That's just too many inconsistencies IMHO.
Which brings me to...
- You're going to tell me that when you send people to colonise a planet, you don't survey the damn planet? We're talking about a future where FTL and cryosleep are the norm, where you can travel across the frigging galaxy and they don't survey a damn planet before colonising it? Because the only way they didn't find the derelict in that tiny planetoid is if they never even surveyed it... which I find a bit silly.
Let's take a look at alternatives.
I like the idea of having lots of aliens in order to raise the stakes, so I'll go with that. But going back to LV-426 is only one option to do that. You could have the alien leaving an egg or two inside the Narcissus, unbeknownst to Ripley. After all, she had no reason to expect it to do so and wouldn't look for it before going into hypersleep. As audience, we didn't know how the eggs came about, or who laid them, so it would be fair game to say the alien left it there. Next thing you know, Ripley is rescued by some salvage team to take her to a colony or to a Space Station.
Alternately, they could have gone back to the original idea and have the remains of cocooned Dallas (almost unrecognisable as human by now) and a fully formed egg (Kane). Ripley isn't taken out of stasis for whatever reason (maybe she spent too much time out there, maybe the cryochamber malfunctioned), so the scientists at the base (or the colony) start to experiment and mayhem ensues. When Ripley finally wakes up, it's chaos and she has to deal with it again, but with the help of the surviving military and colonists, so we get all the fun lots of aliens and lots of guns. I kinda like the idea of Ripley waking up completely disoriented in an unfamiliar place and surrounded by carnage, like Rick Grimes
And some things that bug me to this day about Aliens (just for the lolz):
- Why wasn't a bigger deal made out of special order 937? Ripley read the damn thing, she knows the Company put Ash there to get the alien, and she tells the suits as much, yet nothing happens. Why was that simply glossed over? It should've been a much bigger deal, it was a bit too convenient IMHO. I mean, these guys basically said: we don't care if you die... And the company forgot all about it? They never sent another ship? They were willing to risk gazillions of dollars and the lives of 6 people in order to get the "life organism" back, and now everyone's forgotten about it so Burke can devise his own little plan?
And let's not forget that the company so completely forgot about losing an entire ship with 20 million tons of mineral ore in a mission so important that they were willing to risk ship, cargo and crew, that they colonise exactly the same planet? That's just too many inconsistencies IMHO.
Which brings me to...
- You're going to tell me that when you send people to colonise a planet, you don't survey the damn planet? We're talking about a future where FTL and cryosleep are the norm, where you can travel across the frigging galaxy and they don't survey a damn planet before colonising it? Because the only way they didn't find the derelict in that tiny planetoid is if they never even surveyed it... which I find a bit silly.
Well there goes my attempt to steer the thread away from Aliens criticism
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
It's all in good fun!
I really like Aliens a lot, as I said, IMHO it's a masterpiece of the genre. Don't focus on the negatives
I really like Aliens a lot, as I said, IMHO it's a masterpiece of the genre. Don't focus on the negatives
One thing I was confused about in A L I E N... was the Nostromo set up or not?
Meaning, did they stumble on that signal and just happened to have a company robot with secret orders onboard... or was this a new trade route deliberately directed by "the company" so they would be forced to investigate the mystery signal (hence planting Ash onboard on short notice)?
If "the company" knew about the signal, why would they send a bunch of grunts to check it out?
I believe there's an answer, I just forget.
Meaning, did they stumble on that signal and just happened to have a company robot with secret orders onboard... or was this a new trade route deliberately directed by "the company" so they would be forced to investigate the mystery signal (hence planting Ash onboard on short notice)?
If "the company" knew about the signal, why would they send a bunch of grunts to check it out?
I believe there's an answer, I just forget.
I think it was really cool that they went back to the planet in Aliens, and I agree that the military element was a way of making it plausible that Ripley would even consider going back, but... (and this is just for fun, I like the movie fine as it is)
Let's take a look at alternatives.
I like the idea of having lots of aliens in order to raise the stakes, so I'll go with that. But going back to LV-426 is only one option to do that. You could have the alien leaving an egg or two inside the Narcissus, unbeknownst to Ripley. After all, she had no reason to expect it to do so and wouldn't look for it before going into hypersleep. As audience, we didn't know how the eggs came about, or who laid them, so it would be fair game to say the alien left it there. Next thing you know, Ripley is rescued by some salvage team to take her to a colony or to a Space Station.
Alternately, they could have gone back to the original idea and have the remains of cocooned Dallas (almost unrecognisable as human by now) and a fully formed egg (Kane). Ripley isn't taken out of stasis for whatever reason (maybe she spent too much time out there, maybe the cryochamber malfunctioned), so the scientists at the base (or the colony) start to experiment and mayhem ensues. When Ripley finally wakes up, it's chaos and she has to deal with it again, but with the help of the surviving military and colonists, so we get all the fun lots of aliens and lots of guns. I kinda like the idea of Ripley waking up completely disoriented in an unfamiliar place and surrounded by carnage, like Rick Grimes
And some things that bug me to this day about Aliens (just for the lolz):
- Why wasn't a bigger deal made out of special order 937? Ripley read the damn thing, she knows the Company put Ash there to get the alien, and she tells the suits as much, yet nothing happens. Why was that simply glossed over? It should've been a much bigger deal, it was a bit too convenient IMHO. I mean, these guys basically said: we don't care if you die... And the company forgot all about it? They never sent another ship? They were willing to risk gazillions of dollars and the lives of 6 people in order to get the "life organism" back, and now everyone's forgotten about it so Burke can devise his own little plan?
And let's not forget that the company so completely forgot about losing an entire ship with 20 million tons of mineral ore in a mission so important that they were willing to risk ship, cargo and crew, that they colonise exactly the same planet? That's just too many inconsistencies IMHO.
Which brings me to...
- You're going to tell me that when you send people to colonise a planet, you don't survey the damn planet? We're talking about a future where FTL and cryosleep are the norm, where you can travel across the frigging galaxy and they don't survey a damn planet before colonising it? Because the only way they didn't find the derelict in that tiny planetoid is if they never even surveyed it... which I find a bit silly.
I think the company sent the colonist there knowing they would stumble upon the eggs eventually........
They sent them to die and become more weapons.
Plausible deniability.
My perfect Alien sequel would have been the dark horse comics route.
Years later a religious cult brings an alien to earth, they worship it as a God offering themselves to the eggs as transformation of spirit into an alien.
Hicks totally messed up from LV426, encounters a now grown Newt, have to convince Ripley to join the fight.....
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abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
I remember having that discussion years ago, probably in another forum that was dedicated to the Alien franchise... I think it was actually a games forum for the AvP games. I can't remember what conclusion we came to though
My take nowadays is that yes, the Nostromo was set up. The company knew something was out there. Maybe some other ship had picked up the beacon but they couldn't place it accurately from the files, but they knew the general area, that's why they replaced Dallas' Science Officer with Ash, because they knew the Nostromo's route would take it close to where the signal was picked up before. As for why sent a bunch of hobos, well, they didn't send out a bunch of hobos. They sent Ash to make sure everything went smoothly. Besides, they had no reason to suspect it could get so dangerous or messy. All they knew was "alien signal", so "bring back specimen", and if it comes to that "crew expendable".
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
Yeah well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that...
I have the comics (well, I just kept one of the original Dark Horse "sequels", which later was named Outbreak, if I'm not mistaken), and while they're interesting, I really don't quite understand the love people have for them. The art is crap (my apologies to the artist), you can barely tell who is who and the aliens look awful. The story is way too far fetched and convoluted, and as it progresses, it just gets worse. Nightmare Asylum and Female War are even sillier than Alien Resurrection, and that's saying a lot...
Does seem a little odd that there is no probe that could be sent to check out the signal. And how exactly the company came across this signal in the first place.
So you are going with -- company learns of a signal, finds out what shipping route is nearby, finds out what tanker is passing by next, quickly plants its own robot aboard in hopes that the robot can control the situation should anything go wrong... even though you can knock the robot's head off with a fire-extinguisher? OK.
Again, wealthy company should have more probes available. How about sending a team of Ashes or Bishops to the signal?
Yes Cameron played fast and loose with some of the lead-in continuity, particularly with regard to how the events of the first film were referenced. Obviously Kane never said that he "saw thousands of eggs there" but it was decent enough shorthand to get those unfamiliar with the original up to speed.
In my head canon there were probably some internal Company politics at play immediately after the events of the first film that prevented them from exploring LV-426 further. Heads probably rolled after the Nostromo fiasco, maybe some higher ups lost their jobs, "had accidents," etc., and those that succeeded them had pet projects on other planets that they diverted resources to or what have you.
Maybe executives above Burke's pay grade *did* have the planet surveyed and were simply playing the long game until the colonists stumbled upon the derelict themselves (so as to never leave a tell-tale paper trail like the one that Ripley discovered on Burke.) Or maybe like the Xenomorphs "not showing up on infrared" the entire Derelict ship was made out of some material that didn't show on survey scopes. It is "alien" in origin after all.
In my head canon there were probably some internal Company politics at play immediately after the events of the first film that prevented them from exploring LV-426 further. Heads probably rolled after the Nostromo fiasco, maybe some higher ups lost their jobs, "had accidents," etc., and those that succeeded them had pet projects on other planets that they diverted resources to or what have you.
Maybe executives above Burke's pay grade *did* have the planet surveyed and were simply playing the long game until the colonists stumbled upon the derelict themselves (so as to never leave a tell-tale paper trail like the one that Ripley discovered on Burke.) Or maybe like the Xenomorphs "not showing up on infrared" the entire Derelict ship was made out of some material that didn't show on survey scopes. It is "alien" in origin after all.
abake
Rex Tremendae Majestatis
Yup, that's exactly what I'm going with.
As for Ash's vulnerability to being hit by fire extinguishers and cattle prods, well, he wasn't exactly a combat model, was he? He was clearly designed to blend in as a regular, unassuming bloke (in Prometheus David even states that the whole idea is to make humans feel comfortable around them). Again, I doubt the Company was foreseeing any trouble, and there's no indication that androids/robots were made to withstand excessive physical trauma in the Alien universe. Irrelevant to the logic or writing of the first movie, but in all the following movies, androids do break when hit hard enough.
Why not send a team of Ashes? Well, maybe there's not that many hanging around. Maybe they didn't have a ship ready to go out in short notice. Maybe they were afraid that someone else would pick up the signal, so they took the fastest option. They obviously felt they had to react quickly, as Ash was only signed onboard on very short notice.
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It's a credit to the first 2 films that these are questions I never really asked, not in years.
Although humanity is clearly very advanced during the events of the first film, I imagine the company would be working with what they had as long distance space travel is no longer uncommon but still very inconvenient and involves long timelines.
The probe thing is valid, but boots on the ground beat the hell out of a zoom lens and soil samples.
Although humanity is clearly very advanced during the events of the first film, I imagine the company would be working with what they had as long distance space travel is no longer uncommon but still very inconvenient and involves long timelines.
The probe thing is valid, but boots on the ground beat the hell out of a zoom lens and soil samples.
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