The Alien Franchise Discussion

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abake

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So Alien is one of my all-time favourite movies -not just as a geek, but because I genuinely think it's a masterpiece of cinema-, so I decided to start a thread about the franchise and just throw out random thoughts on the movie and the franchise...

I think the enduring appeal of Alien goes beyond H.R. Giger's amazing designs for the titular creature and the Space Jockey, and it also goes beyond Weaver's now iconic role of Ripley. What kept me going back over and over to the movie (and still does) long after the scares are gone and the creature had become familiar, is how everything in it comes together perfectly.

A lot of people (and not a few critics) criticised the story and characters for being flimsy, dismissing it as a "haunted house in space" and just a bunch of nice visuals with little story or depth. I find that amazingly short-sighted. The characters are amazingly well fleshed out, with simple dialogues and actions giving an amazing depth of character to each. Just look at the scene where Parker wipes off the chair after telling Ash to get off "his" chair. That alone tells you much more about the dynamics of the crew and Parker himself than half an hour of backstory. And every character has those little moments in the movie that make them believable (and likeable) without having to resort to lengthy exposure or long-winded dialogue. There is no long, slow, dramatic build up to Ripley's "I'll go" and then Dallas' "No, I'll go" to try to emphasise their heroism, it just happens and flows naturally. Just like Brett's "enough of this kitty crap"; it's just something a person naturally would say and it's presented that way, without trying to magnify it or spoon-feed it to the audience.

The overall story, which was (and still is to a certain extent) derided as simple to the point of inexistent, has a lot of subtext that makes it rich and compelling. The bad "company" that exploits its workers for its own dastardly designs is the most obvious one, as is the feminist angle of the hero being a woman and the 60's-70's free love ideal (Parker's comments to Lambert about what he'd rather be eating), but there's also the social and class divide within the ship, with the lower level, blue collar "citizens" getting paid less and spending more time in the lower decks where the rest of the white collar "citizens" don't go. Not to mention the male rape/violent pregnancy theme and overall sexual imagery of Giger's designs.

Which brings me to another point: none of that, none of the subtext was there in O'Bannon's script. Not Ash the robot, not the soulless company, not the feminine hero (yeah yeah, O'Bannon wrote that all characters were unisex -that doesn't mean crap-), not the two-tiered class system in the ship. Nothing. Nada. As a matter of fact, the script is pretty crappy. So thank god for Giler and Hill, and Scott... not to mention all the ad-libbing by the cast.

So yeah, I think what makes Alien so fascinating is that it transcends the "haunted house in space" and, coupled with an amazing production design and amazing direction, lets us be a part of the Nostromo crew, with all their inner dilemmas, as they face the most terrifying creature we could possibly imagine.

If y'all want to share your thoughts on this and the rest of the franchise, let's all have a go at it.

When I fell inspired I'll share my thoughts on why I think that Aliens also is a masterpiece.
 
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Alien was a masterpiece horror movie that holds up better than any other movie released in 1979
Alien 2 a masterpiece action movie
Alien 3 a masterpiece (yeah I said it) horror/action/just damn dark movie (the assembly cut that is)
Alien resurrection , is a semi comedy/action category where it kinda starts to faulter, but I kinda respect it because they took it in a different direction which is braver then what they’re doin these days in movies

Prometheus.....I use to like it but connecting it to alien is just dumb. Would’ve been a decent sci fi movie on its own. Too many dumb decisions made in this one.
Alien covenant. Let me jus say, it sucks. They tried to appeal to us “alien” fans, but they ruined it all. Terrible movie with terrible story.
To tell you the truth, why didn’t they jus leave where the aliens came from jus an enigma? Because the explanation that been given so far doesn’t make sense and it cheapens the whole thing. I had such high hopes and Prometheus kinda gave me some hope. But it ran off the rails with covenant. Jus my two cents if anybody gives a ****
 
Spelling mistake undoes entire post.









Just kidding. I agree. Alien is in many ways under-appreciated and simplified.

I also believe its subtlety is light-years ahead of Cameron's hammer-to-the-head Aliens.

********* I hate auto-correct...

I agree in that Alien's subtlety is way above anything Cameron has ever done, but I honestly think Aliens has its own very valid ideas and themes. The subtexts are not so much subtexts but more like bold, all caps statements, but they work a lot better than in most of Cameron's movies.

Alas, I'm not yet inspired to write about Aliens. :lol
 
Alien was a masterpiece horror movie that holds up better than any other movie released in 1979
Alien 2 a masterpiece action movie
Alien 3 a masterpiece (yeah I said it) horror/action/just damn dark movie (the assembly cut that is)
Alien resurrection , is a semi comedy/action category where it kinda starts to faulter, but I kinda respect it because they took it in a different direction which is braver then what they’re doin these days in movies

Prometheus.....I use to like it but connecting it to alien is just dumb. Would’ve been a decent sci fi movie on its own. Too many dumb decisions made in this one.
Alien covenant. Let me jus say, it sucks. They tried to appeal to us “alien” fans, but they ruined it all. Terrible movie with terrible story.
To tell you the truth, why didn’t they jus leave where the aliens came from jus an enigma? Because the explanation that been given so far doesn’t make sense and it cheapens the whole thing. I had such high hopes and Prometheus kinda gave me some hope. But it ran off the rails with covenant. Jus my two cents if anybody gives a ****

Regarding Prometheus and Covenant, it is kinda odd that Prometheus' undoing was that somewhere along the line it strayed from being a direct prequel to Alien, while Covenant's undoing was that it tried to steer back into being a direct Prequel to Alien... having said that, what I find interesting and compelling about Prometheus is exactly what distanced it from being a direct prequel (all the musings on creation and the responsibility of the creator), and inversely what doesn't work so well in Covenant for me is all the stuff thrown in to make it an "Alien" movie.
The "shower scene" in Covenant plumbs depths only reached by AvP-R before it...
 
Alien was basically Jaws in space, but it also did so much more with less. Like Jaws, it was all about the suspense. The less you saw of the horrible killer creature, the more suspense it created and made for a better film. Plus the whole movie had a cast of seven people. Then six, five, four, you see where this is going, two...... :D
Aliens was the next level approach. "What if there was more than just one?" "How many more?" "A whole crap-ton!" "DO IT!" The result was awesome action suspense.
Alien 3 was supposed to be the end. The hero defeating the company. A good endning.
Alien:Resurrection while fun and interesting, was a cash grab and not really necessary.
 
Spelling mistake undoes entire post.









Just kidding. I agree. Alien is in many ways under-appreciated and simplified.

I also believe its subtlety is light-years ahead of Cameron's hammer-to-the-head Aliens.

The thread didn't even go two posts without someone taking a jab at Aliens. *********. :lol

OK Ironwez, this is how you feel when we slag off ROTS. I understand now.


Anyway I have nothing to say at this time but I'll be happy to use this thread from now on for any musings I may have or tidbits of news I might come across on youtube. I like that Alien Theory guy. Sounds a bit like Sam Harris.
 
Something about Alien doesn't sit well with me. Maybe there's a racist undertone to it or something, or maybe it's the setting and pace of the film. The film is still objectively good tho.
 
The thread didn't even go two posts without someone taking a jab at Aliens. *********. :lol

OK Ironwez, this is how you feel when we slag off ROTS. I understand now.


Anyway I have nothing to say at this time but I'll be happy to use this thread from now on for any musings I may have or tidbits of news I might come across on youtube. I like that Alien Theory guy. Sounds a bit like Sam Harris.

Lol ..... it?s hard sometimes
 
Yeah, how so? Please don't say you're in the same camp as that mad professor who said the Alien and Predator franchises were racist...
 
I like the Alien movies in the order they were released. The original is such a great horror in space movie. The cast was great and Ash being a Android made the movie even creepier because they crew then had 2 threats since he was trying to get it back to Earth. I love the set designs, the Alien design and the Nostromo was a unique ship design too. I like Aliens also but it is more action oriented. It's Terminator and Terminator 2 as far as tonal shift. Original Alien poster is also classic.
 
I have to admit I like Aliens better than Alien by a smidge.

Why?

Aliens
Simple. The cast. Paxton, Hendrickson, Biehn, Reiser, Goldstein, Matthews.....of course Weaver as well.....

It?s almost perfect cast, which every single character is explored and adored in a very short amount of time. You want them all to survive. Not to mention it was one of the first films to follow the ?double stacked? ending.....just when you think it was over, the roller coasters started again. It?s cliche now but before that film it was rarely executed as well. Special effects were so incredible at the time, and still hold up to today.

Alien: essentially a horror monster movie , which was popular at the time, just taken to the next level, with excellent actors, sets and massive drawn out tension. In the end it?s mostly a jump out and get each crew member film, starring a great cast, although they are given limited extra story to explore. Aliens did a better job expanding the world, and giving more background to each arc that moved the film beyond the jump out and get you trope. Granted, they had more strength with the studio to do that. What Alien had was extra thought into the space monster story......not to mention incredible tension.

Alien 3: I cannot express my profound disappointment in this film. I walked out of the theater HATING it. The cop out of killing all the other actors just to save cash was infuriating. While it had some great acting , the effects were terrible in every way. They idea of a dog alien is fantastic, but the effects are just unwatchable. They billed it as this huge new Computer technology effects , doing things regular effects could never do....:what a bunch of crap. Then tack on a VERY predictable ending that once again was only done so Weaver could escape the franchise.....just such a typical studio decision led film all the way around....

I don?t really talk about any of the other Alien world films. Because they were all terrible after that.


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I read a long time ago that Alien manifested the white man's fear of and discomfort with the BIG BLACK MAN. That may be so, but in the end, those are your own prejudices and misconceptions that you project into the movie, not necessarily what the movie is telling you.

Again, the monster is black for a number of reasons:
- Giger's art usually depicts black/dark grey figures, and the direct inspiration for the alien is no exception
- Most of the interior of the ship is dark (the alien never shows up in well lit areas like the infirmary or the dining area), so it stands to reason that the monster has to be dark to blend in
- Machinery and insects (both of which have an echo in the creature's appearance) are usually darkly coloured

So how the **** would the monster be anything other than dark/black?
 
I read a long time ago that Alien manifested the white man's fear of and discomfort with the BIG BLACK MAN. That may be so, but in the end, those are your own prejudices and misconceptions that you project into the movie, not necessarily what the movie is telling you.[...]

Yeah, I don't buy that for a second. Another case of Semiotics Gone Wild. :cuckoo:
 
I am a Huge fan of ALIEN. Its my 5th fav horror film of all time.

For me it comes down to three things. Ridley Scott, HR Giger, and Ron Cobb

I like the story. I like the actors. But its all about the mood and Designs. I just love looking at this movie. The whole film is like looking at a painting. Its possibly the best looking film of all time.. For me anyways :)

Scott knew how to film this stuff. The movement of the camera. Lingering on things that helped bring the world to life. Ron Cobb's (Who is unfairly overshadowed by Giger) work is just stunning and helps make the world believable.

There is nothing more to be said about Giger but without him the film would not have worked the way it does.


ALIENS - I love Aliens also but its nowhere near the masterpiece as ALIEN IMO. But its was a brilliant idea to take make a sequel to a horror film a balls to the wall Action / Thriller.

ALIEN 3 - Time has been kind to this film. Its far from perfect but it looks beautiful and the Dog Alien is bad ass. The violence in this film is boarder line beautiful at times with the way Fincher shot it.

ALIEN Resurrection - I hate it.

Prometheus - I actually really like this film.. But I really don't view it as Canon.. I refuse. If I did it would ruin ALIEN. The Space Jockey would be ruined.. The idea of the alien would be ruined. But I like the film enough to not dismiss it.. So it is fan fiction :)

Covenant - I enjoy parts of this. I love the character of David. I want to see the end of his story. Again this is all fan fiction. Maybe this all takes place in the AVP Universe. That way there would he some good films for that series :lol


I have posted this before but the Alien Franchise is a series I watch with very different time lines in mind.

ALIEN - ALIENS - Done

ALIEN - ALIENS - ALIEN 3 - DONE


ALIEN - ALIENS - ALIEN 3 - Resurrection - TBC - It is a rarity I follow this timeline.

Prometheus - Covenant - TBC
 
ALIENS - a brilliant idea to take make a sequel to a horror film a balls to the wall Action / Thriller.


I agree, despite the fact that the very common dialogue and the comedic blue-collar aspect cheapens the world to me.

These two films are great examples of art versus popcorn.
 
For Ripley to have any involvement in a follow-up to Alien I believe Cameron did exactly the right thing, the thing that made the most sense - guns. Marines. There's no way she would have gone back otherwise. And if you're gonna introduce those elements then of course you have to have multiple Aliens because guns tend to kill things pretty easily. Enter the complaint about how the film turned the Alien into a disposable bug. Enter my retort that the Alien Queen now assumed the mantle previously held by ''Kane's son'' as the invincible and malevolent beast. Less stealthy due to her size but she sure had character. The warriors meanwhile still managed to decimate the troops so they weren't exactly ineffectual themselves.

As regards what's been said about the first film, absolutely agreed with all.

I love Alien, Aliens and Alien 3 Assembly Cut.
 
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