Marvel's Antman and the Wasp: Quantumania

[ZE_501]

Part of the failures for Phase 4 is that Marvel and Feige would never make Iron Man 1 in current times. It's just a very good movie. However it showed the death of US servicemen, criticized the military industrial complex and large scale defense contractors, had a sex scene (somewhat), Stark when on an unchecked "revenge tour" post Yinsen, and there were antagonists that lined up in the vein of traditional IRL "terrorism"

I remember even in 2008 watching his revenge tour and thinking "they went there" and also thinking it was exhilarating watching those bad guys go down. I didn't find it problematic because it was a question of geopolitics, the bad guys were fictional, and the hero that saved Tony in the cave (twice) was South Asian/Middle Eastern (it was never clear given he spoke so many languages).

By End Game, that all had to go. It had to be fantasy enemies and no bullets. The first Captain America, Steve Rogers had a pistol. He actually shot a bad guy and used a firearm in Avengers during the carrier battle. But that wouldn't happen today.

Fair enough.

I suspect that Wakandan battle had similar restrictions. Don't make it "too real" for people. Hence Ross and the world's formal military are nowhere to be seen during these major battles.

Takes me out of it every time.

There was a time when Will Smith was the hottest thing in Hollywood ( just right after Men In Black 1 and ID4 ) And there were lots of articles about the failures of Wild Wild West, effectively an autopsy of why it failed. Kevin Smith covered a little bit of it in the first An Evening With Kevin Smith series. You go down a check list and then you stop having a coherent story. You need to include backdoor pilot characters, inclusion, diversity, avoid offending China, set up the next installment/sequel, have X number of battle set pieces, when that's all over, how can you make a movie like that? You have to add in 20 must have things to further the "universe" and the "activism" and what's left?

I wrote a script for a short film project years ago that my producer girlfriend of the time immediately rejected as too 'hot' -- i.e. the satire was way too edgy. We shelved it permanently. I think the last time I could have made a film like without fear of major online backlash was around the time Fight Club came out. I may still re-visit it some day, if only to re-work the script as an exercise. I don't actually know if the humour would have landed because we never even workshopped it.

I'd argue that the forced inclusivity within Wakanda Forever, Shang Chi and Eternals actually does more to promote more latent racism with the subtext of these titles than actually appeal to a world wide audience.

I can see that happening because ... well people notice when they're being force fed.

But don't try to pretend to give a paper thin actor like Mark Ruffalo some kind of ill fitting pathos. It's pretending product is storytelling. If you don't care about storytelling, then just don't pretend like you actually do. And make films that line up with that reality.

I think he's done well in other projects (Foxcatcher comes to mind) and wasn't bad in The Avengers. What they did to his character turned him into a whiny, put-upon sidekick.

Fr fr, current Hulk deadass ain't it cuz on g no cap.

Fr cheugy Hulk got me pressed.

 

[Victοr]

I theorize that Kang's other "forms" will appear in the other movies (Rama-Tut, Immortus, Scarlet Centurion, etc.) after this movie instead of Regular look, but only a theory.

That's the current rumor. Word has it that's precisely the 1st Post-Credits scene of Quantumania. I still want to see more actors play the role, but I don't think I'll get that. I at least hope the Secret Wars/Beyonder rumors aren't true. They're really pushing Doom-Lite and robbing Doom blind and I don't like it...

Fr cheugy Hulk got me pressed.

No cap.

 

[abake]

Only thing I have to say is that Michelle Pfeiffer is a wonder. How old is that woman and how come she looks so gorgeous?

 

[KitbashOfficer]

Only thing I have to say is that Michelle Pfeiffer is a wonder. How old is that woman and how come she looks so gorgeous?

She is looking good. Liz Hurley always has been and still is my number 1.

 

[Garlador]

https://www.cbr.com/ant-man-quantumania-no-funny-goofy-villains-kang/
Anyway, I’m still on the MCU train. The only Phase 4 projects I actively disliked were Eternals and Love & Thunder. Ant-Man has continued to be a fun character and series for me to follow and I’m expecting I’ll be pretty entertained.

 

[Dave_W]

'No, let's put Ant-Man up against the most dangerous villain in the Multiverse, and let's do the opposite of what you saw in Loki. Let's make this the worst of the worst, and there's a reason he's here.'

Isn't that...that's exactly what the Loki (Clown Kang is it?) Kang said would happen, that's the entire point of Loki S1, so how is this some new idea?

 

[Garlador]

'No, let's put Ant-Man up against the most dangerous villain in the Multiverse, and let's do the opposite of what you saw in Loki. Let's make this the worst of the worst, and there's a reason he's here.'

Isn't that...that's exactly what the Loki (Clown Kang is it?) Kang said would happen, that's the entire point of Loki S1, so how is this some new idea?

It’s just paying off what they set up, but even I’m surprised they’re using Ant-Man as the catapult for it and not a more serious or grounded hero.

 

[Victοr]

You know what? I take it back. No more chances from me. This is worse acting than a Junior High Drama Club. I've seen kids manage to hit the notes better. Kristen Dunst in IWTV runs circles around him. This is the guy we'll waste 3 Phases and God knows how many years on with how they're pushing back everything. This is the guy stealing Doom's stories and thunder. Hell, this is the guy who is stealing everything! Incursions? Klawng! Secret Wars? Klawng! The Beyonder? Yeah you guessed it, Klawng again! The Goddamn Darkhold and the Elder Gods? Klawng once more! Yeah, great. Just great... I'm putting a Bale head on mine, I don't care if I have to waste another 100+ euros, I'm not looking at this schmuck's face; it'll piss me off and I'll go throw it in the trash one day. And I'm not going to stop there, I'll buy all the rest of the Kangs, and replace the heads too. Maybe then my Chaos Magick will work... It's pissing me off. The guy can't even get his lines right. He's messing up basic accentuation. His mannerisms, flinches and intonations are straight out of a YouTube vid from the 10s. I've seen more consistent acting in SNL. Manletmor struggling to get his English out was Daniel-Day Lewis compared to this guy. The average extra has more screen presence. This is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. And the worst thing is, the shills and tasteless plebs that compromise the "fandom" will spend years and years praising him because that'll be the "narrative". This is offensive to my aesthetical sensibilities...

 

[loki2371]

He's a terrible actor....

No charisma whatsoever... No regality. No presence. So wrong for the role of Kang.

I don't think I've actually seen anything he is in, but from clips/trailers of movies I have seen he seems to be the same in everything. Bland and boring.

 

[Victοr]

He's a terrible actor....

No charisma whatsoever... No regality. No presence. So wrong for the role of Kang.

I don't think I've actually seen anything he is in, but from clips/trailers of movies I have seen he seems to be the same in everything. Bland and boring.

I gave him chances. I watched "The Last Black Man In San Francisco", the more arsty pic to get a feel of him, "Da 5 Bloods", and recently "Devotion"; plus also remembered that he was in "Hostiles" (his first role apparently). He's honestly pretty bad and tries to mimic Denzel Washington's mannerisms, but obviously can't pull them off. The "play" scene at the end of TLBMISF was bordering on parody. Having watched him in a couple of interviews, he's a jovial guy so ultimately he can only play himself. I can buy him as the good guy. But as the supergenius conqueror? No chance. He can't do it. You could put Tony Revolori in armour and he'd do better. I dislike the changes done to Namor as well, but Huerta had charisma and some acting chops. Where he'll go from here I don't know, but I bought his character. Majors is absolutely dreadful in every single clip. He can't properly emote to save his life, he can't harmonise his intonations with his mannerisms, and is generally an embrassment. He was awful as the recluse "cuhraaaaazzyyyyy" Immortus, and he's awful here. I don't know why they're pushing him everywhere, I don't know why they're devoting 3 Phases to him, I don't know why they're sacrificing Doom to do it, but it's dreadful and I hate it.

 

[Kebron]

I gave him chances. I watched "The Last Black Man In San Francisco", the more arsty pic to get a feel of him, "Da 5 Bloods", and recently "Devotion"; plus also remembered that he was in "Hostiles" (his first role apparently). He's honestly pretty bad and tries to mimic Denzel Washington's mannerisms, but obviously can't pull them off. The "play" scene at the end of TLBMISF was bordering on parody. Having watched him in a couple of interviews, he's a jovial guy so ultimately he can only play himself. I can buy him as the good guy. But as the supergenius conqueror? No chance. He can't do it. You could put Tony Revolori in armour and he'd do better. I dislike the changes done to Namor as well, but Huerta had charisma and some acting chops. Where he'll go from here I don't know, but I bought his character. Majors is absolutely dreadful in every single clip. He can't properly emote to save his life, he can't harmonise his intonations with his mannerisms, and is generally an embrassment. He was awful as the recluse "cuhraaaaazzyyyyy" Immortus, and he's awful here. I don't know why they're pushing him everywhere, I don't know why they're devoting 3 Phases to him, I don't know why they're sacrificing Doom to do it, but it's dreadful and I hate it.

Did you see Lovecraft Country?

 

[choombaz]

I didn’t realise Corey Stoll does the voice of MODOK in this

Did you see Lovecraft Country?

That was terrific. I was disappointed it got canceled.

 

[The Buffinator]

Huh, that'd actually work. Get some gold vambraces, an Aquaman trident, and you've made it. The problem is that Weaving isn't handsome enough for Hot Namor, but he's got the ears and makes for a fine Classic/Older Namor. I'll keep it in mind, but I'll wait a bit to see what they'll do with him in the costume department MCU wise. Any way you cut it I'll be in the game until they make the last Doom dolly, so I can wait. Maybe they'll give him a shave and put him on roids. There is some decent concept art that didn't make it into the movie:

He looks better with longer hair and without the beard. A shave, lose the earrings and nosering, give him a suit, put him on a training regiment, and I'll (probably) not need to go looking for replacements.

-

To bring it back to the thread's topic, I seriously don't understand how the suit is making a dude as big as Majors (he's not that tall, barely 6", but he's wide) look like a twig with a pumpkin head.

He looks fine (I still dislike the plasticky costume, but you get the point) here:

But as soon as the helmet comes up, he looks like a Funko Pop:

I hope the HT has better proportions, because I've noticed it in every shot of him with the (CGI) helmet on.

Yes, if you check out set photos from Creed III you'll see that he got himself seriously jacked, and given the two movies release within a couple of weeks of each other it's unlikely he looked significantly different for Quantumania. But that said I'm not really seeing where the suit is making him look like a twig....unless maybe it's in the full blown CGI scenes?

With respect to Namor, I think we'd all be best served if HT ignored Huerta's actual build and gave us an idealized version of his body. Keep all the Mayan adornments (necklace, ear & nose rings, etc.) but just pretend he was 100% CGI from the neck down lol.

 

[Kebron]

I didn’t realise Corey Stoll does the voice of MODOK in this


That was terrific. I was disappointed it got canceled.

I agree and I thought he acted well in it. I haven't seen his other work though, and the character in Lovecraft Country is the polar opposite of Kang.

 

[choombaz]

I agree and I thought he acted well in it. I haven't seen his other work though, and the character in Lovecraft Country is the polar opposite of Kang.

The only other thing I’ve seen him in is Da 5 Bloods and he’s very good in that as well but everyone kinda fades into the background in that, including Chadwick Boseman, because Delroy Lindo is so amazing in it.

 

[Victοr]

Did you see Lovecraft Country?

No, and I never will. I'm pretty open to most genres and concepts, but some things I won't spend time on. I think he plays a good guy there, so he should be fine.

Yes, if you check out set photos from Creed III you'll see that he got himself seriously jacked, and given the two movies release within a couple of weeks of each other it's unlikely he looked significantly different for Quantumania. But that said I'm not really seeing where the suit is making him look like a twig....unless maybe it's in the full blown CGI scenes?

View attachment 621809

He worked out, I'll give him that, but he's on a bit of the Marvel Juice too.

And the problem with the suit is that instead of going with a tunic, they went with that pseudo-armour made out of pleather. So it's very heavy around his upper chest and neck, however it retracts to go into "battle mode". The CGI helmet then with the top heavy chest armour makes him look very weird proportionately. He looks fine when he's not wearing the helmet and the suit is "relaxed" but when it's in battle mode it looks off. The HT figure should fix the proportion problem.

With respect to Namor, I think we'd all be best served if HT ignored Huerta's actual build and gave us an idealized version of his body. Keep all the Mayan adornments (necklace, ear & nose rings, etc.) but just pretend he was 100% CGI from the neck down lol.

View attachment 621810

They were never going to not "hero-ify" him. Everyone gets more muscles in toy-land. Aside from the earrings and nosering, I like the rest of the getup. The incorporation of pearls into the other actual cultural aesthetics works well. We'll see it when we see it I suppose. It could turn out to be a show-stealing figure, if done right. I'm still on the fence about it though, I'd rather wait for a take on his modern suit and a longer haircut. Maybe when I see the figure in its "idealised" state I'll change my mind.

 

[The Buffinator]

They were never going to not "hero-ify" him. Everyone gets more muscles in toy-land. Aside from the earrings and nosering, I like the rest of the getup. The incorporation of pearls into the other actual cultural aesthetics works well. We'll see it when we see it I suppose. It could turn out to be a show-stealing figure, if done right. I'm still on the fence about it though, I'd rather wait for a take on his modern suit and a longer haircut. Maybe when I see the figure in its "idealised" state I'll change my mind.

Hopefully you’re right but I’m not as sure about that. HT likes to espouse that they put accuracy & realism first and foremost, often sacrificing features like articulation in the process. If they hold to that philosophy we’ll be stuck with dad bod Namor, and if they do an idealized version they’ll get criticized for changing him. Unless….they just skip a WF release and do a Concept Art version instead.

 

[Victοr]

Hopefully you’re right but I’m not as sure about that. HT likes to espouse that they put accuracy & realism first and foremost, often sacrificing features like articulation in the process. If they hold to that philosophy we’ll be stuck with dad bod Namor, and if they do an idealized version they’ll get criticized for changing him. Unless….they just skip a WF release and do a Concept Art version instead.

I can't see them sitting there and sculpting the "love handles". The realism is just how lifelike the paint and everything is. I think he'll be more "bulky" than ripped. I can't see them giving him massive veiny arms or anything of that sort, but he'll be tighter and fitter. As long as he doesn't look like this:

Done right though, it could be a really neat and stand-out figure. The cape, the jewelry, the crown, the spear; you could put him in quite a few good poses. Aside from my dislike of the changes made to his lore, the aesthetics and general look are interesting. The pearls, the serpent motif, it's all cool. I mostly dislike the face area. The haircut's weird, the earrings distract two much, I've always hated noserings, the goatee is too non-Namor; those take me out of it. If he had the same costume, plus a better body, and the look he had in Narcos, he'd have looked much better.

As for his chances, I don't know. He seems to be liked on the internet. He's had a lot of fanart the last few months, which is a win for a new character. Then again HT generally doesn't make villains. But they've only made a single WF figure, and could possibly want a second companion doll out to boost sales of Shuri, maybe. The truth is that they're far behind the schedule as well, and this is a packed year. They've got the SW Anniversaries too.

Me personally I'm torn on even getting one because I don't know where to put him. His MCU status and departure from the comic look make him unfit for my plans. Comic Namor was in the Illuminati because he had ties to everyone there, was the resident hothead, and Atlantis was a mythical land. MCU Namor is 400 YO, has no ties with anyone, and I doubt they'll do the FF/Doom stuff either. I can see him being strictly a BP and maybe X-Men character. So, if I get one, where does he go? He obviously can't pass for an Atlantean and I base all my displays around the comic groups. I don't know, I'll think it over I guess.

Oh, yeah, this is the Ant-Man & Wasp Vs. Klawng: Dawn Of Ham thread. Gotta love these reactions:

I-It'll get better 15 h-hours in, t-trust me...

Man, talk about wasted Phases. The more rumors I hear, the less I'm interested. And the line-ups were already underwhelming for my tastes. Phase 7 better be cool, but they'll probably butcher the X-Men too. I'm too tired to even be optimistic for the FF and Doctor Strange...

 

[Garlador]

Early reactions are pouring in as fairly mixed. Too much content, too little time to breathe. But everyone seems onboard with Kang.

We’ll see. Again, I always thought Majors casting as Kang was solid.

 

[Victοr]

Early reactions are pouring in as fairly mixed. Too much content, too little time to breathe. But everyone seems onboard with Kang.

We’ll see. Again, I always thought Majors casting as Kang was solid.