Hot Toys -The Batman 1/6 batmobile

[Rondesmo]

Even if HT and Joost seem to take the same route, I think there are two completely different options.
Joost is a replica vehicle (car) maker with high level accuracy.

HT is a figure maker. They release (sometime at a loss) vehicles only to increase figures sells and allow to their customers to recreate a very cool display.

HT vehicles aren’t completely perfects and accurate but they capture the mood and the essence of the movie for a cheaper price.
They are a sort of « super accessory » for the figure.

Joost tends to give a high end replica.

they are different options and when you incorporate this shade it is easier to decide where you will throw your budget for a 1/6 vehicle.

 

[medicomsucks]

That's very true about selling at a loss. They've been through that once with the 1989 batmobile, but it's my understanding that it wasn't by design.

It's a very strange time, but there are a couple of things that may level the playing field for Jazzinc a bit.

First off, HT has to fend off Inart/Queen Studio who is making an aggressive attack on their core business, -action figures. What I find interesting on that front isn't so much that they've already declared that they're making the batmobile (which is significant), but they're putting their best foot forward with the Ledger Joker and following up with The Batman figure. They're actually inviting a "who made it better" comparison. And if it is deemed that Inart did, in fact, do it better, HT may be in real trouble, depending on the price point.

IMO, the Ledger Joker is the figure that put HT on the map and is also their most criticized. For whatever reason, the Ledger Joker is super iconic in the 1/6 world and HT has been widely criticized for both their lack of improvement with a v3 product, and also the lack of figure availability. I believe that, if available worldwide, the Inart version is going to be a very hot seller that will affect HT greatly. I don't' expect they will deliver in the numbers that HT does when they release a product, but the PR and brand awareness pendulum will definitely swing their way, and that is something that I think will bother HT a great deal and embolden Inart further. HT seems to thrive on creating product excitement, which tends to build momentum, taking them into their next offering with a bit of a tailwind. I don't see HT ignoring that particular threat.

Secondly, with the success of the batman movie, I think it's fair to assume that demand for this batmobile will be significant, which when selling at a per unit loss, is a great equalizer. If you couple that with the fact that there will certainly be no advanced electronics with this (e.g. sound cards, custom boards, etc), it will most likely be a lackluster offering. Plus, there's going to be that estimated market cost "fudge factor" that HT is going to have to try and figure out in order to quantify exactly how much money they are willing to lose on this. That's got to be of significant concern to them because it's a moving target and they can anticipate a high demand. They seem to already understand this because they've already crossed the $300 price point with the base Batman figure.

If HT is going to sell at a loss to try and drive out Jazzinc, I believe they are really in a precarious position. They have to balance how much they are willing to lose, versus how willing they are to take the flack for possibly making a delivery that falls short of expectations. They have a lot of licensors watching, and I'm sure they'll all take notice of any subpar delivery.

HT has a lot to defend, but admittedly, they also have a lot of resources. It is interesting that Inart has taken the position of basically declaring war on HT, seemingly without concern. It's sort of like when Columbus landed in America and burned his ships. I find that very inspirational and it's hard not to cheer for them.

I would love to see Jazzinc be the first to market with this, especially since there is already a prototype, but I also completely understand that doing so is not without risk. Regardless, I'm a buyer for the Jazzinc version whenever it's available

View attachment 566617

I think the first Ledger figure was a disaster actually. I think you mean the DX1? The bank robber Ledger came before that DX 1 and had the better head. The moment when hot toys made a big jump was actually the predator Dutch figure in my opinion.

 

[BigWayne]

I think the first Ledger figure was a disaster actually. I think you mean the DX1? The bank robber Ledger came before that DX 1 and had the better head. The moment when hot toys made a big jump was actually the predator Dutch figure in my opinion.

You may be right.

I was actually thinking that the first joker (mms68) sold a bunch because the only joker competitor at the time was the dc direct version. Granted, both the mms68 and the dc direct versions are terrible by today’s standards, but I actually had the dc version and picked up the mms68 as a replacement because it was so much better. Pretty sad, right?

I guess the point I was trying to make is that, IMO, the joker “phenomenon” (if you will) was key in helping HT to the top of the hill (at least pre-ironman). It seems like whenever they wanted to print more money, they just put another joker out there, so a competitor offering a mass produced licensed version is probably going to get their attention.

 

[medicomsucks]

I think there was a medicom joker around that time as well but yes the likeness was pretty bad on those.

 

[Gipetto0812]

Medicom's version was only good for the shoes and socks DC Direct's had the best initial likeness under the horrible paint and bad hair sculpt. It was based on an actual head scan of Ledger if I remember correctly. It actually looks really good with a repaint and rooted hair. Maybe not so much by today's standards but it was really good at the time for custom fodder.

 

[jsgord58]

Yes, I rang. Pardon me fellow collectors but may I say that I personally would prefer a Munsters mobile from the 60's show in 1/6 scale. Humbly, I say sorry for the intrusion.

 

[histrionics]

Even if HT and Joost seem to take the same route, I think there are two completely different options.
Joost is a replica vehicle (car) maker with high level accuracy.

Yes, I rang. Pardon me fellow collectors but may I say that I personally would prefer a Munsters mobile from the 60's show in 1/6 scale. Humbly, I say sorry for the intrusion.
View attachment 566831

Even if HT and Joost seem to take the same route, I think there are two completely different options.
Joost is a replica vehicle (car) maker with high level accuracy.

HT is a figure maker. They release (sometime at a loss) vehicles only to increase figures sells and allow to their customers to recreate a very cool display.

HT vehicles aren’t completely perfects and accurate but they capture the mood and the essence of the movie for a cheaper price.
They are a sort of « super accessory » for the figure.

Joost tends to give a high end replica.

they are different options and when you incorporate this shade it is easier to decide where you will throw your budget for a 1/6 vehicle.

While this is true, HT has often "learned" from other makers and borrowed heavily in improving their products. HT also has the advantage of always being able to make products at a lower price point, based simply on the numbers of units they produce. There's a lot of muscle in HT's approach to making collectibles and it often pushes other companies out of viability and into a different niche of the collectibles market.

About a decade ago HT swiped the entire Bruce Lee license from Enterbay, who at the time was the sole specialist in that celebrity category. Just a few years ago HT did the same to QMX with Pennywise from "It". And, in case we ever forget, HT wasn't the first company making extremely detailed high end figures - it was actually Enterbay who pioneered that (and to some extent Medicom before) just about 16 years ago, but HT learned from their technique and went on to become the biggest producer in that market.

I just feel like HT won't merely leave themselves vulnerable with a low end Batmobile while another company stands to outdo them. They're paying attention, learning and likely figuring out how to make something comparable and cheaper.

I know what you mean, though, and as it stands to date, HT has always made 1:6 vehicles that were mediocre prop toys rather than true replicas. I've often described HT vehicles as glorified model kits that use one grade of thin ABS plastic throughout the entire product, from interior to exterior and on every detail. That's far from accurate in any replica sense. Will HT do that with this Batmobile, or will they up their game?

 

[Gipetto0812]

While this is true, HT has often "learned" from other makers and borrowed heavily in improving their products. HT also has the advantage of always being able to make products at a lower price point, based simply on the numbers of units they produce. There's a lot of muscle in HT's approach to making collectibles and it often pushes other companies out of viability and into a different niche of the collectibles market.

About a decade ago HT swiped the entire Bruce Lee license from Enterbay, who at the time was the sole specialist in that celebrity category. Just a few years ago HT did the same to QMX with Pennywise from "It". And, in case we ever forget, HT wasn't the first company making extremely detailed high end figures - it was actually Enterbay who pioneered that (and to some extent Medicom before) just about 16 years ago, but HT learned from their technique and went on to become the biggest producer in that market.

I just feel like HT won't merely leave themselves vulnerable with a low end Batmobile while another company stands to outdo them. They're paying attention, learning and likely figuring out how to make something comparable and cheaper.

I know what you mean, though, and as it stands to date, HT has always made 1:6 vehicles that were mediocre prop toys rather than true replicas. I've often described HT vehicles as glorified model kits that use one grade of thin ABS plastic throughout the entire product, from interior to exterior and on every detail. That's far from accurate in any replica sense. Will HT do that with this Batmobile, or will they up their game?

I like this post mostly b/c of the history lesson involved. Lots of folks seem to forget, didn't know at all, or are still too green in the hobby to know these things.

 

[jinkazama]

Who thinks this will actually go up for pre order?

 

[Rondesmo]

In the meantime, even if it’s not 100% perfect and for what I paid, 590€, which was a huge amount of money back to 2013, I’m very pleased with my 89 Batmobile which feels very solid, heavy and very well manufactured.
This is maybe why they sell it à a loss…
But as more accurate as they are Joost’s products, don’t know if I could have spent three times the price.
HT always has future in the business IMO…

 

[BigWayne]

I also have that batmobile and it is indeed an awesome beast. Adjusted for inflation, it would cost just under $945 today.

I think the only reason it was sold at a loss was because HT failed to accurately understand their manufacturing costs. Without knowing exactly how much of a loss they were taking, simply adding another 30% to make some type of profit places the cost at $1228 in today’s money.

Still, nothing in this hobby is really inexpensive anymore.

 

[xb24]

Someone mentioned this will go up for preorder when the movie opens in China but we'll see.

 

[Rondesmo]

Still, nothing in this hobby is really inexpensive anymore.

Sometimes I feel lucky to have begun in this hobby 10-15 years ago.
Today it would cost me three times the price to get what I already have…

 

[jinkazama]

Someone mentioned this will go up for preorder when the movie opens in China but we'll see.

When does The Batman open in China?

 

[Batffeck5.0]

When does The Batman open in China?

The 18th I believe. This week

 

[Hoody999]

You make an excellent point. If HT has affected Jazzinc's rollout with a simple threat, then that is significant.

Unfounded or not, there is a concern that perhaps HT perceives Jazzinc as more than a nuisance in their market, so disruption may or may not actually be their intent. As such, there appear to be two questions that need to be reconciled:
1. Is it credible that HT actually intends to deliver the new batmobile? If so, is it credible that HT would do it at a loss to eliminate a company that is effectively a rounding error on their P&L? (no disrespect to Jazzinc), and;
2. What is the longer term vision for Jazzinc? Does Joost want to continue to fly under the radar and build what he is passionate about (e.g. star wars licensing, etc), or does he aspire to bigger and loftier goals for Jazzinc?

We can speculate all day long, but these aren't questions that any of us here can answer. At some point in this journey, Joost had to think how cool it would be to achieve such a prominent level of respect and success in this community and actually be in a position to consider going toe to toe with HT. That's not unlike every kid's dream to be up in the bottom of the 9th down 1 run with 2 outs and the bases loaded with a 3-2 count. It's a commitment one way or the other that defines a milestone.

Selfishly, I agree with you and would also like to see Jazzinc be loud and be proud with a preorder.

What gets me is that Hot Toys clearly stopped making vehicles as they were not selling in the volumes or profits they wanted. I recall the reason being (from an old Budget Stark video at Secret Base) that in Asia people simply don't have the room and Secret Base had vehicles in inventory which simply would not sell.

So Joost steps up and fills that gap for the European and US market.

Now Hot Toys see that as a threat ?? It's just such a strange move from Howards point of view. Any normal businessman would think OK we know vehicles is not our thing, plus the vehicles which Joost makes in theory only increases sales of Hot Toys figures.

Clearly a pure ego move on Howards part. Idiot.

 

[ZE_501]

Clearly a pure ego move on Howards part. Idiot.

Careful, according to the COC you don't want to alienate or offend vendors with a relationship to Collectorfre - oh wait. Hot Toys doesn't have a 'relationship' with anyone besides our credit cards.

 

[Waiden]

What gets me is that Hot Toys clearly stopped making vehicles as they were not selling in the volumes or profits they wanted. I recall the reason being (from an old Budget Stark video at Secret Base) that in Asia people simply don't have the room and Secret Base had vehicles in inventory which simply would not sell.

So Joost steps up and fills that gap for the European and US market.

Now Hot Toys see that as a threat ?? It's just such a strange move from Howards point of view. Any normal businessman would think OK we know vehicles is not our thing, plus the vehicles which Joost makes in theory only increases sales of Hot Toys figures.

Clearly a pure ego move on Howards part. Idiot.

Any smart company prevents competition to take its share of the market. Not sure why you call this ego move from Howard, if anything, this was a smart move. JazzInc and Joost are great and I love what they do, they have a loyal sometimes blind following behind them

 

[BigWayne]

Any smart company prevents competition to take its share of the market. Not sure why you call this ego move from Howard, if anything, this was a smart move. JazzInc and Joost are great but seems they have a blind following behind them.

I'm not sure I would call it a blind following, so much as a loyal following.

In the short term, you may be right. What Howard Chan did appears to have been effective, but a smart move? That remains to be seen. Incremental sales increases are tactical, brand image and consumer perceptions are strategic. There's an old saying about "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

If you treat your customers as if they had half a brain and deserve a modicum of respect, they appreciate it. If you attempt to choke off others in the space, arguably a space you had abandonded, at the expense of your customers, they don't appreciate it. No mystery there. I believe that the animosity towards HT is that their strategy to retain marketshare is executed at the expense of the consumer, not for the benefit of them.

 

[davejames]

I really doubt it's an ego thing, or that HT is going through all this trouble simply to crush Jazzinc. They probably just see that there's a much greater interest now in collecting 1/6 vehicles, and they want to make some money off that.