HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs & Pics

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I'd be willing to forget that any of the 89-90's Batman movies were ever made.

 

[a-dev]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I really liked the Begins suit in the context that it came in (realism) and I really just like '89 and Returns equally because they're so different. I don't care for the '89 symbol

I'd be willing to forget that any of the 89-90's Batman movies were ever made.

Thought you guys should see this, especially the part where the cowl rips when batman turns his head lol.

And bruce wayne has full neck mobility (lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP9fFSc2Rx0

I love the Bat-Turn. It became part of the character for me.

 

[The Chev]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I'd be willing to forget that any of the 89-90's Batman movies were ever made.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I don't care for the '89 symbol

I'm with you - depending on exactly WHICH one we're talking about. I love the movie logo, but I hate the symbol used on the costume - too many little thin/small points - it's just not bold and iconic like the one used for the movie promotion.

I've never really liked Tim Burton as a creative/director, but I was already a big fan of the principal actors in the 89 movie. I can't help but think the nostalgia factor is really pulling people on this one. I was already 17 when that one premiered, and even at the time thought it was a little too silly. And that just went downhill with the second and off a cliff with the 3rd, exploding in a giant ball of crap with the 4th.

Compare… While there's some silliness (ok, more than some) in the original Superman movie, I think it holds up far better than these Batman movies.

 

[Maglor]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

You can write an entire book on why something was created to look out of place, cheesy, silly and toy-like. (Because that bright yellow oval and belt really sold the illusion that it wasn't just a dude in a stupid-looking costume.) But at the end of the day, the why isn't so important - just the result. Besides, the only why that determined what we all saw on screen was Tim Burton and his costume and marketing people.

If you prefer that look, more power to you. I personally think it looks very silly today indeed. And no need to bring up Marvel movies either, most of which are extremely sub-par in many facets, not strictly costuming.

The "why" is based on facts.

You're reasons for thinking it's "silly" are 100% opinion. And it's an opinion that is very much in the minority, and beyond my ability to comprehend.

If you think that this

is more similar to this

than this

then you're clearly in denial.

But it is.

You're just being distracted by the yellow logo.

I'm with you - depending on exactly WHICH one we're talking about. I love the movie logo, but I hate the symbol used on the costume - too many little thin/small points - it's just not bold and iconic like the one used for the movie promotion.

I've never really liked Tim Burton as a creative/director, but I was already a big fan of the principal actors in the 89 movie. I can't help but think the nostalgia factor is really pulling people on this one. I was already 17 when that one premiered, and even at the time thought it was a little too silly. And that just went downhill with the second and off a cliff with the 3rd, exploding in a giant ball of crap with the 4th.

Compare… While there's some silliness (ok, more than some) in the original Superman movie, I think it holds up far better than these Batman movies.

On this one point, I am with you. It's part of the reason I prefer the Returns suit.

 

[The Chev]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

My friend told me that he either read it in a comic or somewhere else that the reason Batman has a big symbol on his chest is that so people will aim at that when they shoot, since it's the heavily protected area, rather than aim at his face.

It makes sense when you think about the 89' suit and how it could stop bullets. Usually Batman fights in the dark, and if you're a person with a gun and you're aiming at him in the dark. You're going to see the big yellow symbol more than anything else and aim for it.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

The "why" is based on facts.

My point was those facts don't matter. It's the end result that's important, and it simply doesn't work today. You can't explain away the faults with reasons for their existence.

You're reasons for thinking it's "silly" are 100% opinion.

Which happens to be based on fact - have you watched the movies? Telling someone that what they write is an opinion, is not only weak, it's aggravating to read. Don't do it, it really makes your argument fall apart and no one will take you seriously. Honestly, it's about as strong as plugging your ears and yelling "nya nya nya I can't hear you"

And it's an opinion that is very much in the minority, and beyond my ability to comprehend.

Then you should watch interviews with Tim Burton and the other people responsible for the movies to set you straight. It's difficult to comprehend that anyone could say that the original movies, including sets and costumes weren't silly, whimsical, comical and devoid of any semblance of realism (in other words, surreal) - that was the whole point behind the creative decisions they made at the time. This flows through every part of the movie, including dialog and plot.

 

[Sidious-66]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

You think the suit abs and bright yellow logo is less 'dorky' than nolan's? The keaton suit would be a ridiculously funny cliché if used in today's movies. I get the appeal of the '89 batman because of it's childhood nostalgia, but really, wat.

I don't think either suit is 'dorky' and the '89 suit would easily work in todays environment.

Of all the Bat suits that have graced the big screen I know which one would scare/intimidate me the most if Batman came charging at me if I were mugging some Gotham citizen and that would be the '89 version.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Except he can't run in the 89 suit. Or turn his head. Or bend over. Or really anything at all that isn't perfectly dance choreographed with every baddy jumping or running directly into Batman's outstretched arm/fist. Tim Burton used the 1966 series as a template - same fight sequence realism, just with less Batman articulation. It works great (back then) if your audience is 6 to 8 years old. Today it might require 4-6 as most 8 year olds will likely also find it ridiculous.

 

[a-dev]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Did he? I could have sworn the dvd extras emphasised that the whole point was to get away from that. It just happens that in the post-Nolan world Burton's Batmans do appear more campy and thus closer to the tv show.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I was being facetious about the 1966 show being a template. It was obviously a big update from what people remembered from the 66 show (original, reruns and syndication), not to mention what many kids grew up on with the various animated incarnations, Superfriends, etc…

But it was just Tim Burton's typical over the top treatment.

How many people liked the D1ck Tracy movie? Does anyone even remember it? Lots of fact to explain "why" it was alike a live action cartoon. It doesn't mean the reasoning was sound or that the result was acceptable - the thing was terrible. Much worse of course than any of the Batman movies.

 

[Sidious-66]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Except he can't run in the 89 suit. Or turn his head. Or bend over. Or really anything at all that isn't perfectly dance choreographed with every baddy jumping or running directly into Batman's outstretched arm/fist. Tim Burton used the 1966 series as a template - same fight sequence realism, just with less Batman articulation. It works great (back then) if your audience is 6 to 8 years old. Today it might require 4-6 as most 8 year olds will likely also find it ridiculous.

He runs in the alley with Vicki Vale. Your age range for people to watch the movie is laughable as at the end of the day it is a movie, nothing more.

I don't care what limitations the suit had back in '89 as it was one hell of design. And if the little brats did not/would not appreciate it in the modern era then they **** off.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Except he can't run in the 89 suit. Or turn his head. Or bend over. Or really anything at all that isn't perfectly dance choreographed. Tim Burton used the 1966 series as a template.

You're trolling now with that '66 comment. Funny, because you're usually always the one to use the troll card.


Can't run? He runs through the streets and alleys of Gotham at a fast pace after the Museum confrontation. Maybe even faster than Bale's sluggish "jog" through Arkham in Begins or any time he runs drunkenly in TDK (like the end for example, granted he was wounded).

The '89 suit bends quite well too. To look up he moves his entire torso and waist. I remember quite a few punches and high kicks. Yeah, he couldn't move his neck too well but that was a problem with all the suits until TDK. That's the only aspect of the TDK suit that trumps the others, but even then, Bale doesn't even use it to his full advantage. Instead we get shots like this,

Where he keeps his head tilted up, mouth open, like he's having trouble keeping his head up and mouth closed because of the tight, bulbous, biker helmet cowl that cuts off his oxygen flow. How often does he turn his head in The Dark Knight and TDKR? Maybe only a handful of times. He still does that sort of "bat turn" that all of the actors used where he moves his entire body to look at another character. Case in point, the party scene where Joker grabs Rachel. What does Batman do? He doesn't turn to look at him, he has to turn his entire body.

Hell, even in the new documentaries we see them testing the suit and the poor guy look like he's in hell trying to take that rubber helmet off since it's so tight on his head.










EDIT:


Sidious beat me to it. Yup.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Like I said, I was already 17 when the first Batman movie came out - arguably already far too old to treat it very seriously - but expecting a more serious treatment from the producers at the time. I still enjoyed the first two however, though nowhere near as much as Nolan's three. But I'm getting sidetracked here in talking about personal movie preference when that's not at all what brought me into this discussion in the first place. It was strictly about whether or not the costumes were more cartoonish/silly/comical. That was the style of the original movies - over the top. There's no argument to be had there. If you prefer that look, great, there are many people that don't.

 

[Jokes & Bats]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Like I said, I was already 17 when the first Batman movie came out - arguably already far too old to treat it very seriously - but expecting a more serious treatment from the producers at the time.

More serious? It was dark and gothic. It had adult themes throughout. How much more serious do you want for a film based on a superhero?

 

[Remy]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

For a movie that was made way back in 89 and is still entertaining today, I think Tim Burton has done an amazing job.
And the fact that his suit is basically the template for today's superheroes is another testament of his vision at the time.
Tim Burton is a brilliant artist/director.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Then you should watch interviews with Tim Burton and the other people responsible for the movies to set you straight. It's difficult to comprehend that anyone could say that the original movies, including sets and costumes weren't silly, whimsical, comical and devoid of any semblance of realism (in other words, surreal) - that was the whole point behind the creative decisions they made at the time. This flows through every part of the movie, including dialog and plot.

What interviews are you watching?


The filmmakers, cast and crew of Batman all set out to make a darker, more serious version of the character that was far removed from the Adam West show (not that there was anything wrong with that take, or that there's anything wrong with camp).


What aspects of Batman, the character, are campy, silly or comical in Batman 1989? I really want to know. Is it the black body armor as opposed to the light grays and blues? The fact that instead of quipping and making puns or tongue and cheek jokes, this character barely even jokes or says a word? Maybe it's that no-nonsense, grim expression that he has on his face? Does that make him silly that he takes everything serious or when he's offended when someone claims that he may be psychotic? How about publicity? The 60s show Batman, Schumacher Batman and Nolan Batman all go out in public and are practically known when they're seen in day light and in person. The 1989 Batman? He hides in the shadows. He doesn't let Vicki Vale get a look at him.

Realism? Huh?

The first Batman film started the trend of black body armor. The first Batman film invented/introduced the idea of the grapple gun. Batman stores his suit in an armory vault instead of sliding down a pole and magically getting his suit. All of his toys were grounded in reality just like the Nolan films. The difference? The first film didn't explain them. It didn't have a check list of mentioning how everything functioned and worked practically, it just went with the audience. The Bale Batman borrows all of that. The rubber suit, the gear, the armory vault, etc. etc. Instead, it's more factitious with it the explanations. "Oh, yeah, Batman's suit was a military Nomex survival suit", "Batman's Batmobile? Military base jumping vehicle", "The cape? Memory fabric". "Grapple gun? Uhhh, gas powered".

That's the only difference. In Batman 1989, they're more subtle with it. "Some kind of body armor" for the armor. "How much do you weigh" and gas spewing out of the hook for the grapple gun (which of course jams the reel winch mechanism since the weight exceeds the limit).

It didn't bog you down with how the world worked and functioned, it just was. How can anyone fault it for that? I like the explanations in the Nolan movies as much as the next guy, but there's nothing wrong with how Batman functioned in the Burton films. In fact, as far as suits and weaponry goes, that Batman had the most practical weapons FIRST. His Batarang and Grapple gun weren't these flashy, gaudy weapons that Schumacher used. The first grapple gun in 1989? It's the iphone 4 whereas the huge, Begins grapple is like some big, clunky 80s cellular device that might as well be a hand canon.

 

[Maglor]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

My point was those facts don't matter. It's the end result that's important, and it simply doesn't work today. You can't explain away the faults with reasons for their existence.



Which happens to be based on fact - have you watched the movies? Telling someone that what they write is an opinion, is not only weak, it's aggravating to read. Don't do it, it really makes your argument fall apart and no one will take you seriously. Honestly, it's about as strong as plugging your ears and yelling "nya nya nya I can't hear you"



Then you should watch interviews with Tim Burton and the other people responsible for the movies to set you straight. It's difficult to comprehend that anyone could say that the original movies, including sets and costumes weren't silly, whimsical, comical and devoid of any semblance of realism (in other words, surreal) - that was the whole point behind the creative decisions they made at the time. This flows through every part of the movie, including dialog and plot.

Um... sorry to aggravate you?


I'll let DiFabio carry the other side of the argument as he can do it much better than I can.


Personally, I love Burton. He's is one of my favorite directors. It is precisely his whimsical approach to film making that makes his Batman films timeless. Perhaps a teenager will see than as 'too fake', but they will always appeal to adult lovers of the surreal, gothic, and whimsical (these are different than 'campy, silly or comical'). Especially Returns.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I love them both. Both Batman interpretations. I'm sure you do too Maglor. I hate seeing the two pitted against each other.


That "camp" and "cheesy" stuff just doesn't fly though. That's not an opinion pixelpiper may have, that's fact. They took Batman as seriously as possible in the context of the 80s with the first two films. He didn't joke, he was dark and he was brooding. The tone was serious and hardly "light hearted", even with today's standards.

If not being able to turn your head with full neck movement is "camp" or hoakey, then what's that say about Batman's personality and voice in TDK and TDKR? He talks in that over the top voice that everyone mocks and parodies. He even talks in it when nobody is around (thus ruling out the idea that the voice is practical to hide his identity), quipping, "so that's what that feels like"! They even exploit the fact that his whole disappearing act, a quality of Batman, is sort of a farcical thing.

'89/Returns Batman was never a parody of himself. The story never put him in 60s type situations. It never exploited the character or made it seem like the whole concept is ridiculous. Did it have influences, sure? Penguin for Mayor comes to mind. But the recent Bat-Flicks had those as well. Batman himself never dabbled in the character that was Adam West and might have been more serious and "dark" than even the Bale Batman himself. It never got to "holy rusted metal, Batman" levels.

 

[Maglor]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Agreed on all points.