**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[Khev]

I think if there were no *consequences* for his actions then I'd have a problem with it. But he definitely suffers for his sins, for the rest of his life in fact.

 

[jye4ever]

It was always a complicated subject.

Vader in the OT oversees millions of kids vaporized. He orchestrated his half-brother’s death. He tortures Han just for fun (“they didn’t even ask me any questions…”). He knows who his son is, and rather than be overjoyed his child survived, he slices his hand off then does nothing to stop him from attempting to jump to his death. He later learns Leia is his daughter and goads Luke saying he could always just kill him and corrupt her instead.

Then the PT come along Anakin was butchering kids by Episode 2. And that’s when he was the “good” version…

I don’t have a problem with Vader’s villainy or his redemption. …but in hindsight, the overly optimistic ending of Episode 6 doesn’t work so well in the whole saga’s context.

Holy crap lololol

 

[MaulFan]

Maulfan over reacted but it’s all good he loves this show now if I could only get him to hate GvK and these new Halloween movies lol

Not an overreaction, just trying to lighten things up lol

I love this show, I love GvK and I love the modern Halloween trilogy.

 

[jye4ever]

Obviously he wasn't as young as the younglings in the temple but he was definitely a teenager.

I never hated the moral quandary of Anakin killing children, what always annoyed me is that he should have had bigger fish to fry in that moment. It was like the clones were doing all the heavy lifting in Order 66 and Anakin was just doing clean up work on the easy targets. That's what was the lamest part to me. I would have preferred that the clones took out the kids while Anakin killing full fledged Knights and Masters.

Now /\THIS/\ is pod racing!

 

[a-dev]

a-dev - ''should I pretend I didn't see what Khev wro-''

Snoopy -

 

[greygoose]

I don't think that's a good thing. Make him scary, sure, but not by having him kill children. (I'm taking your and Jye's word that it was a child. I didn't think it was when I watched the episode and I haven't rewatched it.)

It was a terrible decision by Lucas in the PT and I'm surprised Disney has doubled down on it.

Why now would anyone want to see a man like this ''redeemed'' as opposed to just killed outright for his crimes?

Yes I know he allowed and oversaw the destruction of an entire populated planet but the cruelty entailed in the personal up close slaughter of children nevertheless makes it that much harder to buy that this guy ''has good in him'' and warrants anything other than being put down.

Luke kills over a million people when he blows up the Death Star.

 

[jye4ever]

Luke kills over a million people when he blows up the Death Star.

But Khev hit the nail on the head it would’ve made Anakin a better Vader had Lucas shown him going after hard targets instead of soft targets!

a-dev’s disgust stands.

 

[Khev]

Well I mean he wasn’t a youngling but he definitely was under 18 so legally not an adult so lets just say adolescent…in other words a kid but I prefer child it just sounds more horrible than kid but not as horrific as youngling you keeping up with me here lol

Honestly after Alderaan I really don’t think younglings and adolescents makes him even more of a monster because Alderaan had millions if not billions of children wiped out.

Showing him taking out a small group up close and personal just proved that he is capable of taking out an entire planet once his power was the size of the Empire.

So yeah you either accept his redemption which is the core foundation of the Christian doctrine or you think Luke is an idiot who should’ve stuck to being an atheist lol

Wait I don’t know why I brought that up my bad lol

You stated that in such a more mod friendly manner than me, lol.

To me the best SW has a bit of an edge to it. Stuff that makes you go, "whoa, that happened...I'm not sure how I feel about that morally..." Stuff that makes you think.

I remember as wee little six year old watching ESB in the theater in 1980 and being shocked and horrified watching the main character get his hand chopped off (since fake hands had yet to be revealed) yet also fascinated by the prospect of Vader's proposal for Luke to join him. I was so conflicted, lol.

I remember being quite disturbed watching the Gammorean Guard fall into the Rancor pit and then seeing Jabba and the other palace denizens, including other Gammorean Guards (!), laughing while he screamed in terror and his bones were shattered and he was eaten alive.

Compared to now where I roll my freaking eyes at Reva being too "protected" as a character to show her doing anything truly dastardly before she has a change of heart. She's supposedly evil but at least up to now conveniently never kills anyone who is innocent or on the side of good. Yawn, what an epic about face she's going to have.

But Vader executing innocent and terrified townspeople on a whim? Now that is behavior becoming of arguably the greatest screen villain of all time. You don't want that guy setting foot anywhere near your freaking zip code. Get that "only kills worthy opponents who are already evil" Reva **** out of here, lol.

 

[Khev]

We're halfway through the series and it certainly seems to have the lowest reason for being of the Disney shows.

I disagree. I feel quite the opposite and think that this may have been one of the most necessary, possibly the most necessary show that Disney has made (arguably including the movies as well.)

Why? Because for me I feel like I needed something to redeem PT era Obi-Wan and Vader. And as of yesterday this show did it!

Vader being scary, Ewan being so sympathetic, an OT-esque lightsaber duel with so much emotion (as opposed to empty overchoreography), I really needed this for these characters. I feel like I'll always be able to watch the PT with these versions of the characters in the back of my mind now. Thank God, lol. And if they can somehow stay the course and have some sort of rematch that makes us both cheer for Kenobi and see Vader put back in his place as the "learner," man...chef's kiss.

 

[jye4ever]

You stated that in such a more mod friendly manner than me, lol.

To me the best SW has a bit of an edge to it. Stuff that makes you go, "whoa, that happened...I'm not sure how I feel about that morally..." Stuff that makes you think.

I remember as wee little six year old watching ESB in the theater in 1980 and being shocked and horrified watching the main character get his hand chopped off (since fake hands had yet to be revealed) yet also fascinated by the prospect of Vader's proposal for Luke to join him. I was so conflicted, lol.

I remember being quite disturbed watching the Gammorean Guard fall into the Rancor pit and then seeing Jabba and the other palace denizens, including other Gammorean Guards (!), laughing while he screamed in terror and his bones were shattered and he was eaten alive.

Compared to now where I roll my freaking eyes at Reva being too "protected" as a character to show her doing anything truly dastardly before she has a change of heart. She's supposedly evil but at least up to now conveniently never kills anyone who is innocent or on the side of good. Yawn, what an epic about face she's going to have.

But Vader executing innocent and terrified townspeople on a whim? Now that is behavior becoming of arguably the greatest screen villain of all time. You don't want that guy setting foot anywhere near your freaking zip code. Get that "only kills worthy opponents who are already evil" Reva **** out of here, lol.

There are those that actually prefer their villains to be cowards who would take the easy road of killing softer targets instead of engaging harder targets.

I get that and it works in certain circumstances but I prefer a more bad ass Vader going after hard targets.

Sith Grogu when lol

 

[a-dev]

Ajp......hear me, Ajp.....

 

[Khev]

There are those that actually prefer their villains to be cowards who would take the easy road of killing softer targets instead of engaging harder targets.

I get that and it works in certain circumstances but I prefer a more bad ass Vader going after hard targets.

Sith Grogu when lol

Wait are you agreeing or disagreeing with me, lol.

My point was that I'm fine with Vader taking out soft targets but for heaven's sake just not at the expense of going after hard targets, lol.

Tusken camp = acceptable

Jedi Temple = lame

Obi-Wan show where he kills women, children, and kicks Obi-Wan's ass = Dang...

See to me that puts him into Terminator or Xenomorph or JAWS territory. Doesn't care who you are or what your age is. You cross its path, you're probably dead. That is truly scary.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

I disagree. I feel quite the opposite and think that this may have been one of the most necessary, possibly the most necessary show that Disney has made (arguably including the movies as well.)

Why? Because for me I feel like I needed something to redeem PT era Obi-Wan and Vader. And as of yesterday this show did it!

Vader being scary, Ewan being so sympathetic, an OT-esque lightsaber duel with so much emotion (as opposed to empty overchoreography), I really needed this for these characters. I feel like I'll always be able to watch the PT with these versions of the characters in the back of my mind now. Thank God, lol. And if they can somehow stay the course and have some sort of rematch that makes us both cheer for Kenobi and see Vader put back in his place as the "learner," man...chef's kiss.

Sadly, what you're describing should have been the prequels in the first place. In the prequels, Ob-Wan was a stiff, unlikeable, bore, Anakin's "turn" was laughable and "Darth Vader" was essentially an afterthought.

Yesterday's episode, as flawed as it was in terms of direction and writing, was what people were actually hoping for when Lucas returned to tell more SW stories. When it comes to Kenobi and Vader, as for the rest of the show, Leia, Inquisitors, Reva, that's all more prequel level crap.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

I think this show would have been better not having Kenobi in it at all.

I like Joel Edgerton as an actor. A story about young Luke and the tension with Uncle Owen and how Leia grew up on Alderaan, just focusing on that, would have been more interesting.

The problem with Kenobi is you get his front story and his end story trapped by the films. There's not much tension or stakes when you know where he'll end up anyway. Also there was quite a bit of a confused mess with Lucas and his prequels and that created more traps for the character.

Rogue One, I really loved, because there really was a lot more freedom in the storytelling.

IMHO, there are great Star Wars stories in a really rich universe that can be explored away from the main characters. I also think there's a saturation point with characters that are so entrenched.

I'm still a big believer that's why the first Guardians Of The Galaxy was so successful on both a critical level but also a marketing/monetary level. Jame Gunn really did have way more freedom because these were not popular/then mainstream characters.

The other issue is the original Star Wars was not pure sadness porn. And there is just a lot of nihilism in Kenobi. I get why that's happening based on the canon around it, but it's kind of exhausting for many viewers.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

There are those that actually prefer their villains to be cowards who would take the easy road of killing softer targets instead of engaging harder targets.

I get that and it works in certain circumstances but I prefer a more bad ass Vader going after hard targets.

Sith Grogu when lol

He's kind of doing both at the same time in this episode. He doesn't care about these people at all, they're of no use to him other than a way of forcing Kenobi out of his hiding spot. He's just using soft targets to attack a harder target.

 

[LoveMinusZero]

I think this show would have been better not having Kenobi in it at all.

I like Joel Edgerton as an actor. A story about young Luke and the tension with Uncle Owen and how Leia grew up on Alderaan, just focusing on that, would have been more interesting.

The problem with Kenobi is you get his front story and his end story trapped by the films. There's not much tension or stakes when you know where he'll end up anyway. Also there was quite a bit of a confused mess with Lucas and his prequels and that created more traps for the character.

Rogue One, I really loved, because there really was a lot more freedom in the storytelling.

IMHO, there are great Star Wars stories in a really rich universe that can be explored away from the main characters. I also think there's a saturation point with characters that are so entrenched.

I'm still a big believer that's why the first Guardians Of The Galaxy was so successful on both a critical level but also a marketing/monetary level. Jame Gunn really did have way more freedom because these were not popular/then mainstream characters.

The other issue is the original Star Wars was not pure sadness porn. And there is just a lot of nihilism in Kenobi. I get why that's happening based on the canon around it, but it's kind of exhausting for many viewers.

Andor will be this kind of story. It already looks better than the other Disney series.

I dont think Kenobi needed a series either. What they should have don, is what most people were really intrigued by prior to the prequels being a thing. The Jedi Purge. You should have had a series where Vader and the Empire are hunting down Jedi and destroying what's left of them while Vader hunts for Kenobi.

I know that may sound what this series is about, but it really isn't. Disney has made the same mistake Lucas made with the prequels, by leaving the most interesting parts that people want to see out of the actual film/series. Lucas left the entirety of the infamous Clone Wars in between films, as well as the important relationship building of Anakin & Obi-Wan. Then it ends only as Vader comes into being and the Jedi Purge starts. Disney then leaves 10years of the Jedi Purge and the hunt for Kenobi before their own series starts.

 

[Garlador]

One thing that is abundantly clear… This is everything BoBF was NOT.

Where BoBF felt sanitized, watered down, aimless, toothless, and safe - even during the parts I liked - this show is refreshingly bold. The very tone is dour, the world violent and fearful. There’s legit tension. Civilian casualties. Good people dying senseless deaths. Fights that aren’t overly long or stylish but brutal, graphic, and short.

It’s got some flaws, but, geez, last episode had multiple moments of violence, tragedy, and tension that surpassed every minute of BoBF put together.

It makes me wonder what that previous show could’ve been with this level of confidence and grit.

 

[Otomofan]

To me the best SW has a bit of an edge to it. Stuff that makes you go, "whoa, that happened...I'm not sure how I feel about that morally..." Stuff that makes you think.

I remember as wee little six year old watching ESB in the theater in 1980 and being shocked and horrified watching the main character get his hand chopped off (since fake hands had yet to be revealed) yet also fascinated by the prospect of Vader's proposal for Luke to join him. I was so conflicted, lol.

I remember being quite disturbed watching the Gammorean Guard fall into the Rancor pit and then seeing Jabba and the other palace denizens, including other Gammorean Guards (!), laughing while he screamed in terror and his bones were shattered and he was eaten alive.

Oh man...same here!! I was only about 5. My dad had taken my older sister first in order to see if me and my brother could handle it.

My mom gave me what we would now call a "trigger warning." She said "In the movie, Luke gets his hand cut off, but don't get scared cause they give him a new one in the end."

I was trembling with excitement and fear in the movie. I'd never, ever, ever seen good guys LOSE before in anything I'd watched up to that point. The movie was almost over and Luke was OK....maybe my mom was wrong or something OH NO! OH ****! THERE IT IS HE JUST CUT HIS FREAKING HAND OFF!!!

But yes, seeing him have a new prosthetic hand at the end calmed me down. Now I just needed to see Han freed from that block of frozen metal so we could go home.

Wait...CREDITS?? WTF?? They didn't save Han?? What kind of a messed up world do we live in??

ESB was a very important movie as far as my emotional development. I understood that the world is indeed a scary and unfair place. In fact, it traumatized me so deeply I closed my eyes at the premiere of ROTJ cause I honestly believed by that point that the rancor COULD eat Luke!! Why not?? BAD BAD things happen in the SW universe!

Man....I was JUST the right age for the OT. It was thrilling, amazing, inspiring, but also dangerous.

I think that sense of danger is so compelling for little kids....that's why I loved Transformers the Movie so much a few years later. My favorite toys that used to just joke around on the "safe" TV show got blown to pieces in horrible, gruesome ways, and they did NOT get "fixed" and get back up and be "all better."

Movies like Predator and RoboCop continued my fascination with the idea that "hey man....the world is not a safe place."

And even a few years later, I saw AKIRA for the first time, and I was probably just a few years too young to see that when I did. AKIRA is absolutely ULTRA violent and lot of people forget that. The body count is easily in the triple digits. But it had that sense of "danger" I loved from ESB and TF:TM and to this day, all of those movies remain on my all time favorite list cause I remember what it felt like to see them as a child and have his worldview blown wide open.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I can flatly say that I do not like this series. I think it is cheap, rushed, and poorly directed and acted.

I can also say that I enjoyed seeing Vader being a monster again last night. I will never forget that sequence.

For me, this series is a lot like the PT -- there are some elements that I really like but most of it is near unwatchable for me.

I have witnessed many amazing things in the Disney Star Wars universe:

I saw Leia fly...

I saw Vader go 'rogue' on rebel troopers!

I saw Boba Fett slide across the floor in diapers...

I saw a Rancor be cuddly...

I saw a little 'baby Yoda' tap on the window to go faster...

I saw a young Jedi named Luke Skywalker take out a regiment of Dark Troopers...

I have seen many things that will stay with me forever.

 

[davejames]

The other issue is the original Star Wars was not pure sadness porn. And there is just a lot of nihilism in Kenobi. I get why that's happening based on the canon around it, but it's kind of exhausting for many viewers.

Yeah as much as I like Ewan's performance in this show, the character does come across a little TOO haunted and traumatized for my taste, as if the events of ROTS only occurred a week ago instead of 10 years ago. And it just doesn't really seem to fit that genial and unflappable character we saw both in the prequels and OT.

Hell even a few scenes after his epic duel with Anakin he was already back to his old self again. Lol