The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[MaulFan]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Ya, it's a bit like Julianne Moore taking over Starling for Jodie Foster in the Hannibal films, she did a good job acting, but it was just strange how different they looked. Still enjoyed it, but it's odd.

I'd say at least 50% of the Nolan Batman fandom post TDK is VERY attached to Ledger as the Joker and would be very unreceptive to him played by anyone else. So from a business standpoint alone, it'd be a bad move.

 

[Hulksmashed]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Yeah I can see why they needed her! It wasnt a coincidence, I am sure, that the two actresses bear a striking resemlance to one another as well as sound similar.

 

[MaulFan]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Makes sense, even without Dent, Rachel was key enough to Bruce's path, though I suppose if not for Dent too, they could have written her off as having died between films and still have an impact on Bruce.

 

[pjam]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I read somewhere that the decision to replace Holmes was only because Rachel's storyline was so important to the overall progression of the characters of the film and she needed to have that strong tie to Bruce. He mentioned that had Rachel Dawes not been so important to the progression of Batman and Two Face that she wouldn't have been included.

Nope. The Studio nixed Holmes for several reasons. The Execs were pretty adamant about it. She didn't hold up in the Film. Didn't have the chops. Tom's antics at the BB Premiere was more salt in the wound. WB had had it. She was out.

Rachel's character was simply replaced by a more "worthy" actress.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Having her written off between films is less impacting especially on an audience then seeing her die. Once she dies you can visually see a difference in how Bruce acts in both his personal persona and as Batman. Although I severely disagree about Holmes and Maggie looking similar. She is fairly cute and well built while Maggie....well....let's just say when Ledger talked about how beautiful she was it broke me right from the film.

 

[Hulksmashed]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I'd say at least 50% of the Nolan Batman fandom post TDK is VERY attached to Ledger as the Joker and would be very unreceptive to him played by anyone else. So from a business standpoint alone, it'd be a bad move.

For sure! Not a chance Nolan will take I would say.

In the comic books the Joker has been portrayed soooo many different ways. From clown like gimmick master to just down right insane. Each one works in its own way but the style of Joker remains constent throughout a particular story. Changing the actor that plays The Joker in the Nolan Films would be like changing the style of Joker in a book half way through. Loses consistency and comes across lame.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

The Studio nixed Holmes.

I know that due more to the Tom Cruise publicity nightmare than anything else but the Nolans and Goyer had the option right there to just let Rachel walk away but because of her tie to Bruce, the last person other than Alfred she had, they felt she was the perfect character to continue the arc. I have to say I agree.

 

[Hulksmashed]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Although I severely disagree about Holmes and Maggie looking similar. She is fairly cute and well built while Maggie....well....let's just say when Ledger talked about how beautiful she was it broke me right from the film.

Haha, I completely agree with Maggies... lack of luster lets say....

Still she is much closer then like Gwenyth Paltrow. In fact if you squint and the light is dim and your partially blind in both eyes and you have a severe epileptic fit at the same time...the two look pretty similar!

 

[pjam]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I know that due more to the Tom Cruise publicity nightmare than anything else but the Nolans and Goyer had the option right there to just let Rachel walk away but because of her tie to Bruce, the last person other than Alfred she had, they felt she was the perfect character to continue the arc. I have to say I agree.

No, not due more to the Tom Publicity nightmare. That was salt in the wound. WB Execs already had their minds made up. I know one Exec who told me some cringed when they saw her in a screening of The Final Cut. It was obvious. And a consensus. She was gone.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Nope. The Studio nixed Holmes for several reasons. The Execs were pretty adamant about it. She didn't hold up in the Film. Didn't have the chops. Tom's antics at the BB Premiere was more salt in the wound. WB had had it. She was out. Rachel's character was simply replaced by a more "worthy" actress.

Since you went up and edited I'll answer here. While I'm sure there were several reasons let's put it this way... She acted no better and no worse than she always done from Dawson's Creek to The Gift (yeah baby) to Teaching Mrs. Tingle. The same lackluster yet strangely geeky and cute acting and look she always has. WB knew exactly what would show up on screen. To say that the final cut is what threw it over shows just how little the execs pay attention.

Either way, its less to do with the Holmes factor and more to do with the fact that the Rachel character was so needed that Maggie went in as Rachel Dawes and not Sara Smith or Vikki Vale.

 

[MaulFan]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

In a way, the differences in presence worked for the character. Holmes worked well for a young Rachel just getting her feet wet and all. Gyllenhal had a greater maturity to her and came off as more seasoned and more involved in the political process. Worked great for the character evolution even if the sound and look changed.

 

[Ironman1188]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Ok, Ok I get it. You guys are right.
Guess that's why the Bond series died out so long ago.....

 

[MaulFan]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I'm not familiar with Bond movies, but can it be said that each actor who's plaid him, the films were different in tone/style, ways where it was quite different from the others?

Ledger isn't the end all of the Joker on screen, but in Nolan's story, I think he is, between Heath's death and the likelihood of a trilogy and not taking up the 3rd act with a character already visited.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Ok, Ok I get it. You guys are right.
Guess that's why the Bond series died out so long ago.....

Apples and Oranges and you know it. The Bond series has been famous for switching out main actors and directors, hell they've changed directors in the middle of a Bond's string. Bronsan's films were done by different directors. We are talking about the same director who was given a blank check to do whatever they want with the franchise who has been publically stating that they don't want to replace Heath. That is where it begins and ends. If Nolans doesn't want it, then it won't happen. If he changes his mind it will and after the money printing machine that TDK was, no one down at WB will stop him.

 

[Riko]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

I think Robin could be cool (they already said they wouldnt do him though). Instead of the traditional campy Robin though, a vigilante with a score to settle. In other words, Nightwing.

robin, nightwing
it's just another name for the same bullcrap

 

[DinoLast]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Bales Batman is too young to have a Robin. It would only make sense when the Dark Knight reaches his mid forties and he's looking for somebody to pass the torch to

 

[aussieinnyc]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Why? Almost any sililarly built person could be made to look the part. And as for the voice, it wasn't ledger's, it was Joker's, an actor could do that as well. I've seen Frank Gorshin do Kirk Douglas, Rich Little do Johnny Carson and Frank Calindrello(?) do a whole bunch of modern guys. I'm sure, if it was what they wanted, that it could be done.

What you're describing is someone doing an impression. And no self-respecting actor would do that. Definitely not one of the calibre/box-office draw that would be needed to replace Ledger. Speaking from a publicity stand-point, if they got in another actor to play the Joker, the resulting scrutiny that would be on that actor would almost guarantee it would have to be a big box-office name. And no big name actor is going to do an impression (before you start mentioning films like Milk, Frost/Nixon and Capote, those were interpretations of real-life people, not someone copying another actor's performance - that's why Jim Carey's performance in Man on the Moon was not nominated for an Oscar - the Academy felt it was too close to an impression).

There's also no way that Nolan would sanction an actor producing a carbon-copy of Ledger's performance - that would reflect negatively on him as a director as well.

I'm not saying that no one else could play the role. I'm not even saying that no one else could play the role in a Nolan film. I do, however, think that they way you describe another actor could take the role is incorrect and impossible given the artistic integrity of the creative team.

Beyond all that though, I just think that given the circumstances of why Ledger is not available to reprise the role, there is way too much emotion attached by both the public and the creative team for them to bring back the character as played by another actor.

 

[Moonloop]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Bales Batman is too young to have a Robin. It would only make sense when the Dark Knight reaches his mid forties and he's looking for somebody to pass the torch to

Bale said if they were to ever introduce Robin during his and Nolan's films, he would leave the franchise. I don't think Nolan or Goyer want a Robin either and it is really in their hands to decide.

 

[Hulksmashed]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

robin, nightwing
it's just another name for the same bullcrap

haha, Robin is only lame because he was portrayed that way. His character could be very interesting if they gave him a new origin story and made him more fierce then farce. Doesnt matter though, Nolan and Bale won't allow it to happen.

 

[The Mike]

Re: Batman/Dark Knight 3rd Film

Robin could be done well, Frank Miller did a good job introducing him in the All-Star series. The thing is Goyer, Nolan and Bale all said if Robin is here then they won't be. So I'm sure the studio won't be pressuring one way or another, although much like the Burton/Schumacher transitions, if Nolan steps away after this as he has said he was going to do since the beginning then I wouldn't be surprised if the next person walking into the franchise introduces him.