Media-Movie Suicide Squad Hot Toys figures

[melkorjunior]

That's what you call an excuse for making a major plot gaffe... but then, this is the MCU and that can't be... right?

An excuse for a major plot gaffe? Zola actually gives the audience this exact explanation in The Winter Soldier. After he was captured he was invited to become part of SHIELD. Black Widow mentioned it was part of the Project Paperclip program, when Nazi scientists were allowed to work in the US after the war. He said that HYDRA then grew within SHIELD due to the efforts of himself and those original Nazis. How is that a plot gaffe?

I know the DC fans are feeling a bit picked on these days with all the Marvel hoopla going on, but you can't criticize Marvel movies by inventing plot holes that don't exist.

If it makes you feel better, I think the first Avengers movie was extremely over-hyped and I don't even list it in the top three Marvel movies. I also think the Thor movies are nothing more than mediocre. I haven't seen AOU yet, but everything I'm hearing, especially about Black Widow and Bruce Banner, makes me think I'll like it even less than the first Avengers. None of this changes the fact that Man of Steel was a polarizing movie that lots of people, myself included, didn't like due to its portrayal of Superman, and none of this changes the fact that for a movie featuring Superman's triumphant return to the big screen, it under-performed financially. Maybe Batman vs. Superman will turn this around. Myself, I worry about Ben Affleck as Batman, but I'm looking forward to Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman.

 

[Motuxmen]

Marvel talk in Suicide Squad figures thread.

WGAF

Oh, so you have news and info on the figures then? New stuff about the movie? No? Then what exactly would you like to talk about?

 

[dario2739]

How do you know they are coherent? On top of not having seen two of the three movies, two of them are not even finished.

As for the people you say are not in the know...I worked on them. So I feel pretty confident I would have a better grasp on how these are done then say, someone who didn't.

As for your building and corp names being a sign of a shared universe...if THAT is all it takes nearly every movie every made shares a common universe.

Do they need a post credits scene..no. But what happens when you don't have a detailed laid out plan you can get the stuff that often happens in comics, where one story contradicts another, and lots of contradicting info and things that make no sense.

Just for example....if superman was around on earth for 32 years, over lapping with older batman, why did he not do anything? Or let's say, with the way they are letting future films be "connected" but independent and the filmmaker of each flick has total control...let's say in Aquaman a major event contradicts what was shown in SS, or what not.

As for someone saying Zach has kinda the Fiege roll...not the case. dC/WB has a kind of "board" with executives and others on it. But no one is in charge. And they have made it clear that they do not want to have a set of rules. They want to allow each director/filmmaker to have full autonomy.

Superman vs. Batman? DC's Real Battle Is How to Create Its Superhero Universe - Hollywood Reporter

Here's some of the same points....


Also, up until 2012-13 the WB plan was to have Chris Nolan run the whole DCU, having him as essentially their Kevin Fiege...they where also planning to bring Bale back as batman. Problems arose, partly because they made this plan without actually having Nolan or bale on board. So that caused a total reboot of thier plans. But the people in charge, and those in charge of the money mostly, where tired of seeing marvel and disney destroy them at the box office. So they quickly changed man of steel 2 into batman vs superman and this whole new thing began. The problem is, it's like marvel going from iron man 1 straight into avengers. Without fleshed out world or characters, and no firm guidance it's a shot in the dark.

Personally I'm very happy with how BvS has looked so far. That doesn't mean people's concerns are unfounded.

First bolded point – I know they're all coherent in the same way you know they're not!

You say all the references I have highlighted in MOS don't make a shared universe... well, with the exception of the post credit scene in Iron Man - the first MCU movie – what evidence of a shared universe is there?

As for Superman overlapping with Batman... simply, Batman works in Gotham - he's not super powered and Gotham's enough for one man to look after. Plus Batman does't know of Superman's existence until the events of MOS, THEN he takes notice – which is obviously what BvS is dealing with.
It's also pretty obivous that Superman is the catalyst for other heroes to show themselves – the effects of the World Engine on the ocean is probably what brings Aquaman to the surface. Similarly the events in Smallville and Metropolis will prompt the Amazons to send Diana, and are probably the cause of Vic Stone's injuries which will lead to him becoming Cyborg.
Batman being in SS shows they exist in the same universe, which is just as choherent as GOTG's link to the MCU, or CA's etc. etc.
I love the Marvel films, but it really annoys me hearing the DCU being slagged off with no good reason!

 

[dario2739]

An excuse for a major plot gaffe? Zola actually gives the audience this exact explanation in The Winter Soldier. After he was captured he was invited to become part of SHIELD. Black Widow mentioned it was part of the Project Paperclip program, when Nazi scientists were allowed to work in the US after the war. He said that HYDRA then grew within SHIELD due to the efforts of himself and those original Nazis. How is that a plot gaffe?

The fact that they have to explain themselves in the movie suggest it was a mistake – also let's look at this logically.. in WW2 Nazi scientists were captured by the allies –*did they let them go back and work - in Russia/Germany with the enemy whilst the war was still on... or afterwards for that matter? No they kept them under close scrutiny working on US soil!
All the trouble the US went to, to capture Zola they wouldn't let him go back to Europe like that, it's ridiculous!

Don't get me wrong in all this – I love most of the MCU movies, especially both CA movies and the first Avengers movie – but I don't have the emotional attachment to the characters like I do with the DC heroes.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

All movies have plot holes. Some are blatant and some only show up after a lot of viewings and scrutiny. I am not bashing the MCU. I like it a lot actually. But I do not need the DCCU to be a carbon copy of it. I want DC/WB to blaze their own trail. MOS and now BVS seem to be doing that. I like how BVS seems to be picking up exactly where that story left off. There is a corner of the internet that believes Marvel can do no wrong, even when it is pointed out that Marvel is in fact wrong. Like the people defending Marvel/Disney for this whole no Black Widow toys thing. There is no defending that bs. Yet, people clamor to do so. I will never tell anyone that they must believe that a movie sucks. Everyone has different tastes and is entitled to them. I love MOS, others don't. Oh well, it won't stop me from watching and enjoying the film. People love the Thor films, I find them to be garbage. It happens.

If anyone is interested in seeing where I think the DCCU is taking their inspiration for Superman from, I recommend the Superman: Earth One graphic novels. It is all about a young Clark trying to find his path and his way in the world. They released Vol 3 this year and it was just as good as the first 2. And I think they are pulling elements from these books into their films.

 

[dario2739]

All movies have plot holes. Some are blatant and some only show up after a lot of viewings and scrutiny. I am not bashing the MCU. I like it a lot actually. But I do not need the DCCU to be a carbon copy of it. I want DC/WB to blaze their own trail. MOS and now BVS seem to be doing that. I like how BVS seems to be picking up exactly where that story left off. There is a corner of the internet that believes Marvel can do no wrong, even when it is pointed out that Marvel is in fact wrong. Like the people defending Marvel/Disney for this whole no Black Widow toys thing. There is no defending that bs. Yet, people clamor to do so. I will never tell anyone that they must believe that a movie sucks. Everyone has different tastes and is entitled to them. I love MOS, others don't. Oh well, it won't stop me from watching and enjoying the film. People love the Thor films, I find them to be garbage. It happens.

If anyone is interested in seeing where I think the DCCU is taking their inspiration for Superman from, I recommend the Superman: Earth One graphic novels. It is all about a young Clark trying to find his path and his way in the world. They released Vol 3 this year and it was just as good as the first 2. And I think they are pulling elements from these books into their films.

Well put – better than I have tried to put it anyway!

 

[Sundowner]

All movies have plot holes. Some are blatant and some only show up after a lot of viewings and scrutiny. I am not bashing the MCU. I like it a lot actually. But I do not need the DCCU to be a carbon copy of it. I want DC/WB to blaze their own trail. MOS and now BVS seem to be doing that. I like how BVS seems to be picking up exactly where that story left off. There is a corner of the internet that believes Marvel can do no wrong, even when it is pointed out that Marvel is in fact wrong. Like the people defending Marvel/Disney for this whole no Black Widow toys thing. There is no defending that bs. Yet, people clamor to do so. I will never tell anyone that they must believe that a movie sucks. Everyone has different tastes and is entitled to them. I love MOS, others don't. Oh well, it won't stop me from watching and enjoying the film. People love the Thor films, I find them to be garbage. It happens.

If anyone is interested in seeing where I think the DCCU is taking their inspiration for Superman from, I recommend the Superman: Earth One graphic novels. It is all about a young Clark trying to find his path and his way in the world. They released Vol 3 this year and it was just as good as the first 2. And I think they are pulling elements from these books into their films.

 

[melkorjunior]

The fact that they have to explain themselves in the movie suggest it was a mistake/QUOTE]

Uh...no it doesn't. It's called exposition and every movie does it.You need the audience to get certain facts and you try to do it in a dramatic fashion. So Marvel had Zola do it as a means of stalling so he can take Cap out with a missile. That's all. And Zola never said he went to Europe. You don't think HYDRA had the means to smuggle Bucky back into the United States where Zola could work on him?

 

[Motuxmen]

First bolded point – I know they're all coherent in the same way you know they're not!

You say all the references I have highlighted in MOS don't make a shared universe... well, with the exception of the post credit scene in Iron Man - the first MCU movie – what evidence of a shared universe is there?

As for Superman overlapping with Batman... simply, Batman works in Gotham - he's not super powered and Gotham's enough for one man to look after. Plus Batman does't know of Superman's existence until the events of MOS, THEN he takes notice – which is obviously what BvS is dealing with.
It's also pretty obivous that Superman is the catalyst for other heroes to show themselves – the effects of the World Engine on the ocean is probably what brings Aquaman to the surface. Similarly the events in Smallville and Metropolis will prompt the Amazons to send Diana, and are probably the cause of Vic Stone's injuries which will lead to him becoming Cyborg.
Batman being in SS shows they exist in the same universe, which is just as choherent as GOTG's link to the MCU, or CA's etc. etc.
I love the Marvel films, but it really annoys me hearing the DCU being slagged off with no good reason!

What evidence of a shared universe in marvel? Not sure that's worth an answer.

As for how I know or don't know ie irreleavent. I restated an opinion that is both widely know and written about (that the DCU may have issues), and stated it was not my opinion. But how I know, would be as I have stated, having worked on the movies. So I said how I know, what about you?

And if you meant what is the shared info in just iron man...there's plenty. Shield, caps actual shield, hints about the hulk, which was in fact the first movie in the MCU not iron man, which also had caps shield and cap frozen in ice. They also had, as I ststed, by that point, a layout and guideline with how each character was to be introduced, the relationships to each character, what worlds knew about what, a whole time line. A series bible as it where. Which is what dc/WB is missing, along with someone to make those calls. That's why there is worry.

Your taking this personnel like kicked your dog. It's vaid concern raised by people at DC and WB as well as analyst. Your saying this could be and this may be....but you don't know. Your upset people are asking valid questions while you make up answers. It's fine to want it to work. But making stuff up isn't a valid defense my friend.

I've spent the better part of the last two years workings on BvS, and prep on JLA. I'm very sure im at least as invested in this as you are. So stop coming at me like I'm crapping on your hero. I'm stating questions and facts that are well known, and telling the differences I see between a DCU film and and MCU film. As isaid, worked on im1&2 and now BvS. I'm in a pretty unique place to know how the beginning of these two universes feel

 

[dario2739]

No it does... it really does!
In fact I watched both movie today and he in fact does not explain how he comes to be there! He says after the war he worked with S.H.I.E.L.D. as part of Operation Paperclip – he wouldn't have been let of US soil, and besides that Bucky's flashback clearly shows Zola there at the start of his capture, organising his brainwashing... when he was in Allied custody by his own admission.

The fact is, I love both Captain America films, even with their flaws... and there are flaws, but Marvel fans seem to deny any faults, whilst highlight even the tiniest flaw in DC movies – even pulling apart the BvS teaser trailer... teaser being the operative word there - without even knowing the storyline! I just want fairness and the same leeway afforded to MCU films given to DCU films. But regardless I will enjoy watching both.

 

[melkorjunior]

No it does... it really does!
In fact I watched both movie today and he in fact does not explain how he comes to be there! He says after the war he worked with S.H.I.E.L.D. as part of Operation Paperclip – he wouldn't have been let of US soil, and besides that Bucky's flashback clearly shows Zola there at the start of his capture, organising his brainwashing...

You understand that Bucky's been the Winter Soldier for almost 70 years, right? Zola was there at some point during the process of turning Bucky into the Winter Soldier. That doesn't mean he was there from the moment Bucky was discovered after his fall.

 

[Raindog421]

Geez, I just wanted to see a new Harley pic. After going back a page or two I forgot what thread I was even in.

 

[karamazov80]

Oh, so you have news and info on the figures then? New stuff about the movie? No? Then what exactly would you like to talk about?

I read this in Christian Bale's voice.

 

[dario2739]

You understand that Bucky's been the Winter Soldier for almost 70 years, right? Zola was there at some point during the process of turning Bucky into the Winter Soldier. That doesn't mean he was there from the moment Bucky was discovered after his fall.

Just watch the film again – Zola quite clearly there at the beginning, when he's captured and orders him to be put into freeze.
Even so, to think S.H.I.E.L.D. would let someone like Zola swan off to Russia for an extended period is ludicrous... which begs the other question of if the Winter Soldier is a Hydra agent, why the Soviet Red Star? Even the Nazi Hydra troops wore Hydra badges!?!

 

[dario2739]

You want Harley pics go to Superherohype SS forum, cos you won't get any in here

 

[Motuxmen]

Just watch the film again – Zola quite clearly there at the beginning, when he's captured and orders him to be put into freeze.
Even so, to think S.H.I.E.L.D. would let someone like Zola swan off to Russia for an extended period is ludicrous... which begs the other question of if the Winter Soldier is a Hydra agent, why the Soviet Red Star? Even the Nazi Hydra troops wore Hydra badges!?!

It's ludicrous if it was all shield. We know that hydra was in place from the start. So what shield would do is immaterial. And how do you know it's a Russian star? Maybe it's just a star. Maybe it's there becuase they wanted everyone to think he was Russian so hydra could stay under the radar. And cap knew Zola experimented on Bucky before he fell. So maybe that's what the flashback was. It's why he survived the fall. So if Bucky meet Zola before he fell, which he did, that means he met Zola before zola was captured by shield. Then, later, after Zola acclimated to shield/hydra he picked up his experiment.

And I just re watched Cap first avenger...Bucky was captured and held by hydra and Zola and cap freed him. That was the scene where he comes walking back to Tommmy Lee jones base. So, guess what, your wrong.

 

[melkorjunior]

"This thread needs an enema!" --The Joker.

 

[Greeky04]

Very poor choice of words - The Joker. ha ha

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[Sundowner]

"This thread needs an enema!" --The Joker.


View attachment 184901

Oh lord

 

[Sledge]

Yuck.