Star Wars: The Acolyte

[The Buffinator]

Fair enough.

But I gotta ask. While I felt sorry for Hayden being targeted for what was likely a losing proposition from the start, meaning playing the most famous villain on screen in the flesh, why do you refer to him as a Goddess?

He was a middle rate actor, given terrible lines, in mediocre films. It?s not his fault, but I fail to see what would elevate him to such status?

Unless it?s putting up with the toxic side of the fandom from all these years? For that, he deserves at least the title of Emperor.

Or was that a typo?

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Did he transition and Bravomite is the only one of us who knows? Hayden's gender neutral (Hayden Panettiere), so no name change required.

 

[Bravomite]

Rise.... Hate-boner.

Watch out while using your hate boner it might fall as fast as Anakin did in ROTS

Fair enough.

But I gotta ask. While I felt sorry for Hayden being targeted for what was likely a losing proposition from the start, meaning playing the most famous villain on screen in the flesh, why do you refer to him as a Godess?

He was a middle rate actor, given terrible lines, in mediocre films. It?s not his fault, but I fail to see what would elevate him to such status?

Unless it?s putting up with the toxic side of the fandom from all these years? For that, he deserves at least the title of Emperor.

Or was that a typo?


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Haha thanks for your reply, I think I was partially getting carried away with the anti ST and #lovethePT tropes I was digging into there - however, in honesty I do like Hayden and his performance in the PT. The reason is partly because I was too into Star Wars and young enough not to analyse the movies with a discerning eye when I first saw the PT. I never thought the acting was bad or the dialogue poor until much later (I did not know about the backlash against the movies) and by then they were already cemented into my childhood. I like the Anakin character in the PT era (movies but even more so in the EU books, I read all of them at the time and find it difficult to disassociate them in my mind from only the onscreen performance now). I watched all the behind the scenes interviews and Hayden who was just a kid himself at the time and he loved the movies and was super excited to be in them and I could totally relate. As an aside, George said he chose Hayden partly because he gave off a James Dean like charm which he thought would be good for the character (and this really comes across in the behind the scenes footage on AOTC) but then ironically George did not really direct him in that way at all haha.

Later I realised the tremendous backlash and hate directly largely at both Hayden and Ahmed Best (there were other casualties too) and it really annoys me that they were targeted in that way. Both their acting careers tanked and Ahmed went to a pretty dark place because of it (I have to imagine it affected Hayden too). As a result I am probably more defensive towards Hayden / Anakin and Ahmed / Jar Jar than perhaps their performances deserve. It makes me happy to see Hayden coming back to the Star Wars convention circuit and now return to play Anakin (I would like to see Ahmed return to Jar Jar too). I hope that he and Ahmed can now see that so many kids from that time did enjoy their performances and the characters they helped bring to the Star Wars universe, that they are appreciated.

I hope that the same will prove true for the ST actors as well - some of them received abuse that was not their fault and now no longer want to play Star Wars, they were doing as directed. Sure I don't enjoy the narrative (story) of those movies but I can appreciate that they did their best. My dislike is directed only towards the decision makers responsible for the onscreen results. KK (a very talented producer) and Rian (a good director) don't come across as fans of the universe and as a result didn't treat it or the built in fanbase with the respect that I feel they ought to have done when playing in that sand pit. JJ loves the OT (I can see that) and he was annoyed that Rian stamped down on his plot lines but his reaction to that pretty much terminated any chance of a cohesive series of movies. TFA and TLJ (whilst I'm not a fan) do flow together but TROS is so jarring as a follow up to TLJ.

Maybe one day if the spin off shows can remain near to Mando quality and continue to weave into the ST then I might just accept them.

 

[xipotec]

So much of the fandom is dictated by 2 things.

1. The age a fan saw each trilogy.
2. The unfettered desire of some?fans? to instantly jump on anything even minor to express their hatred toward the franchise they claim to love.

I don?t like most of the PT but the onus of that goes to GL and the story and scriptwriting group. Mostly GL himself.

The actors were getting what they thought was a dream job. I am sure Hayden thought he would be the next Ford.

After the way the ?fans? treated the new cast. I do not know how any actor could possible want to do the next series of films without a huge dump truck of money.

The Streaming shows, combined with the end of the Skywalker take may dampen the trolls a bit.....but maybe not. People are already slathering at the mouth over just the titles of the new shows, ready to rip them apart in the name of a YouTube subscriber or just to be counter culture.

Poor Ahmad Best.

The PT I was in my 20?s , sarcasm, defiance and cynicism were my bread and butter. So forgiving for the childish tone of them I was NOT! I have learned my distaste for the PT was more about my age and not understanding these were initially films for kids than anything else.

By the time the ST rolled around, I learned to find joy in just about anything I could in life. I learned to relax and enjoy a film for what it was....not some religion or identity tent pole, but 2 hours of fun in a Universe I loved to see.


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[The Buffinator]

Haha thanks for your reply, I think I was partially getting carried away with the anti ST and #lovethePT tropes I was digging into there - however, in honesty I do like Hayden and his performance in the PT. The reason is partly because I was too into Star Wars and young enough not to analyse the movies with a discerning eye when I first saw the PT. I never thought the acting was bad or the dialogue poor until much later (I did not know about the backlash against the movies) and by then they were already cemented into my childhood. I like the Anakin character in the PT era (movies but even more so in the EU books, I read all of them at the time and find it difficult to disassociate them in my mind from only the onscreen performance now). I watched all the behind the scenes interviews and Hayden who was just a kid himself at the time and he loved the movies and was super excited to be in them and I could totally relate. As an aside, George said he chose Hayden partly because he gave off a James Dean like charm which he thought would be good for the character (and this really comes across in the behind the scenes footage on AOTC) but then ironically George did not really direct him in that way at all haha.

Later I realised the tremendous backlash and hate directly largely at both Hayden and Ahmed Best (there were other casualties too) and it really annoys me that they were targeted in that way. Both their acting careers tanked and Ahmed went to a pretty dark place because of it (I have to imagine it affected Hayden too). As a result I am probably more defensive towards Hayden / Anakin and Ahmed / Jar Jar than perhaps their performances deserve. It makes me happy to see Hayden coming back to the Star Wars convention circuit and now return to play Anakin (I would like to see Ahmed return to Jar Jar too). I hope that he and Ahmed can now see that so many kids from that time did enjoy their performances and the characters they helped bring to the Star Wars universe, that they are appreciated.

I hope that the same will prove true for the ST actors as well - some of them received abuse that was not their fault and now no longer want to play Star Wars, they were doing as directed. Sure I don't enjoy the narrative (story) of those movies but I can appreciate that they did their best. My dislike is directed only towards the decision makers responsible for the onscreen results. KK (a very talented producer) and Rian (a good director) don't come across as fans of the universe and as a result didn't treat it or the built in fanbase with the respect that I feel they ought to have done when playing in that sand pit. JJ loves the OT (I can see that) and he was annoyed that Rian stamped down on his plot lines but his reaction to that pretty much terminated any chance of a cohesive series of movies. TFA and TLJ (whilst I'm not a fan) do flow together but TROS is so jarring as a follow up to TLJ.

Maybe one day if the spin off shows can remain near to Mando quality and continue to weave into the ST then I might just accept them.

So it was a typo.

 

[Khev]

Maybe one day if the spin off shows can remain near to Mando quality and continue to weave into the ST then I might just accept them.

I think I'm living proof that anyone can change their tune if a new show commits a grave sin but executes it awesomely, lol. I originally said that as much as I loved Mando if there was even one whiff of Temuera Morrison (thus tying Mando to both AOTC and ESB SE) that I'd be out and well look where we are now, lol. Redeemed Fett was dealbreaker #2 that I'm probably gonna end up letting go of as well, lol (though I still *really* hope I won't have to...) Hell I think original dealbreaker #1 was if Mando himself *wasn't* Fett, see how well I stick to my guns?

I also thought that making movies about the opening scroll of ANH and young Han Solo was the height of stupidity and would only taint those events/characters.

So yeah I've more than learned to have an open mind about this stuff. I wager that some of you "never STers" might find yourself in a similar situation much sooner than you expect.

 

[Khev]

So much of the fandom is dictated by 2 things.

1. The age a fan saw each trilogy.
2. The unfettered desire of some?fans? to instantly jump on anything even minor to express their hatred toward the franchise they claim to love.

I don?t like most of the PT but the onus of that goes to GL and the story and scriptwriting group. Mostly GL himself.

The actors were getting what they thought was a dream job. I am sure Hayden thought he would be the next Ford.

After the way the ?fans? treated the new cast. I do not know how any actor could possible want to do the next series of films without a huge dump truck of money.

The Streaming shows, combined with the end of the Skywalker take may dampen the trolls a bit.....but maybe not. People are already slathering at the mouth over just the titles of the new shows, ready to rip them apart in the name of a YouTube subscriber or just to be counter culture.

Poor Ahmad Best.

The PT I was in my 20?s , sarcasm, defiance and cynicism were my bread and butter. So forgiving for the childish tone of them I was NOT! I have learned my distaste for the PT was more about my age and not understanding these were initially films for kids than anything else.

By the time the ST rolled around, I learned to find joy in just about anything I could in life. I learned to relax and enjoy a film for what it was....not some religion or identity tent pole, but 2 hours of fun in a Universe I loved to see.

Great post!

 

[Sassafras]

Later I realised the tremendous backlash and hate directly largely at both Hayden and Ahmed Best (there were other casualties too) and it really annoys me that they were targeted in that way. Both their acting careers tanked and Ahmed went to a pretty dark place because of it (I have to imagine it affected Hayden too). As a result I am probably more defensive towards Hayden / Anakin and Ahmed / Jar Jar than perhaps their performances deserve. It makes me happy to see Hayden coming back to the Star Wars convention circuit and now return to play Anakin (I would like to see Ahmed return to Jar Jar too). I hope that he and Ahmed can now see that so many kids from that time did enjoy their performances and the characters they helped bring to the Star Wars universe, that they are appreciated.

I hope that the same will prove true for the ST actors as well - some of them received abuse that was not their fault and now no longer want to play Star Wars, they were doing as directed. Sure I don't enjoy the narrative (story) of those movies but I can appreciate that they did their best. My dislike is directed only towards the decision makers responsible for the onscreen results. KK (a very talented producer) and Rian (a good director) don't come across as fans of the universe and as a result didn't treat it or the built in fanbase with the respect that I feel they ought to have done when playing in that sand pit. JJ loves the OT (I can see that) and he was annoyed that Rian stamped down on his plot lines but his reaction to that pretty much terminated any chance of a cohesive series of movies. TFA and TLJ (whilst I'm not a fan) do flow together but TROS is so jarring as a follow up to TLJ.

Maybe one day if the spin off shows can remain near to Mando quality and continue to weave into the ST then I might just accept them.

It's been interesting being a new-ish SW fan. Or maybe more of an SW fan than I was, 'coz who ISN'T an SW fan. SW changed the world.

If all the films had been like Rogue One (except everyone bites the dust) or like Mando, maybe I'd have been frothing over some stuff too. On the flip side - it's been really fascinating backtracking. Reading all the opinions and history.

So, aside however already hardcore SW fans may have felt about the ST, since I think of myself as viewing TFA as someone with fresh, fairly uncritical eyes - it's always gonna *&^% me off that TFA started really well. Lots of inoffensive rehash, but the sheer POTENTIAL of the introduced characters, and the actors behind them. Rey, Snoke, Finn, Poe, Kylo, even Hux. The hate/hate that could have been played on between Kylo and Hux. What a waste. And IMO that's just one example. Phasma another. Finn another. Snoke (Andy Serkis for *&&% sake)

So some of Yoda's lines from ESB are so good I can see the scenes in my head, or Luke staring off into the twin suns that folks keep trying to copy....

Anyway, the fate of the ST had nothing to do with the actors. It was a failure of scripts, vision, pacing, editing, directing.

 

[ironwez20]

You spelled PT wrong in the first sentence.



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The PT is now loved while the ST is hated. Facts. Like it or not. I know all 4 of you hate that but the PT is now held as Great while ST is forgotten. The internet welcomes Hayden back with open arms when they use to bash him. Funny.

PT sells

 

[ironwez20]

It's been interesting being a new-ish SW fan. Or maybe more of an SW fan than I was, 'coz who ISN'T an SW fan. SW changed the world.

If all the films had been like Rogue One (except everyone bites the dust) or like Mando, maybe I'd have been frothing over some stuff too. On the flip side - it's been really fascinating backtracking. Reading all the opinions and history.

So, aside however already hardcore SW fans may have felt about the ST, since I think of myself as viewing TFA as someone with fresh, fairly uncritical eyes - it's always gonna *&^% me off that TFA started really well. Lots of inoffensive rehash, but the sheer POTENTIAL of the introduced characters, and the actors behind them. Rey, Snoke, Finn, Poe, Kylo, even Hux. The hate/hate that could have been played on between Kylo and Hux. What a waste. And IMO that's just one example. Phasma another. Finn another. Snoke (Andy Serkis for *&&% sake)

So some of Yoda's lines from ESB are so good I can see the scenes in my head, or Luke staring off into the twin suns that folks keep trying to copy....

Anyway, the fate of the ST had nothing to do with the actors. It was a failure of scripts, vision, pacing, editing, directing.

Pretty much. it's not the actors fault. It is the fault of the horrible decisions. I can't see how anyone can sit back and say the Pt is worse when the ST has some of the worst wrting and character development i've ever witnessed. The Pt is bad yes but still can be enjoyed but damn the St is just downright awful

 

[ZE_501]

Pretty much. it's not the actors fault. It is the fault of the horrible decisions. I can't see how anyone can sit back and say the Pt is worse when the ST has some of the worst wrting and character development i've ever witnessed. The Pt is bad yes but still can be enjoyed but damn the St is just downright awful

They're ... different kinds of bad.

The PT was very badly flawed, the ST has no heart.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]So yeah I've more than learned to have an open mind about this stuff. I wager that some of you "never STers" might find yourself in a similar situation much sooner than you expect.

You'll lose that wager.

It's not a question of being 'open-minded'. I disagree with the entire premise of the ST, it's not just a matter of execution. The films are often very beautiful and that Falcon chase on Jakku was one of my favourite scenes in any SW film.

In spite of having grave reservations about the re-hash and treatment of Han in TFA, I went in *wanting* to love these films. I was willing to roll with it. My mind *was* open.

And now we are eternally at odds because you are always most exceptionally definitely wrong.

Hey...has anyone noticed? Khev and I are technically on the same team but disagree about almost everything? Look at our avatars.

Life imitates art with meta-nerdery!

 

[The Buffinator]

The PT is now loved while the ST is hated. Facts. Like it or not. I know all 4 of you hate that but the PT is now held as Great while ST is forgotten. The internet welcomes Hayden back with open arms when they use to bash him. Funny.

PT sells

Actually, when it comes to the PT I think it's a generational thing. I know no one (and I mean, NO ONE) who is my age or anywhere near who loves the PT and thinks it's great. Sure, there are some things to admire in them but on the whole we don't find them to be particularly good films. Most of us, truth be told, would have preferred that Episodes 7-9 were released in that time frame so we could have seen the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han's story before the actors reached their dotage and/or died. Alas, that didn't happen. You, on the other hand, were much younger when you experienced the PT and looked at them through an entirely different lens. Your thinking the PT was great is fine, but you're delusional if you think that others' opinions of them has been swayed by the announcements that Disney has made in the past week.

 

[jye4ever]

Now that HC is back hopefully the National Film Registry will open their eyes and finally nominate AOTC to be recognized and historically preserved because the Lawrence of Arabia of the SW franchise deserves nothing less.

 

[The Buffinator]

Now that HC is back hopefully the National Film Registry will open their eyes and finally nominate AOTC to be recognized and historically preserved because the Lawrence of Arabia of the SW franchise deserves nothing less.

Well, it does have a lot of sand...

 

[ironwez20]

Actually, when it comes to the PT I think it's a generational thing. I know no one (and I mean, NO ONE) who is my age or anywhere near who loves the PT and thinks it's great. Sure, there are some things to admire in them but on the whole we don't find them to be particularly good films. Most of us, truth be told, would have preferred that Episodes 7-9 were released in that time frame so we could have seen the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han's story before the actors reached their dotage and/or died. Alas, that didn't happen. You, on the other hand, were much younger when you experienced the PT and looked at them through an entirely different lens. Your thinking the PT was great is fine, but you're delusional if you think that others' opinions of them has been swayed by the announcements that Disney has made in the past week.

Don?t know bout that one chief. HC was trending when the announcements were made and people seem overly positive. So I guess they have changed a bit. People see them as bad but good movies. And of course u can?t find anyone your age that likes them. You OT fans don?t like change and think the OT is all that matters. I mean it?s cool but the lore is bigger now.

The delusional ones are those that think peoole hate them now still when most of the content out now is pretty much PT centric. Ashoka for example got everyone talking . So again it?s these old 70 yr old fans who think the PT still sucks

 

[The Buffinator]

Don?t know bout that one chief. HC was trending when the announcements were made and people seem overly positive. So I guess they have changed a bit. People see them as bad but good movies. And of course u can?t find anyone your age that likes them. You OT fans don?t like change and think the OT is all that matters. I mean it?s cool but the lore is bigger now.

The delusional ones are those that think peoole hate them now still when most of the content out now is pretty much PT centric. Ashoka for example got everyone talking . So again it?s these old 70 yr old fans who think the PT still sucks

Well, PT centric and the PT are entirely different things. TCW (which I thoroughly enjoyed) was set during the PT and it fleshed out that era of Star Wars. It provided (a) depth to the characters of Anakin and Padme, (b) a believable friendship between Anakin & Obi-Wan, and (c) exciting new characters like Ahsoka & Assajj Ventress - all things that IMO Lucas failed to deliver with the PT movie trilogy.

So hey, thanks for bringing up Ahsoka and helping make my point (the PT failures) while subverting your own (an OT fan like me not liking change).

 

[DarkChocobi]

Actually, when it comes to the PT I think it's a generational thing. I know no one (and I mean, NO ONE) who is my age or anywhere near who loves the PT and thinks it's great. Sure, there are some things to admire in them but on the whole we don't find them to be particularly good films. Most of us, truth be told, would have preferred that Episodes 7-9 were released in that time frame so we could have seen the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han's story before the actors reached their dotage and/or died. Alas, that didn't happen. You, on the other hand, were much younger when you experienced the PT and looked at them through an entirely different lens. Your thinking the PT was great is fine, but you're delusional if you think that others' opinions of them has been swayed by the announcements that Disney has made in the past week.

I completely share the same sentiment with you about that's a generational thing.

McGregor acknowledged that the prequel trilogy movies weren't "much liked when they came out," but the actor shared that he is "really aware" of what those films meant to the "children of that time." The Revenge of the Sith actor also mentioned that he "met people who, they mean a lot to them, those films, more so than the original three:"

?You know, our films weren't much liked when they came out, by my generation who loved the first ones. I think people of our generation wanted to feel the way they'd felt when they saw those first three movies when they were kids, and George [Lucas] wanted to take our ones in a different direction, he had a different idea. It was tricky at the time, I remember. But now, all these years later, I'm really aware of what our films meant to the generation they were made for, the children of that time. They really like them. I've met people who, they mean a lot to them, those films, more so than the original three, and I'm like, 'Are you kidding?'?

https://thedirect.com/article/star-...-for-obi-wan-kenobi-show-than-2-prequel-films

 

[xipotec]

Actually, when it comes to the PT I think it's a generational thing. I know no one (and I mean, NO ONE) who is my age or anywhere near who loves the PT and thinks it's great. Sure, there are some things to admire in them but on the whole we don't find them to be particularly good films. Most of us, truth be told, would have preferred that Episodes 7-9 were released in that time frame so we could have seen the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han's story before the actors reached their dotage and/or died. Alas, that didn't happen. You, on the other hand, were much younger when you experienced the PT and looked at them through an entirely different lens. Your thinking the PT was great is fine, but you're delusional if you think that others' opinions of them has been swayed by the announcements that Disney has made in the past week.

Yes this.

PT is loved by only a certain generation in general. The original OT fans , for the most part do not like it at all. IMO

ST . Interestingly enough, seems to split that , with OT fans who like it, PT fans who like it , and new fans who like it.

Of course, the opposite is true as well.


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[a-dev]

The Pt is bad yes

I still don't think you believe that. Every other word you type - and your inability to ignore any jab at the PT by Khev or Jye - suggests otherwise. I think you only say it out of some needless need to maintain credibility with the original fans.

Why not just admit it. You think they're great films, as good as the original trilogy. I would disagree with you but so what. Because you're right about one thing - the PT did find their audience and will continue to do so, meanwhile the older fans will have less and less sway and will eventually die off altogether.

The thing that the current generation of PT fans are a bit naive about is that you seem to think your own position about the ST is above reproach and that history will not repeat itself. But Star Wars will always be watched. There will always be new kids who grow up not with just 3 saga films, not with just 6 saga films but with 9 of them and they will largely accept what they are presented with.

 

[ironwez20]

Well, PT centric and the PT are entirely different things. TCW (which I thoroughly enjoyed) was set during the PT and it fleshed out that era of Star Wars. It provided (a) depth to the characters of Anakin and Padme, (b) a believable friendship between Anakin & Obi-Wan, and (c) exciting new characters like Ahsoka & Assajj Ventress - all things that IMO Lucas failed to deliver with the PT movie trilogy.

So hey, thanks for bringing up Ahsoka and helping make my point (the PT failures) while subverting your own (an OT fan like me not liking change).

Nah I didn?t make ur point . You said the PT was t loved. Ashoka was actually hated just like anakin to once upon a time ago and she gained respect. It is a generational thing but again they improved over time cause of the clone wars and also rots. So it seems like hardcore OT fans hated it. And no PT centric and PT are t entirely different things. It exist in the same era and people could of not watch anything from it but over time people accepted it.