Justice League Movie (Nov 17th, 2017)

[DiFabio]

Wait, November?

Why don't they do summer releases anymore.

 

[GasparZizou]

Wait, November?

Why don't they do summer releases anymore.

Gotta go around Marvel.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Oh so there's place for doubt after all...

I've been saying that the urban legend idea only works in the beginning...but once it becomes clear that Batman has a specific purpose and he works alongside Gordon, who uses a light with his logo, he no longer is an urban legend, he's a well known vigilante that works with the system and has a clear objective, to fight crime. The 20 years of fighting crime and being an urban legend is just dumb, and clearly not well thought out, just another random idea they borrowed from Frank Miller, except in his story it made sense...because he was actually gone, nor actively fighting.

 

[Uncle Bingo]

The trailer was even worse than I was expecting, and I was expecting complete garbage.

 

[GasparZizou]

I've been saying that the urban legend idea only works in the beginning...but once it becomes clear that Batman has a specific purpose and he works alongside Gordon, who uses a light with his logo, he no longer is ab urban legend, he's a well known vigilante that works with the system and has a clear objective, to fight crime.

20 years worth of questionable sightings and a light are going to bring this into the realm of fact for all people?

Because you're going as far as to imply his personal relationship with Gordon is common public knowledge.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

20 years worth of questionable sightings and a light are going to bring this into the realm of fact for all people?

Because you're going as far as to imply his personal relationship with Gordon is common public knowledge.

When light in the skies comes from Gordon's building and he is a Commissioner, hundreds (maybe more) of criminals go to jail because of the Batman, he can't be an urban legend...seriously...I know you like defending the film, but this is just silly.

In all the films, cartoons, and I'm pretty sure in the original comic continuity, Batman was not an urban legend once he forms an "alliance" with the Commissioner to stop crime and high profile criminals. The very idea that after 20 years of crime fighting people question his existence when you have hundreds (maybe more) of criminals going to jail because of a guy dressed like a bat, makes no sense. If it was 2 years, no light in the sky coming from the Commissioner's building, and just some street thugs showing up beat up by something they couldn't see...sure, that's an urban legend. 20 years, no way.

 

[GasparZizou]

When light in the skies comes from Gordon's building, hundreds of criminals go to jail because of Batman,he can't be an urban legend...seriously...I know you like defending the film, but this is just silly.

You're the one forcing yourself into it doesn't work territory again.

And I'm sure Batman would walk into the front door and fill all the paperwork when he delivers a criminal, instead of just tying them down on location for the cops to find, like in... Oh right, BvS.

Wait, I like defending the film? I let people say stupid **** 24/7

In all the films, cartoons, and I'm pretty sure in the original comic continuity, Batman was not an urban legend once he forms an "alliance" with the Commissioner to stop crime and high profile criminals. The very idea that after 20 years of crime fighting people question his existence when you have hundreds (maybe more) of criminals going to jail because of a guy dressed like a bat, makes no sense. If it was 2 years, no light in the sky coming from the Commissioner's building, and just some street thugs showing up beat up by something they couldn't see...sure, that's an urban legend. 20 years, no way.

So, it's not ok for stuff to be established in examples of my choice but it's ok to do so in examples of your choice?

For someone who needs movies to establish stuff because lack of exposition is unacceptable, you're making a whole lot of assumptions that go against what the movie tells you.

So far you're doing a great job explaining why some questionable sightings by civilians and some people in the GCPD knowing about Batman because of his busts would make Batman a complete certainty for everybody.

 

[pturtle]

The WW trailer was sooooo much better. I still think she should be able to fly, but the action looks good, and Godot seems like she's good in the role.

I don't get why Cyborg said to Batman that he didn't think he was real? He's been in Gotham for 20 years...and Gotham is 10 away from Metropolis, and there is even Batman merchandise that the Joker and his guys wear.

I guess it was, but that's because it was a complete trailer of a movie that's completely wrapped filming. I didn't like the Wonder Woman trailer at all though, that Justice League trailer at least had drinking Aquamomoa

I have a chupacabra t-shirt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[batfan08]

I always kind of viewed Batman as the Jersey Devil. Some people in Gotham believe in him, some people in Gotham don't, and, to the rest of the world, nobody really gives a flying **** outside of conspiracy theorists and hobbyists. So, in that regard, I think the Batman as an urban legend thing works. I kind of view it in the sense that he's almost like a tourist attraction. Street vendors selling "I saw Batman" T-Shirts and Baseball caps. Shaky YouTube videos, stuff like that. Hell, there would probably even be people in Gotham who thought that Gordon shining the light was just a dude taking advantage of the climate of fear and paranoia to keep criminals in check; a hoax, effectively.

Not to mention witness reliability. Most of the hardcore guys probably wouldn't say two words, so as not to incriminate themselves, and the junkies; who would believe them? So, effectively, your only proof is a flashlight in the sky, rumors swirling in a community that most people try their damnedest to avoid, and shaky YouTube videos or whatever there are.

The big thing for me is, how do arrests work in Gotham? If Batman knocks a guy's teeth out, ties him up, and leaves a note saying "this guy tried to rape somebody," is that admissible? I'm sure testimony from the potential victims would work, but how many of them stick around? Most of the time, it seems like the second Batman shows up, they take off running. Does he track down the victims and make sure they come forward? Is the GCPD under Gordon just a different kind of corrupt, with officers falsifying arrest reports to make The Batman's busts stick? These are all things that run through my mind. Dammit.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You're the one forcing yourself into it doesn't work territory again.

And I'm sure Batman would walk into the front door and fill all the paperwork when he delivers a criminal, instead of just tying them down on location for the cops to find, like in... Oh right, BvS.

Wait, I like defending the film? I let people say stupid **** 24/7

Yes, because in most of the 75 year history that Batman was not an urban legend and he worked alongside the police and Gordon he was filling papework...so that people knew he was real.

That's kind of the whole purpose of the Batsignal...to let everyone know...Especially criminals ...he's out there, that way he doest have to tell every criminal to tell their friends he's real...oh wait..he did..in Batnan 89...before the batsignal...when he was an urban legend

For someone who needs movies to establish stuff because lack of exposition is unacceptable, you're making a whole lot of assumptions that go against what the movie

I'm not making that many assumptions actually. Also, it's not just a movie, it's a cinematic universe. We known the bat signal exists and that it's used to call Batman, we know Gordon and high profile criminals exist thanks to some upcoming films, and we know how long Batman has been fighting crime, so based on the current information, it's not just baseless assuptions. Not to mention Batman has never been an urban legend after 20 years of crime fighting...because that would be dumb.

For someone who doesn't like spoon feeding, you sure eat Snyder's bull crap...just because the films says so.

But hey, if you really think it makes sense, then fine, it works for you. :

 

[GasparZizou]

Yes, because in most of the 75 year history that Batman was not an urban legend and he worked alongside the police and Gordon he was filling paper..so that people knew he was real.

It's almost like they're different versions! and like, you're saying, the GCPD doesn't have actual records on Batman?

That's kind of the whole purpose of the Batsignal...to let everyone know...Especially criminals ...he's out there, that way he doest have to tell every criminal to tell their friends he's real...oh wait..he did..in Batnan 89...before the signal...when he was an urban legend

So you're saying it's not just a tool to scare crooks?

You're saying that in Batman 89 there weren't any criminals that didn't believe he existed??? Well this is news to me!

I'm not making that many assumptions actually. Also, it's not just a movie, it's a cinematic universe. We known the bat signal exists and that it's used to call Batman, we know Gordon and high profile criminals exist thanks to some upcoming films, and we know how long Batman has been fighting crime, so based on the current information, it's not just an baseless assuption. Not to mention Batman has never been an urban legend after 20 years of crime fighting...because that would be dumb.

Not that many, only about how every single one of those elements works and the knowledge people has about them.

Again, great job explaining how any of that makes Batman a matter of fact for everyone... You've completely eliminated the superstition around Batman. Cyborg disbelief is now unjustified!

Sure it's dumb, you've very clearly explained why

For someone who doesn't like spoon feeding, you sure eat Snyder's bull crap...just because the films says so.

Yeah... It's not like, he showed it in the movie or anything... I guess you're just having a taste of your own medicine then?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It's almost like they're different versions! and like, you're saying, the GCPD doesn't have actual records on Batman?


So you're saying it's not just a tool to scare crooks?

You're saying that in Batman 89 there weren't any criminals that didn't believe he existed??? Well this is news to me!


Not that many, only about how every single one of those elements works and the knowledge people has about them.

Again, great job explaining how any of that makes Batman a matter of fact for everyone... You've completely eliminated the superstition around Batman. Cyborg disbelief is now unjustified!

Sure it's dumb, you've very clearly explained why


Yeah... It's not like, he showed it in the movie or anything... I guess you're just having a taste of your own medicine then?

The batsignal...a tool? You don't say? Maybe the real police should start using a random spot light with the picture of a frog..or a turkey...I'm sure criminals will be afraid...when nothing shows up...for 20 years

Yes, they are different versions. This version was poorly written. 20 years and he's only an urban legend...it makes his whole career meaningless and Batman even more pathetic than Hackeye, no wonder he's so angry...but hey, at least he "saved his mama" after 20 years of dead Robins and "urban legends" of freaks dressed like clowns.

Those elements you mentioned, have always work in a similar way, so assuming that established elements of the batman lore work similarly in this universe isn't really a stretch.

You can try to make sense of it out of blind fandom...or whatever voodoo magic spell Snyder used on you to stop using your common sense...but, nothing you say will change my mind. You should know that by now...and it hasn't even been 20 years...yet

 

[DiFabio]

As long as Batman doesn't attend public charity gala events with the local law enforcement,





and doesn't fight alongside the police in broad daylight, getting ****ing tribute statues in his honor,






I don't give a **** what the public perception is of Batman.



BvS Batman so far is perfect in that regard. He's still a feared vigilante. Those two GCPD knew who he was despite never running into him, but those asian trafficking girls thought he was a demon. Some respect Batman, some hate him, some like in Metropolis don't give a ****. He's not an urban legend but he's not a personality icon either.

Perfect. That way they can approach him from any angle.

 

[GasparZizou]

The batsignal...a tool? You don't say? Maybe the real police should start using a random spot light with the picture of a frog..or a turkey...I'm sure criminals will be afraid...when nothing shows up...for 20 years

Yeah that one flew right past you, didn't it?

Yes, they are different versions. This version was poorly written. 20 years and he's only an urban legend...it makes his whole career meaningless and Batman even more pathetic than Hackeye, no wonder he's so angry...but hey, at least he "saved his mama" after 20 years of dead Robins and urban legends of freaks dressed like clowns.

Going Kamikaze when everything fails huh?

Those elements you mentioned, have always work in a similar way, so assuming that established elements of the batman lore work similarly in this universe isn't really a stretch.

Yeah, not like this Batman kills or anything...

You can try to make sense of it out of blind fandom...or whatever voodoo magic spell Snyder used on you to stop using your common sense...but, nothing you say will change my mind.

Common sense? After your own arguments contradict yourself? Last time I try to knock some sense into you.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

As long as Batman doesn't attend public charity gala events with the local law enforcement,


View attachment 280456


and doesn't fight alongside the police in broad daylight, getting ****ing tribute statues in his honor,


View attachment 280457



I don't give a **** what the public perception is of Batman.



BvS Batman so far is perfect in that regard. He's still a feared vigilante. Those two GCPD knew who he was despite never running into him, but those asian trafficking girls thought he was a demon. Some respect Batman, some hate him, some like in Metropolis don't give a ****.

Perfect. That way they can approach him from any angle.

I don't see how a statue is different than a batsignal. They have different purposes, but they both acknowledge a Batman.

I like the vigilante Batman...that's cool, but after 20 years? I guess Letoker hasn't done **** . I guess in 20 years there were no major super villains either, except Superman . Even your boy Keaton was not always an urban legend, same goes for BTAS, and they didn't spend 20 years fighting crime

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yeah, not like this Batman kills or anything....

But..most Batmen kill...or have killed You're trying so hard and it's adorable. Snyder would be so proud.

 

[GasparZizou]

But..most Batmen kill...or have killed You're trying so hard and it's adorable. Snyder would be so proud.

Jesus, you pick and choose whatever suits you don't you? Daaaaamn.

You literally said 75 years of history and now you narrowed it down to movie Batmen. Here, so you don't forget it.

Yes, because in most of the 75 year history that Batman was not an urban legend and he worked alongside the police and Gordon he was filling papework...so that people knew he was real.

But since now you narrowed it down to movie Batmen, and I'm sure you missed this when you brought it up, first 2 thugs Batman busts in 89, one of them didn't believe in him... Batsignal and all. I'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize that too though, after all, Bats and Gordon weren't acquainted.

And you're even arguing against an argument I didn't make about Letoker being a myth when in like my 2nd reply to you I explained how diametrically different he is to Batman in that regard, you always do this... You either throw every possible example that you think works in your favor, ignoring mine of course, and then dropping yours when they fail, then changing your tune, then changing my tune to whatever fits you, everything because your argument doesn't really stand on its own.

And you say I'm trying hard

Whatever man, I give up again, you win, you keep letting me down, I keep giving you too much credit

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Jesus, you pick and choose whatever suits you don't you? Daaaaamn.

You literally said 75 years of history and now you narrowed it down to movie Batmen. Here, so you don't forget it.



But since now you narrowed it down to movie Batmen, and I'm sure you missed this when you brought it up, first 2 thugs Batman busts in 89, one of them didn't believe in him... Batsignal and all. I'm sure you'll find a way to rationalize that too though, after all, Bats and Gordon weren't acquainted.

Not just the film batmen..but you mentioned Batfeck killing like it was something unheard of...or different from certain versions that are part of the 75 year history.

The first two thugs in 89 Batman? You mean when the film starts? There was no Batsignal yet. It wasn't until the very end of the film after Batman saves the day that he gives Gordon the Batsignal and Gordon makes a big announcement to the Gotham press that the signal was given to the poilce by Batman to contact him, thus he no longer is an urban legend, which is what he was in the beginning of the film, hence why one of the thugs didn't believe in Bats, and Bats tells him to tell all his friends that he's real.

 

[DiFabio]

I don't see how a statue is different than a batsignal. They have different purposes, but they both acknowledge a Batman.

I like the vigilante Batman...that's cool, but after 20 years? I guess Letoker hasn't done **** . I guess in 20 years there were no major super villains either, except Superman . Even your boy Keaton was not always an urban legend, same goes for BTAS, and they didn't spend 20 years fighting crime

What the . . .

I actually agree with you! But I did edit my post to clarify what I meant, so you probably missed that. I don't think Affleck Batman is an urban legend and I agree with you, I think the Cyborg saying "hurr durr, I didn't think you were real" is lame. You're right about that. Cyborg is basically an idiot. I'm sure there are a lot of those in Gotham.

I'm just saying, as long as Batman doesn't start getting chummy with the cops and Gotham, I don't care how some people perceive him. That's all. A statue in his honor and martyrdom is Superman-tier, not Batman's style. Same goes with that ****ing Botanical garden gala in Batman and Robin where the two of them are standing around like celebrities or something. You know what I mean? I wasn't really fixating on the urban legend thing, just talking about the public perception of Batman.

BvS Batman is fine, though I have my doubts with JK Simmons Gordon. It's gonna be some silly ****. The more movies you have of Batman, the sillier he seems to get. He starts out as this creature of the night (Batman 1989, Batman Begins, Batman v Superman), but then he regresses and starts getting goofy.

The only time that works, for me, is the 60s show where Batman and Robin are badge wearing deputies of the law.





I never want to see that **** again.



And my boy Keaton Batman is the best Batman as far as public perception goes. I think. He keeps to himself, he barely talks, he doesn't let people take pics of him, he stays in the shadows, he doesn't work with the GCPD because they're below him. He starts out as an urban legend, a vigilante that is hated. Public servants and the police try to cover him up and the gangland thinks Batman is some mob enforcer. It's good stuff. Then he gains the city's trust by preventing the Joker chemical attacks and he's like "hey, if you bitches ever need me for important terrorist ****, shine that light in the sky and I'll be there". Then when they do, he shows up, takes care of business, and leaves. No mingling.

I love that scene in Batman Returns where Gordon is trying to shake his hand while thanking him and Batman just disses and ignores him before exiting the scene. Gordon is like "looks like the gang is back in town, thanks for saving the day" or something, and Batman just mutters "we'll see" without even looking or acknowledging him or the mayor. Drafts for Returns actually had a cynical Batman that basically hated the city and the police because of how incompetent they are.

A GCPD/Batman relationship shouldn't be a thing really, because Batman works outside the law and is a criminal (like BvS covers). So unless Gordon wants to be caught for aiding and abetting, he should stay out of ****. The Gordon/Batman relationship in the Nolan movies was good until TDKR. Then **** got weird. It should only be Batman alone, or Batman operating with Gordon in secret. Like I said, it's a progressive thing where Batman starts out as a bad ass but slowly becomes this goofy superhero thing that the public worships. I don't really like Batman being a friend of the cops or people. It makes him look way too vulnerable.

And lets face it, the Snyderverse Batman will eventually go this route too. He's already part of a global super friends team where everyone knows who he is. It's going to get dumb, as the Cyborg exchange and the rumored Gordon roftop scene reports show. It's hard to take Batman seriously on film when he starts being a dude who dresses up in a costume fighting crime to the people in the story. It's inevitable though.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

What the . . .

I actually agree with you! But I did edit my post to clarify what I meant, so you probably missed that. I don't think Affleck Batman is an urban legend and I agree with you, I think the Cyborg saying "hurr durr, I didn't think you were real" is lame. You're right about that. Cyborg is basically an idiot. I'm sure there are a lot of those in Gotham.

I'm just saying, as long as Batman doesn't start getting chummy with the cops and Gotham, I don't care how some people perceive him. That's all. A statue in his honor and martyrdom is Superman-tier, not Batman's style. Same goes with that ****ing Botanical garden gala in Batman and Robin where the two of them are standing around like celebrities or something. You know what I mean? I wasn't really fixating on the urban legend thing, just talking about the public perception of Batman.

BvS Batman is fine, though I have my doubts with JK Simmons Gordon. It's gonna be some silly ****. The more movies you have of Batman, the sillier he seems to get. He starts out as this creature of the night (Batman 1989, Batman Begins, Batman v Superman), but then he regresses and starts getting goofy.

The only time that works, for me, is the 60s show where Batman and Robin are badge wearing deputies of the law.


View attachment 280459


I never want to see that **** again.



And my boy Keaton Batman is the best Batman as far as public perception goes. I think. He keeps to himself, he barely talks, he doesn't let people take pics of him, he stays in the shadows, he doesn't work with the GCPD because they're below him. He starts out as an urban legend, a vigilante that is hated. Public servants and the police try to cover him up and the gangland thinks Batman is some mob enforcer. It's good stuff. Then he gains the cities trust by preventing the Joker chemical attacks and he's like "hey, if you bitches ever need me for important terrorist ****, shine that light in the sky and I'll be there". Then when they do, he shows up, takes care of business, and leaves. No mingling.

I love that scene in Batman Returns where Gordon is trying to shake his hand while thanking him and Batman just disses and ignores him before exiting the scene. Gordon is like "looks like the gang is back in town, thanks for saving the day" or something, and Batman just mutters "we'll see" without even looking or acknowledging him.

A GCPD/Batman relationship shouldn't be a thing really, because Batman works outside the law and is a criminal (like BvS covers). So unless Gordon wants to be caught for aiding and abetting, he should stay out of ****. The Gordon/Batman relationship in the Nolan movies was good until TDKR. Then **** got weird. It should only be Batman alone, or Batman operating with Gordon in secret. Like I said, it's a progressive thing where Batman starts out as a bad ass but slowly becomes this goofy superhero thing that the public worships. I don't really like Batman being a friend of the cops or people. It makes him look way too vulnerable.

And lets face it, the Snyderverse Batman will eventually go this route too. He's already part of a global super friends team where everyone knows who he is. It's going to get dumb, as the Cyborg exchange and the rumored Gordon roftop scene reports show. It's hard to take Batman seriously on film when he starts being a dude who dresses up in a costume fighting crime to the people in the story. It's inevitable though.

Yeah, I agree :

Keaton was channeling his inner Clint Eastwood. As far Rises, I give their relationship a pass because it's the last film...the end of the story, Bruce is broke, no Alfred, the city has gone to hell, there's a guy on steroids that wants to kill him and there's an atomic bomb...so he's like **** it, I'm tagging the bridge and going full gangs of NY since we're all probably going to die , even if it's tactically crazy