1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 283 - Star Wars Episode IV: 1/6th scale Obi-Wan Kenobi

[Pixelpiper]

The "haters" haven't gone anywhere. The people who are "realistic" just don't want all the negativity in their lives and some of us just get tired of people blowing smoke up each-other's asses all day about a sub-par figure. The only haters I see here are the people leveling accusations, calling names and putting labels on others who simply don't agree with them about the quality of this product. Liking a product doesn't mean you're not being a hater, so I'll make it clear, the real haters are here in the thread still posting and loving this figure.

Para's photos are, as always excellent on every level, technical and otherwise. However, they clearly show that this figure is not a good likeness to Alec Guinness. They show that the cut-and-sew on this release are weak. The just show that the product is inferior. Great photos of an inferior product don't make a great product.

I've got the best Alec Guinness sculpt to have been mass produced in 1/6 scale - I have the Obi-Wan figure I want. So far I'm interested in possibly upgrading a few parts to elevate it further and looking for some clear tear-down photos of the HT figure.

 

[Darkseed]

The "haters" haven't gone anywhere. The people who are "realistic" just don't want all the negativity in their lives and some of us just get tired of people blowing smoke up each-other's asses all day about a sub-par figure. The only haters I see here are the people leveling accusations, calling names and putting labels on others who simply don't agree with them about the quality of this product. Liking a product doesn't mean you're not being a hater, so I'll make it clear, the real haters are here in the thread still posting and loving this figure.

Para's photos are, as always excellent on every level, technical and otherwise. However, they clearly show that this figure is not a good likeness to Alec Guinness. They show that the cut-and-sew on this release are weak. The just show that the product is inferior. Great photos of an inferior product don't make a great product.

I've got the best Alec Guinness sculpt to have been mass produced in 1/6 scale - I have the Obi-Wan figure I want. So far I'm interested in possibly upgrading a few parts to elevate it further and looking for some clear tear-down photos of the HT figure.

To be fair, I am not hatin nor blowin anything up someones unmentionable region. I tend not to agree with you on which figure represents the best option for my buck. If that is considered hatin, then I am doing it all day long

The problem is unlike many figs from large franchises old Kenobi has pretty limited options, SS or HT....Unfortunately many people tend to be very territorial on which side of the fence their on. I am uncertain why feathers get ruffled preferring one version over the other but it creates interesting reading

I can hardly wait until HT releases Vader.......epic battles over which is better.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Reading the thread the past few days, it does seem apparent to me that some collectors are desperate to be swayed by well taken 'in hand' pics. They're great shots but I absolutely don't see any more Guinness in them than from the pictures of either prototype. Still on the fence about whether I'll just grab this as the best Old Ben readily available, though. If they'd nailed the likeness, it'd have been a definite buy but as-is and with so much product coming out, I'll likely need a good discount to justify the purchase.

 

[Pixelpiper]

The problem is unlike many figs from large franchises old Kenobi has pretty limited options, SS or HT....Unfortunately many people tend to be very territorial on which side of the fence their on.

I hadn't planned on having a Kenobi in my collection at all until after HT had showed their version off. I had been trying to come up with a suitable display option for R2 and my eventual 3PO, then started considering Kenobi along with the eventual Farmboy Luke (which hadn't been announced yet) to pose with the droids. Sealed my decision with the idea of doing a Ben's house display. But it didn't matter how long I looked at HT's effort, I was really put off by the head sculpt - at the time I hadn't even considered they'd mess up the clothing, so I thought I might buy him and hope for a custom head sculpt.

Soon after I started looking at repainted Sideshow Kenobi heads and what a great effort they were. So I looked for a long time for a loose head sculpt that I could have someone paint. I've yet to see one come up. So I thought I'd try to grab a low-priced figure and just get rid of everything but the head sculpt so that I could use the HT parts. Well prices on the SSC figure didn't go down, they were staying steady for the most part, even climbing a bit. I missed out on a few 100-150 auctions for various reasons, then one day I chanced upon one that already had the head repainted - it was missing a couple of hands and was loose, but I couldn't beat the value after factoring in the price of a custom paint job. Boom, picked it up. Put the parts on a spare body I had here and that's all she wrote.

Had I not done that, had SSC never released a Kenobi, nothing about the HT would change. It is what it is. Some stranger in robes that have poor cut and sew and look to be made from positively the incorrect materials. A sub-par release by any measure - certainly by the measure of many other of HT's own products. I have HT products with great head sculpts, with great clothing and with great accessories. This doesn't hold a candle to any of them in any respect.

I have never in my life justified anything I've ever purchased for any reason and have never made anything out to be more than it was to make myself or anyone else feel better about it. If I spend any amount of money on something and it's underwhelming, I have no problem talking about it. $1500 Napolean barbeque? Piece of crap, not worth the premium price. $400 Tama C-3PO? Overrated and ridiculously overpriced, but a decent figure at $200-250. Kept the Tama, dumped the Napoleon after suffering with it for 5 years.

 

[Eamon]

Regardless of dead on likeness or not, there's just a quality to Hot Toys that I find is far higher than any other company at the moment. I think this Obi Wan is the nuts and yes I can see its not dead on but the over all feel and quality is what I live most.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Regardless of dead on likeness or not, there's just a quality to Hot Toys that I find is far higher than any other company at the moment.

I collect from a lot of different companies and I don't feel this is the case at all. HT have hits and misses on all levels, not just likeness. I have a their Trainee Firefighter 2.0 and apart from an abysmal head sculpt and paint, the rest of the figure is excellent with superior production to much of what they've been putting out in the past few years. So, YMMV. Nothing is a sure thing.

 

[Chronos1919]

I collect from a lot of different companies and I don't feel this is the case at all. HT have hits and misses on all levels, not just likeness. I have a their Trainee Firefighter 2.0 and apart from an abysmal head sculpt and paint, the rest of the figure is excellent with superior production to much of what they've been putting out in the past few years. So, YMMV. Nothing is a sure thing.

I've also heard really good things about the Star Ace Harry Potter line and the Threezero/ThreeA Game of Thrones line. Though, admittedly, I don't own any from either of these.

 

[MarfMaster]

I don't think the HT Ben is terrible by any means, but I also prefer my repainted sideshow figure. I do want to upgrade him though with the HT boots, hands and saber.

 

[abake]

As far as overall quality is concerned, I think DiD is easily above HT.
The details and paint apps on their sculpts is simply amazing, and the materials and cut of their gear/clothing is probably better than anything out there.
Unfortunately, they're mostly a WWII company, so a bit of a niche company.

As for this Obi Wan, I do think it misses the mark in likeness.

 

[Eamon]

I collect from a lot of different companies and I don't feel this is the case at all. HT have hits and misses on all levels, not just likeness. I have a their Trainee Firefighter 2.0 and apart from an abysmal head sculpt and paint, the rest of the figure is excellent with superior production to much of what they've been putting out in the past few years. So, YMMV. Nothing is a sure thing.

Do you have another example as I don't know that Firefighter?

 

[Eamon]

Please post a pic of a figure from another figure that you guys feel is better over all quality than Hot Toys. I have figure from the other companies too and while some are excellent, I don't think they are better over all. But I am up to being corrected here.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Do you have another example as I don't know that Firefighter?

Another example in which direction? The Firefighter was an example that they were producing super high-quality products back in 2006, but the head sculpts by today's standards were "meh" (I'd call them "meh" even back in 2006 but certainly better than Hasbro/21st Century).

In one set, the Batman Armory, you have one of the best sculpts HT have ever produced, Alfred, and a suit and coat that are well tailored to the figure. You also have an "ok" sculpt in the form of Bruce Wayne along with a suit that's really no better than Toys City or so many other 1/6 clothing producers. Then you have a Batman figure that I quite like very much, but has all manner of accuracy flaws that people have been pointing out since the very first time they ever made a Dark Knight suit/cowl. Hit and Miss

Spider-Man 3 - awesome looking build on Spidey, decent representation of the on-screen suit. Body is a brittle piece of garbage that breaks at the ankles for almost everyone with weak joints that also easily pull out. The suit doesn't properly cover the sleeves and the head is attached to the suit so that posing the head makes him look like he has no chin. Still my favorite of their Spideys though. Hit and miss.

Iron Man and Tony Stark. Have they made even one suit of armor that screen accurate yet? How about a sculpt that actually resembles RDJ to a T? But they sell like crazy.

The hobby is about hits and misses and everyone has their share. HT may be the top producer in terms of volume and dollars, but they're not any more consistent than anyone else unless you cherry-pick - and very carefully at that.

It's not on-topic to post photos of other figures here. I think both Game of Thrones figures from Threezero are better than most Hot Toys figures. I think SSC's Old Ben is better than the Hot Toys version in this thread, including the robes. Some people will say Sideshow's products suffer most when it comes to heads, but I'll say it's the base bodies. A bad base means potentially poor-fitting costumes and proportions. Love their recent Hoth figures, can't recommend them enough, but the stock bodies have to go to make them shine. They simply don't have the variety that HT does and their basic design isn't what I prefer either - some other companies use bodies similar to HT, such as 3Z/3A and some use other designs that are excellent in their own right, such as Soldier Story (some, not all of their models).

Anyway, I'm sure this Ben Kenobi has a fine base body and the new hands are looking pretty good. I love the detail on the sculpt, I just don't think it has even a passing resemblance to Alec Guinness in features nor coloring. The clothing materials look cheap, inappropriate and poorly cut and sewn. From what I've seen of the boots and belt, they look decent. The lit saber hilt looks like total garbage and the other one looks OK. A poor paint app one can probably deal with. A body swap? Not a big problem. But when everything has a serious issue except the base body and a couple of accessories? Not good. Not good enough and certainly not of a calibre that should ever be compared to any other company.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Another example in which direction? The Firefighter was an example that they were producing super high-quality products back in 2006, but the head sculpts by today's standards were "meh" (I'd call them "meh" even back in 2006 but certainly better than Hasbro/21st Century).

In one set, the Batman Armory, you have one of the best sculpts HT have ever produced, Alfred, and a suit and coat that are well tailored to the figure. You also have an "ok" sculpt in the form of Bruce Wayne along with a suit that's really no better than Toys City or so many other 1/6 clothing producers. Then you have a Batman figure that I quite like very much, but has all manner of accuracy flaws that people have been pointing out since the very first time they ever made a Dark Knight suit/cowl. Hit and Miss

Spider-Man 3 - awesome looking build on Spidey, decent representation of the on-screen suit. Body is a brittle piece of garbage that breaks at the ankles for almost everyone with weak joints that also easily pull out. The suit doesn't properly cover the sleeves and the head is attached to the suit so that posing the head makes him look like he has no chin. Still my favorite of their Spideys though. Hit and miss.

Iron Man and Tony Stark. Have they made even one suit of armor that screen accurate yet? How about a sculpt that actually resembles RDJ to a T? But they sell like crazy.

The hobby is about hits and misses and everyone has their share. HT may be the top producer in terms of volume and dollars, but they're not any more consistent than anyone else unless you cherry-pick - and very carefully at that.

It's not on-topic to post photos of other figures here. I think both Game of Thrones figures from Threezero are better than most Hot Toys figures. I think SSC's Old Ben is better than the Hot Toys version in this thread, including the robes. Some people will say Sideshow's products suffer most when it comes to heads, but I'll say it's the base bodies. A bad base means potentially poor-fitting costumes and proportions. Love their recent Hoth figures, can't recommend them enough, but the stock bodies have to go to make them shine. They simply don't have the variety that HT does and their basic design isn't what I prefer either - some other companies use bodies similar to HT, such as 3Z/3A and some use other designs that are excellent in their own right, such as Soldier Story (some, not all of their models).

Anyway, I'm sure this Ben Kenobi has a fine base body and the new hands are looking pretty good. I love the detail on the sculpt, I just don't think it has even a passing resemblance to Alec Guinness in features nor coloring. The clothing materials look cheap, inappropriate and poorly cut and sewn. From what I've seen of the boots and belt, they look decent. The lit saber hilt looks like total garbage and the other one looks OK. A poor paint app one can probably deal with. A body swap? Not a big problem. But when everything has a serious issue except the base body and a couple of accessories? Not good. Not good enough and certainly not of a calibre that should ever be compared to any other company.

Well said.

 

[Eamon]

I think you make some pretty valid points there. What I would say is that yes the HT 1:6 Wayne head is only ok but the 1:4 on the other hand is some tight likeness I think. Though perhaps it's not fair as you do tend to get better likeness with a larger canvas. Same can be said I guess if the RDJ in 1:6 and 1:4.
It took me two Spider-Man's to get one not with broken ankle.
I do not agree though with you on 3Z/3A being better. I think they are not far behind but still not there. Their hands ere extremely lazy and materials are not as well fitted or as well made. The details on that 3z Robocop are uneven and you just don't see things like that with HT at all. Brittle and questionable likeness yes but even on lazy paint aps like say on Loki 1, the materials more than make up for it. Least I think so always.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Hits and misses and overall. Tailoring on my GoT figures is A-1. I'll call on the rough dwarf hands on Tyrion against any set of generic and unpainted skeleton hands HT has shipped with countless figures.

I'll also say that while I find that other producers and stepping up their game, Hot Toys are at best static, and in some respects (and some examples) falling backwards. The Bat suit in the armory has some small visual improvements due to the pattern on the translucent plastics, but overall I think it's a cost-reduced re-release along with the other figures in the same set - strip them down and compare their bodies to some of the better ones on first gen releases. Look again here to this Obi Wan. Look at the cut and sew from the latest Leia examples - no mention if Leia is a production piece, let's hope not.

But back to the top, hits and misses. I never implied that Hot Toys doesn't produce some stellar work, but this Kenobi is unfortunately not an example of said stellar work.

 

[Darkseed]

Regardless of dead on likeness or not, there's just a quality to Hot Toys that I find is far higher than any other company at the moment. I think this Obi Wan is the nuts and yes I can see its not dead on but the over all feel and quality is what I live most.

I agree somewhat......I prefer HT quality but as mentioned not certain their tops. I collect from various companies as well and as alluded to each has hits n misses. My take, HT for the amount and the complexity of the figs they produce seem to have a pretty solid quality rating which is why I prefer them.

 

[DarthAlias]

I get the whole hating thing because it seems like the same people pick figures apart. To say this is a fail or terrible figure is completely off. Is a bad HT figure? Maybe, in terms of likeness is a fail. Problem is when we've been given amazing sculpts in the past, and now have this sculpt, people will always compare that. Not every HT figure is dead on, but they usually are always a better likeness than any other attempt at that scale. Look at Iminime's Han compared to HT. I think the HT one is better IMO but maybe some will disagree. The problem is HT has set the bar and when some think they're going backwards, they get all crazy and hate. You have to think for what they charge, you'd be lucky to get a custom sculpt and paint for the price of one average HT figure. Think they owe us some dead on 100% mini actor? Nope. They owe us what the money will buy. Take it or leave it. Don't like it, don't buy it. It's that simple. No one is telling to you like it or buy it. I understand criticism but to get it every other post is ridiculous. Like I said in the Chewy thread, make a sculpt and figure yourself and see how it turns out. Then see how much you'd charge to sell it. These are $200+ figures, don't expect perfection by any means. Look at what people will pay for a near perfect 1:6 ledger joker, $thousands. So limit your expectations to value and I see a great value in this figure. For the money, great sculpt, tailoring and accessories. Not a fail by any means.

Also, what some see is a fail others see as a success. Is this a better overall Obi than SS? I think so. Body, boots, robe, accessories, paint apps, much better. Compared to those people who say the inner robe and head is better on SS. So in essence, yes, you're agreeing that the HT is a better figure than SS.

 

[Pixelpiper]

I don't think money has anything to do with it. That's what people mean when they say straw man argument. Likeness is likeness, all day and all night. Most people don't hate, they just get infuriated seeing the same apologetic Hot Toys Kool-Aid BS all day long.

Whether someone picks apart one figure or every figure... Also not relevant. Some people like to be precise, some people want to know every detail about every product. Different strokes for different folks.

I haven't seen anyone telling anyone else not to like something either, so because everyone has different tastes and different desires and expectations of this hobby there's always something for everyone. None of this is relevant to the likeness and material selection being off/wrong. Those issues are absolutely quantifiable. As certain as basic math, you can measure, calculate and prove them. The existence of another product also has no bearing on these measures - it serves only as a possible alternative if someone is so inclined.

Maybe for someone the HT out of box product is the best fit. For someone else maybe Sideshow's. For me, it's going to be kit-bash - and frankly, that's how most of my Han Solo will be made as well, topped with a custom head. Different strokes for different folks. But again, while this is fun to talk about, none of it has any bearing on the "issues."

 

[Darth Lam]

While I agree that money has absolutely nothing to do with likeness, perhaps it's more of a valuation thing. The old Sideshow Obi-Wan Kenobi only cost $59.99, so there wasn't much of an expectation there. However, the Hot Toys version is over $200, so people are looking for a lot more to justify that cost.

 

[TonTon]

To say this is a fail or terrible figure is completely off. Is a bad HT figure? Maybe, in terms of likeness is a fail.

Not sure if you're suggesting this, but I don't think anyone in here has said this figure is terrible or a fail.