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Posted this in the wrong Who forum, so copying it here. A guy proposed that Who failed after Smith left because the huge female audience mostly switched off when they saw this older looking man appear (who did seem older than his 50 odd years too, without wishing to be rude but failing.) Anyway....I said....

I know the majority will know all this stuff but anyway....that's definitely the case for the majority. The 50th anniversary was a sensation in America, shown in cinemas over there rather than just the UK (and all around the world.) Merchandise was flying off the shelves (even Big Chief could flog expensive 1/6 scales quickly.) Displays in shops were gigantic, filled with just about every product one can think of. Dr Who has always had a small fanbase in America but Tennant and Smith, coupled with US Netflix just made the show explode. It was huge, and yes in part because of a whole new set of female fans. So many that at Cons etc it was 50/50 male and female.

One only need look at what happened when Capaldi appeared. It just starting dying quickly. First signs came with licensing for merch which fell off a cliff. Ratings began to fall from rather large to ever disappearing. Some argue it was the stories, but Smith's Series 6 and 7 were messes let's be honest. 6 didn't even make sense, but they remained hits. Capaldi, while he did suffer because Moffat was running out of ideas, one could still argue 8 and 9 were superior to 6 and 7. Stuff like Deep Breath were genius (ok, 10 was **** but the damage was done.) By the end of Capaldi Who was all but dead in America as well as almost every country in the world, and diminished in the UK (with again merch disappearing to nothing at all, even Funko Pops dumped it and they do EVERYONE, I'm expecting a figure of me to be coming out soon.)

Let's not touch too much of Jodie. Her era has brought the show in the States to infinitesimal levels and even further reduced in the UK. I will grant you her stories have been beyond appalling so people switching her off probably did because of that and her performance (plus who actually wanted a female Dr?)

I think we all know now, the secrets out, that the BBC was going to rest the show again, with Jodie regenerating, fading out and left there until any revival. Russell T Davies only stepped in because it was him or no one. Plus he was able to bring in big money from Disney so the show now has a bigger budget per episode than ever before, and that's because he's so well known and trusted as a writer and show runner. And of course he's woke, which Disney is, more than any other of the entertainment companies, so they'll be supporting more progressiveness, although I think RTD is too intelligent to go full on. For a start he's not an anti white racist.

It'll be very interesting to see what happens now, Is RTD going to prove that if you stay around too long you go from hero to villain, or is the show going to have a massive revival and follow the 20 year rule where previously massive shows can come back because of nostalgia. And I'm sure RTD, with such good taste in men, will be making sure there's plenty of eye candy, as well as making spin offs which cater for everyone. I have a feeling he's going to give Tennant a short series with Smith traveling together because he asked on Twitter during Covid why that hadn't happened yet.

Interesting times!
(plus who actually wanted a female Dr?)

It did seem counterintuitive at first, but it now pales in comparison to the whole Timeless Child twist.

I think we all know now, the secrets out, that the BBC was going to rest the show again, with Jodie regenerating, fading out and left there until any revival.

Is that why The Power of the Doctor felt like a finale? Had it already been written?

I always thought they should have done that after Capaldi.
It did seem counterintuitive at first, but it now pales in comparison to the whole Timeless Child twist.

Is that why The Power of the Doctor felt like a finale? Had it already been written?

I always thought they should have done that after Capaldi.

Very true about The Timeless Child. At least we could forget about Jodie's era and move on, but we can't do the same with TTC. It MUST be retconned or I can't see how WHO can ever be the same.

I think The Power Of The Doctor was like it was because it was the BBC's centenary so something special was needed. I think it was written after RTD came back. But it absolutely was going to be the final episode of New Who. The BBC were moments from it. They destroyed it utterly, with it being made by totally inexperienced production in the name of diversity.

Whatever happens with RTD and NeoWHO, it'll at least be interesting and high budget for one season. Time will tell!
What the......! It looks like they're adapting the Meep storyline from Doctor Who weekly! And they've brought the the diamond logo back!
If you haven't read the Meep it's an absolute corker written by Judge Dredd scribe John Wagner and drawn by Dave Gibbons at the height of his powers. They've substituted David Tenant for Tom Baker for obvious reasons, I might have to watch this...... please don't eff it up.
The last few years of nonsense woke & bad storytelling almost destroyed it. Chibnall is a writer and does well at that but should never have been allowed to become show runner. Thanks to his many mistakes made, the show reached its lowest viewership ever. Hopefully the damage is not irreparable as Russell T Davies and Tennant (two men responsible for its highest viewership and best stories) are returning to set things back on course.
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We will see how far things get next year. Hopefully things will go better. I always preferred the more episodic format of old Who, rather than the 'all wrapped up in a bow before the credits' approach of the new. Not everyone has a short attention span you know. Because everything was so short, I never found new Who to be all that memorable. Nothing that quotable except for "Geronimo!" and "Allons y!".
There's still quite a bit of crossover among the stories. "Old Who" seemed pretty "self-contained" to me. In fact, other than the Third Doctor's connections on Earth during exile and Fifth Doctor's "Master" story, I'd argue there's actually *more* callbacks and long running stories within stories in "Next Gen" Who.
What a joke. I'm always on the side of inclusivity and diversity, but it needs to be done well...
  • Davros can no longer be in a "wheelchair" because making villains disfigured and disabled is insensitive now (thanks Disney).
  • The Doctor gets told off for assuming the pronouns of an alien hamster
  • "A male presenting Timelord wouldn't understand"
  • Being trans/non-binary somehow saved the world, aight cool...
What tf is RTD smoking. If you want people to like and accept your trans characters maybe don't make them the equivilent of an "I'm Vegan listen to me!!" person.

Doctor Who for the last half a decade now has focused too much on being a safe space for people rather than an engaging sci-fi show.
Eh I have no problem with the episode lifting up trans people after all the crap they've been put through lately, but the writing was just so simplistic and uninspired. Lots of explosions and frantic running around and cheesy villains, with no depth or complexity whatsoever. And it honestly didn't feel like any kind of upgrade over the Chibnall years.

And while I was initially excited by the return of Tennant, seeing him play the role the exact same way with the exact same Doctor/Donna banter just feels like a completely unnecessary rehash, with no creative purpose beyond RTD wanting to play with his old friends again. And I'd much rather jump ahead and see Gatwa's Doctor and companion at this point.

New TARDIS interior is amazing though, I'll give them that.
It all just smacks of desperation. Bringing back Tennant to try and woo the ever decreasing fanbase back is bad enough. But to have the awful annoying Donna back as well... Have pity!!:giggle:
They are trying to serve 2 masters, the agenda and the fans at the same time.

Fans hate the Alphabet agenda....they have tuned out, and I have never seen the ABC's throw money at pop culture merchandise.

It's doomed. Dr. Who will soon be Dr. What's that? No one will really pass it on to their kids or younger generation.
It was fun. I do like Doctor Who best when it moves forward. This didnt move forward. Hopefully all will be explained. I dont enjoy Tennant’s doctor when he gets shouty. Donna was great. I thought the cracks mending themselves somehow was a bit much.

I loved Jodie’s Police Box and now it has an interior to match it.

All in all. 6/10 for me.
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And to think that RTD would try and save this car crash of a show...Alas no...😞. What an awful episode to celebrate the 60th anniversary. Any more cringey woke writing as seen here and it won't be much longer before the show IS cancelled. Even Tennant can't save this mess. Love the new costume though! And the new Tardis interior looks very nice...But what a waste.

Again, it all looks so desperate, unoriginal and boring... From the unoriginal story (the old comic strip is more enjoyable) to the regurgitated classic 70's logo. Have they no one with a creative mind that can come up with a new logo design??

And the unbearable OTT LOUD DONNAAA! Watching the scene where she's dying in the Dr's arms, suddenly The Master from Caves of Androzani popped into my head screaming...Die Donna!..Die!! muhahahaha :giggle:

Personally i found the new colourised version of The Daleks a more enjoyable watch to celebrate the anniversary. Aside from the poor editing and the new overly intrusive musically score, seeing those beautiful silver and blue Daleks along side the magical William Hartnell brought joyful tears to my eyes🥲
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