Captain America: Civil War (May 6, 2016)

[crows]

]

I'm in the minority who put BvS above CW - mainly because I'm biased towards Bats and Supes as characters, and really like what Snyder did with Battfleck. Plus it overall just felt "grander" than CW (if more disjointed).

(Hrm, maybe I should move this to the "unpopular opinions" thread...)

[

 

[e30ernest]

I'm trying really hard not to compare this to BvS because it will be unfair to BvS. We're dealing with more nuanced characters with more backstory than BvS did.

That said, I disagree with the review a few pages back. I think this movie had the best action sequences of any Marvel movie. A bit excessive on shaky cam (which can make 3D more difficult to watch) but the choreography was top notch. Hard to think fight scenes these good can come out of sitcom directors.

 

[GasparZizou]

Word is, John Wick's director worked on the, or some, action sequences.

Patricianing this hard

 

[Starscream Soundwave]

Just got in from the midnight release. Really enjoyed it. Definitely the most powerfully emotional Marvel film so far. Looking forward to seeing it again.

 

[e30ernest]

I like how you can come into this movie rooting for a "team" and yet come out of it both teams were right and wrong at the same time. RDJ, Chris and Sebastian all pulled their acting chops here and you can see how their characters developed from the past films up to this point.

Like TWS, this movie really changed the landscape for the MCU moving forwards in a good way I think. This is also the film that felt the most "transitory" for me. It's almost like a TV episode where each movie is an extended episode setting up the next. It felt like Empire Strikes Back in how it ended for me.

 

[Prime Clone]

It's almost like a TV episode where each movie is an extended episode setting up the next.

That may be why BvS felt more "epic" to me. As great as CW was, the cinematography was a bit more low-key.

 

[e30ernest]

That may be why BvS felt more "epic" to me. As great as CW was, the cinematography was a bit more low-key.

I prefer the more low-key down to earth presentation of CW. The combat felt more brutal because it looked more tactical than brute force as seen in BvS. Also the camera shots felt more like it came out of Bourne Identity at times which has its pros and cons too.

 

[tylerdurden]

saw civil war last night. a pretty good sequel but stops short of being great, due to a number of fundamental story and character issues. people slag off the motivations for bats & supes coming to blows but in cw the antagonism comes off way more contrived, esp on cap's side. at the climax, there is a much more personal and therefore convincing reason for them to fight, and i feel this should've been brought way upfront and made the catalyst, not the punchline. i also find the movie a bit talky in parts, but thankfully it's not overly draggy. the villain is underdeveloped and underwhelming as is usually the case with marvel, but also somewhat sympathetic and tragic in the end.

some terrific action sequences, great gags, and an excellent spidey. solid performances by evans and stan, and holland is adorable. stark is rather uncharacteristic here, which bothered me initially. downey jr did what he could with the way his role was written, so acting-wise he's fine. overall it's a better avengers sequel than age of ultron, but winter soldier is still the superior film.

avoid 3D at all costs though, it just looks all blurry in that format thanks to the shaky cam and the russos shooting the action up close.

 

[ironwez20]

saw civil war last night. a pretty good sequel but stops short of being great, due to a number of fundamental story and character issues. people slag off the motivations for bats & supes coming to blows but in cw the antagonism comes off way more contrived, esp on cap's side. at the climax, there is a much more personal and therefore convincing reason for them to fight, and i feel this should've been brought way upfront and made the catalyst, not the punchline. i also find the movie a bit talky in parts, but thankfully it's not overly draggy. the villain is underdeveloped and underwhelming as is usually the case with marvel, but also somewhat sympathetic and tragic in the end.

some terrific action sequences, great gags, and an excellent spidey. solid performances by evans and stan, and holland is adorable. stark is rather uncharacteristic here, which bothered me initially. downey jr did what he could with the way his role was written, so acting-wise he's fine. overall it's a better avengers sequel than age of ultron, but winter soldier is still the superior film.

avoid 3D at all costs though, it just looks all blurry in that format thanks to the shaky cam and the russos shooting the action up close.

O so we got a dc fanboy in our midst huh? Cuff him Lou!

 

[tylerdurden]

O so we got a dc fanboy in our midst huh? Cuff him Lou!

don't be silly. just because i am not falling over myself to lay down nothing but praise for cw doesn't mean i am a dc fanboy. it just means i am open enough to see a movie's flaws. cw is not perfect. it's very good, but certainly far from perfect.

 

[ironwez20]

don't be silly. just because i am not falling over myself to lay down nothing but praise for cw doesn't mean i am a dc fanboy. it just means i am open enough to see a movie's flaws. cw is not perfect. it's very good, but certainly far from perfect.

O no I understand.





Cuff him Lou!!!!

 

[tylerdurden]

O no I understand.

Cuff him Lou!!!!

 

[e30ernest]

Hahaha

Well Civil War isn't perfect. When you get a movie with so many characters sometimes details tend to get glossed over.

I do not agree that the initial conflict was contrived.

Spoiler:

The initial conflict was a debate on whether or not they should have overlords to police them. Cap's team says it's just shifting the blame, but Stark thinks it's going to happen eventually so might as well do it now and then find ways around it later. Because Stark now signed the accords, he was now obliged to take Rogers in. Something he did not want to do, hence the airport fight started off half-hearted, but escalated quickly into what Vision predicted would happen: Catastrophe.

I liked how they showed how each was practically holding back, trying to win the fight while minimizing potential casualties. They were fighting while avoiding seriously hurting anyone. Until Vision made his mistake.

The second part was not a battle of ideology, but more of a battle of anger. Captain trying to stop Iron Man without killing him, while Iron Man tried to kill Bucky without killing Cap. Black Panther was a good contrast to this emotional fight, letting his logic and reasoning dictate his final actions as opposed to Stark's frenzy.

I truly felt bad for Stark at the end. He has lost Pepper, he has lost his team, he almost lost Rhodey, and now he is nothing more but a "Yes" man to Ross.

Cap on the other hand got a good ending. He saved Bucky, saved the rest of the Avengers and found a new ally in Wakanda.

In the end, I liked Zemo. It wasn't comic-book Zemo, but I think he was the first real antagonist to win in the MCU. He won. The Avengers are splintered. The world has turned against its heroes. He dealt a very emotional and psychological blow to a team that has won over aliens, defeated Hydra and overcome physically stronger opponents.

I liked how all of these were presented. I felt for the characters and in the end, I couldn't find myself to root for either group, because they were both right and they both had good intentions.

The flaws...

Some stuff were glossed over. Like how did Tony find Peter? Hank was pretty much against working for the Avengers, how did they get Ant Man's suit? How did Team Iron Man know that Rogers would be going to the airport? When did Bucky tell Steve that he killed Stark's parents? What were Stark's parents doing with those packets of super soldier serum? If they were able to replicate the super soldier serum, why didn't SHIELD have that tech? How did Zemo know all those things about Hydra and The Winter Soldier? He did not seem to be affiliated with Hydra at all...

I came out of the theater with a lot of questions, but I do feel that the positives of the movie outweighed the negatives that's why I looked at it positively. I wasn't disappointed at all. It delivered and I'd watch it again in a heartbeat!

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Spoiler:

Remember in Winter Soldier when the gunships targeted all of the specials? Peter Parker's name was on the screen

 

[e30ernest]

Spoiler:

Remember in Winter Soldier when the gunships targeted all of the specials? Peter Parker's name was on the screen

Oh I missed that.

Spoiler:

I did see Stephen Strange there though. You sure Parker's name was there? He was still Sony's property at that time

 

[tylerdurden]

Hahaha

Well Civil War isn't perfect. When you get a movie with so many characters sometimes details tend to get glossed over.

I do not agree that the initial conflict was contrived.

it's contrived because

Spoiler:

cap's reasoning seems to stem from personal accountability and applying his own moral standards onto everyone else. but not everyone else has his impeccable level of moral fibre, so his argument is at best myopic and at worst, oblivious to the realities that there can be/are others who are nowhere as accountable, mindful or heedful of doing the "right thing". even rhodey called him out on it, calling him "arrogant". cap's an exceptionally strategically-minded guy, and for him to not see that, it feels out of character for the cap that's been portrayed on film all this while. and therefore, contrived.

 

[EndoSickness]

Hahaha

Well Civil War isn't perfect. When you get a movie with so many characters sometimes details tend to get glossed over.

I do not agree that the initial conflict was contrived.

Spoiler:

The initial conflict was a debate on whether or not they should have overlords to police them. Cap's team says it's just shifting the blame, but Stark thinks it's going to happen eventually so might as well do it now and then find ways around it later. Because Stark now signed the accords, he was now obliged to take Rogers in. Something he did not want to do, hence the airport fight started off half-hearted, but escalated quickly into what Vision predicted would happen: Catastrophe.

I liked how they showed how each was practically holding back, trying to win the fight while minimizing potential casualties. They were fighting while avoiding seriously hurting anyone. Until Vision made his mistake.

The second part was not a battle of ideology, but more of a battle of anger. Captain trying to stop Iron Man without killing him, while Iron Man tried to kill Bucky without killing Cap. Black Panther was a good contrast to this emotional fight, letting his logic and reasoning dictate his final actions as opposed to Stark's frenzy.

I truly felt bad for Stark at the end. He has lost Pepper, he has lost his team, he almost lost Rhodey, and now he is nothing more but a "Yes" man to Ross.

Cap on the other hand got a good ending. He saved Bucky, saved the rest of the Avengers and found a new ally in Wakanda.

In the end, I liked Zemo. It wasn't comic-book Zemo, but I think he was the first real antagonist to win in the MCU. He won. The Avengers are splintered. The world has turned against its heroes. He dealt a very emotional and psychological blow to a team that has won over aliens, defeated Hydra and overcome physically stronger opponents.

I liked how all of these were presented. I felt for the characters and in the end, I couldn't find myself to root for either group, because they were both right and they both had good intentions.

The flaws...

Some stuff were glossed over. Like how did Tony find Peter? Hank was pretty much against working for the Avengers, how did they get Ant Man's suit? How did Team Iron Man know that Rogers would be going to the airport? When did Bucky tell Steve that he killed Stark's parents? What were Stark's parents doing with those packets of super soldier serum? If they were able to replicate the super soldier serum, why didn't SHIELD have that tech? How did Zemo know all those things about Hydra and The Winter Soldier? He did not seem to be affiliated with Hydra at all...

I came out of the theater with a lot of questions, but I do feel that the positives of the movie outweighed the negatives that's why I looked at it positively. I wasn't disappointed at all. It delivered and I'd watch it again in a heartbeat!

Excuse me, but where

Spoiler:

did Tony lose Pepper down the line?

 

[e30ernest]

it's contrived because

Spoiler:

cap's reasoning seems to stem from personal accountability and applying his own moral standards onto everyone else. but not everyone else has his impeccable level of moral fibre, so his argument is at best myopic and at worst, oblivious to the realities that there can be/are others who are nowhere as accountable, mindful or heedful of doing the "right thing". even rhodey called him out on it, calling him "arrogant". cap's an exceptionally strategically-minded guy, and for him to not see that, it feels out of character for the cap that's been portrayed on film all this while. and therefore, contrived.

Spoiler:

I saw it as his weakness. Which in my opinion gave him a more human character. If he had a weak spot, this was it. Even in TWS his leaning towards saving/getting back Bucky can be viewed as a tactical error. He is an idealist, making him a good counter to Stark's cynicism. I think it was a conscious choice in the part of the directors and I think it was a good choice. He can't be always right.

Excuse me, but where

Spoiler:

did Tony lose Pepper down the line?

Spoiler:

He explained that all was well after he destroyed all his suits, then came the events of AOU and everything spiralled down (since he was back to making suits).

 

[daikkenaurora]

Spoiler:

Captain American: Spoiler War

 

[TheMalteseFalcon]

Hahaha

Well Civil War isn't perfect. When you get a movie with so many characters sometimes details tend to get glossed over.

I do not agree that the initial conflict was contrived.

Spoiler:

The initial conflict was a debate on whether or not they should have overlords to police them. Cap's team says it's just shifting the blame, but Stark thinks it's going to happen eventually so might as well do it now and then find ways around it later. Because Stark now signed the accords, he was now obliged to take Rogers in. Something he did not want to do, hence the airport fight started off half-hearted, but escalated quickly into what Vision predicted would happen: Catastrophe.

I liked how they showed how each was practically holding back, trying to win the fight while minimizing potential casualties. They were fighting while avoiding seriously hurting anyone. Until Vision made his mistake.

The second part was not a battle of ideology, but more of a battle of anger. Captain trying to stop Iron Man without killing him, while Iron Man tried to kill Bucky without killing Cap. Black Panther was a good contrast to this emotional fight, letting his logic and reasoning dictate his final actions as opposed to Stark's frenzy.

I truly felt bad for Stark at the end. He has lost Pepper, he has lost his team, he almost lost Rhodey, and now he is nothing more but a "Yes" man to Ross.

Cap on the other hand got a good ending. He saved Bucky, saved the rest of the Avengers and found a new ally in Wakanda.

In the end, I liked Zemo. It wasn't comic-book Zemo, but I think he was the first real antagonist to win in the MCU. He won. The Avengers are splintered. The world has turned against its heroes. He dealt a very emotional and psychological blow to a team that has won over aliens, defeated Hydra and overcome physically stronger opponents.

I liked how all of these were presented. I felt for the characters and in the end, I couldn't find myself to root for either group, because they were both right and they both had good intentions.

The flaws...

Some stuff were glossed over. Like how did Tony find Peter? Hank was pretty much against working for the Avengers, how did they get Ant Man's suit? How did Team Iron Man know that Rogers would be going to the airport? When did Bucky tell Steve that he killed Stark's parents? What were Stark's parents doing with those packets of super soldier serum? If they were able to replicate the super soldier serum, why didn't SHIELD have that tech? How did Zemo know all those things about Hydra and The Winter Soldier? He did not seem to be affiliated with Hydra at all...

I came out of the theater with a lot of questions, but I do feel that the positives of the movie outweighed the negatives that's why I looked at it positively. I wasn't disappointed at all. It delivered and I'd watch it again in a heartbeat!

Very valid points, the only one I do have an explanation for is how Steve knew about Bucky and Stark's parents. In WS while Steve and Natasha was in the room talking to Zola(computer) he revealed that Hyrda was behind the deaths of Stark's parents. He explained that "accidents happen" while the screen shows a newspaper clip about Howard Stark's death. Since Hydra controlled Bucky, I think Steve just put 2 and 2 together.