Black Panther Wakanda Forever - November 11, 2022

[evenflow]

It was a good movie but an hour too long. Namor was the best part. Nakia was great as wet, Shuri was much less annoying.

 

[jye4ever]

It was a good movie but an hour too long. Namor was the best part. Nakia was great as wet, Shuri was much less annoying.

Pretty much this.

The movie was decent I actually prefer it to the first.

But ultimately Phase 4 has been a narrative failure that’s a fact jack lol

Even had they recasted the part it wouldn’t have mattered because phase 4 would still remain a narrative failure BUT not recasting made it even worse!

 

[The Buffinator]

But ultimately Phase 4 has been a narrative failure that’s a fact jack lol

Even had they recasted the part it wouldn’t have mattered because phase 4 would still remain a narrative failure BUT not recasting made it even worse!

Phase 4 was always going to suffer in comparison to 1-3 due to the apparent lack of an overarching story on par with the Thanos & the Infinity Stones. And no doubt the plans for it changed late in the game once Marvel got the rights back to core characters like the F4 and X-Men (and let's not forget the impact of the global pandemic). Jettisoning 3 of your most popular characters (Iron Man, Cap, Black Widow) and then unexpectedly losing a 4th in CB's Black Panther didn't help matters. But the MCU didn't become a phenomenon until Avengers in 2012, so perhaps some of what we've seen in terms of the multiverse, Kang, Namor, etc., in Phase 4 will pay off in big ways come Phases 5 and 6. I'm willing to give Feige a little benefit of the doubt at this point. I think he's earned it.

 

[jye4ever]

Phase 4 was always going to suffer in comparison to 1-3 due to the apparent lack of an overarching story on par with the Thanos & the Infinity Stones. And no doubt the plans for it changed late in the game once Marvel got the rights back to core characters like the F4 and X-Men (and let's not forget the impact of the global pandemic). Jettisoning 3 of your most popular characters (Iron Man, Cap, Black Widow) and then unexpectedly losing a 4th in CB's Black Panther didn't help matters. But the MCU didn't become a phenomenon until Avengers in 2012, so perhaps some of what we've seen in terms of the multiverse, Kang, Namor, etc., in Phase 4 will pay off in big ways come Phases 5 and 6. I'm willing to give Feige a little benefit of the doubt at this point. I think he's earned it.

I say this…

Kang is supposedly the new main villain but not one single movie has even mentioned him in ALL of phase 4!

There are now 76 characters who have created the multiverse / new dimension.

Will the real multiverse / dimension please stand up lol

Zero focus!

 

[Sassafras]

Phase 4 was always going to suffer in comparison to 1-3 due to the apparent lack of an overarching story on par with the Thanos & the Infinity Stones. And no doubt the plans for it changed late in the game once Marvel got the rights back to core characters like the F4 and X-Men (and let's not forget the impact of the global pandemic). Jettisoning 3 of your most popular characters (Iron Man, Cap, Black Widow) and then unexpectedly losing a 4th in CB's Black Panther didn't help matters. But the MCU didn't become a phenomenon until Avengers in 2012, so perhaps some of what we've seen in terms of the multiverse, Kang, Namor, etc., in Phase 4 will pay off in big ways come Phases 5 and 6. I'm willing to give Feige a little benefit of the doubt at this point. I think he's earned it.

True. And I don't have a raging hate for Loki, Hawkeye, WandaVision series...if anything thought they were pretty enjoyable with some excellent casting. All the Lokis were great, WandaVision managed to be creepy and cheeky (even if IMO the landing didn't stick); thought they took the right direction with Hawkeye at this point being a kind of world weary uncle.

Don't know if it's true, but a Y-Tuber is saying the biggest audience share of WF went to women (I think over 30) or something. If that's true, then hafta think maybe Feige might be rethinking his approach. To be clear, I've got no objection to female led films; but *&^%$ I miss films like Avengers and TWS, when there was BALANCE and a mixed cast just got down to the story. You didn't get sidelined for skin tone or gender. You didn't hear open insults by default to entire groups of people because supposedly that's funny or charming (whether it's technically even an accurate insult).

Characters had flaws and strengths and had to try to get past their pasts ("I've got blood in my ledger") vs. a parade of super-genius teenagers who are pretty much good at everything because - e.g. fan fiction. Films weren't getting stolen by side characters you really wanna see more of, but don't. Legacy characters didn't get undermined to make new characters look cool (like in BP when Shuri was telling Banner he did his best. WTF. Banner was a published scientist with years of experience and this teenager apparently had never left her bubble).

I've got some hope for Thunderbolts because of the motley mixed group who potentially mostly hate each other. And I hope Feige & co. are looking at comments and audience totals and maybe rethinking their approach. Like get some good writers in - I didn't even bother to watch Hulk, it sounded cringe.
*End rant*. Anyway, will catch WF at home as planned besides so much leaked online anyway.

 

[jye4ever]

The latest leaks suggest every single phase 4 movie was in a different universe / dimension hence why Celestial sticking out of the earth not mentioned by ANYONE!

First can Marvel explain the difference between a multiverse and dimension!

Reminder that this is coming from someone who actually enjoyed Thor 4 that buys me alot of MCU phase 4 forgiveness street cred lol

 

[loki2371]

The latest leaks suggest every single phase 4 movie was in a different universe / dimension hence why Celestial sticking out of the earth not mentioned by ANYONE!

First can Marvel explain the difference between a multiverse and dimension!

Reminder that this is coming from someone who actually enjoyed Thor 4 that buys me alot of MCU phase 4 forgiveness street cred lol

And this is why the introduction of the Multiverse was/is even WORSE than Time Travel!!!!!

At any time they can change the narrative, say failed/unpopular product was in a different verse, pull different versions of characters (race/gender swaps) from anywhere, and continuity/canon is now meaningless.....

I thought time travel in Endgame was bad and dumb, but the MCU Multiverse brings a whole new world to F'in stupid....



It ruined the comics for both DC & Marvel several times where they needed to retcon/correct stuff. So, let's do it in our Cinematic Universes too.... ........

 

[jye4ever]

And this is why the introduction of the Multiverse was/is even WORSE than Time Travel!!!!!

At any time they can change the narrative, say failed/unpopular product was in a different verse, pull different versions of characters (race/gender swaps) from anywhere, and continuity/canon is now meaningless.....

I thought time travel in Endgame was bad and dumb, but the MCU Multiverse brings a whole new world to F'in stupid....



It ruined the comics for both DC & Marvel several times where they needed to retcon/correct stuff. So, let's do it in our Cinematic Universes too.... ........

There is still a chance that 1 out of the 75 Wolverines will be a keeper!

 

[Wor-Gar]

And this is why the introduction of the Multiverse was/is even WORSE than Time Travel!!!!!

It ruined the comics for both DC & Marvel several times where they needed to retcon/correct stuff.

Yes. But now its here. And we see what it has done to Phase 4... as expected with an "anything is possible" universe, there is no focus, no central driving narrative, no sense of threat or true danger to our heroes who can simply "correct" their situation by pulling what they need from another universe like a magician's hat. All that's left are comedic situations which seems to be the only direction the MCU has taken (with the exception of the forced sobriety of BP2 due to a death in the family). If he hadn't passed, BP2 would likely have been a much funnier movie.

 

[jye4ever]

Yes. But now its here. And we see what it has done to Phase 4... as expected with an "anything is possible" universe, there is no focus, no central driving narrative, no sense of threat or true danger to our heroes who can simply "correct" their situation by pulling what they need from another universe like a magician's hat. All that's left are comedic situations which seems to be the only direction the MCU has taken (with the exception of the forced sobriety of BP2 due to a death in the family). If he hadn't passed, BP2 would likely have been a much funnier movie.

It’s true the leaked teaser poster before his passing showed a much light hearted tone…..

 

[The Buffinator]

The latest leaks suggest every single phase 4 movie was in a different universe / dimension hence why Celestial sticking out of the earth not mentioned by ANYONE!

First can Marvel explain the difference between a multiverse and dimension!

Reminder that this is coming from someone who actually enjoyed Thor 4 that buys me alot of MCU phase 4 forgiveness street cred lol

Maybe some, but definitely not all. Let's look at them individually:

Black Widow: Set in the past of what I'll call the known universe of Phases 1-3;
Shang-Chi: Has an after credit scene including Wong, Banner and CM, all of whom look and behave like their Phases 1-3 characters;
Eternals: OK, this seems the most likely candidate, although it references Thanos's snap;
Spidey NWH: Definitely is set in the "known" MCU (picks up right after FFH), with multiple characters visiting from other universes;
DS & the MoM: This one bounces all over the multiverse so is disqualified as a result lol;
Thor L&T: Picks up where Endgame left off (Thor teaming up with the GoTG), so it sure looks like it's in the known universe;
Black Panther WF: Nakia references the snap (when she said she lost T'Challa twice), so between that, Agent Ross, spirit Killmonger, etc., the evidence indicating it's set in the known universe is pretty compelling.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It would have been Shuri sneaking out at night in his BP suit and causing crazy but likeable damage to the neighborhood.

 

[jye4ever]

It would have been Shuri sneaking out at night in his BP suit and causing crazy but likeable damage to the neighborhood.

 

[choombaz]

I’m just not sure why there has to be a hardcore through line in Phase 4, I’m just enjoying the films as they are. There were times (not always) during P1-3 that the stones just felt like wonky baggage.

 

[jye4ever]

I’m just not sure why there has to be a hardcore through line in Phase 4, I’m just enjoying the films as they are. There were times (not always) during P1-3 that the stones just felt like wonky baggage.

True but only a few the rest had a path towards a core narrative.

All of Phase 4 was like a sneeze without covering your nose lol

 

[choombaz]

True but only a few the rest had a path towards a core narrative.

All of Phase 4 was like a sneeze without covering your nose lol

Well my sneezes are insanely loud and annoying and I think P4 is nothing like that, it does a great job of developing the existing characters, like Scarlet Witch and Spidey, introducing great new characters like Shang-Chi and having completely unique adventures like Eternals (I am one of the few people that really enjoys this film) and Moon Knight.

 

[Wor-Gar]

You really can't 'do it again' because... well, then its just rehash. But then if you try something completely different you can end up with... well, Phase 4.

There's no way to win this. The MCU was lucky it had the 11 year run that it had. Unheard of. Likely never heard of again.


Truthfully though, after 11 years, I am completely tired of cape-driven action-adventure movies. Every summer dominated by 2-3 Marvel movies. I want more heroes with everyday abilities, no capes, no neoprene suits, no magic.

 

[choombaz]

Truthfully though, after 11 years, I am completely tired of cape-driven action-adventure movies.

Tbh I don’t think there are enough capes in movies these days. I want John Wick in a cape.

I want more heroes with everyday abilities, no capes, no neoprene suits, no magic.

So more Indy then lol!

 

[Otomofan]

Phase 4 sucks for one reason: characters.

Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, Thor.....those guys are awesome. Those guys ARE Marvel Comics.

Shang Chi? Ikaris? Black Panther's little sister?

To call those losers "Z-list" is an understatement.

Marvel had a hell of a run. Iron Man through Endgame.

But all good things come to an end. Instead of just sitting back and counting their money, Disney thought they could just keep going without those characters. They were wrong. Eventually, people will see the writing on the wall and stop paying money for garbage movies with garbage characters.

 

[choombaz]

Iron Man, Hulk, Captain America, Thor.....those guys are awesome. Those guys ARE Marvel Comics.

Mostly agree. But so are Spidey, Scarlet Witch, Dr Strange, Vision, FF, X-Men. To me, anyway.

Marvel had a hell of a run. Iron Man through Endgame.

True, pretty much untouched, and unlikely they will ever recapture that and they would be stupid to try to repeat it.

But all good things come to an end. Instead of just sitting back and counting their money, Disney thought they could just keep going without those characters. They were wrong. Eventually, people will see the writing on the wall and stop paying money for garbage movies with garbage characters.

I would not call most of the P4 films garbage films with garbage characters (ok will admit Thor 4 and Falcon and WS are pretty much garbage and for a lot of people, Eternals), they are just moving away from the join the dots template. I would be very happy if the next Avengers films and Secret Wars kind of came out of nowhere because sometimes that happens in the comics. They have setup Kang and the multiverse (putting aside if people think they did a good job with them or not). Not everything has to be foreshadowed.