**Beware SPOILERS** Obi-Wan Kenobi Series on Disney+ **Beware SPOILERS**

[DakRen]

Back in the day I saw the 'redemption' as more personal, smaller. This was before the PT and all kinds of additional Force stuff, although admittedly I have almost no idea what happened within the EU material.

Lucas himself is an unreliable narrator because he has many times claimed to have had a grand plan all along when it's pretty apparent he did not, other than maybe a vague outline in his head.

Vader went from Tarkin's attack dog and almost a side-quest for Obi Wan, to suddenly being whom it was about "all along" by the PT era. Suspect at best.


See above. I contend that Lucas had no real plan. And where was it written that without Vader turning on him Palpatine would remain untouchable? I mean that literally -- was that another retconned prophecy or something?


LOL well that's a given.

Was it?

He seemed very fatalistic on board DSII. The idea seemed to be that he was there to buy time for his friends as he thought Vader on Endor (due to his presence) would catastrophically endanger their mission.

If anything I read it as Luke emulating Obi Wan's sacrifice, not 'letting the Force decide'.

While it's true that viewers will interpret a piece of cinema and fill some things in for themselves, there's a threshold beyond which I don't excuse the narrative. There are conventions to storytelling that are there for a reason. You don't need to spell everything out for audiences but you can't be completely opaque and leave it all to the fans, that's just lazy.

Star Wars fandom in general seems to be really good at making excuses for bad writing, of which there is plenty peppered throughout all of the films, even the beloved OT.

There are objectively bad movies that I really enjoy for various reasons, but I don't pretend they're good or project deeper meanings on to them, things I see this fanbase in general doing more than most.

You’re right and at least you’re consistent regarding criticism. SW is such a strange beast because it is something small and contained initially very simplistic and then continually grows wider and more convoluted. The PT both saved and condemned the franchise in some ways. It opened the series to a new generation of fans (me included) but forever changed how the OT functions narratively and mythologically. However the odd dilemma we have currently is how much of Star Wars deserves better and more consistent storytelling. We have so many movies already that the precedent is to have just good enough or disjointed writing. If you count OT, PT or beyond it just changes the ratio of overall quality.

 

[DakRen]

I don't think that would work as a reason because of what ZE_501has already said: it wasn't the merciful thing to do. There is also a big difference between this situation and Dooku.

Yes both was at the end of a duel, but Dooku only lost his hands but was otherwise uninjured. The correct move for Anakin here was to arrest him so he can stand trial (exactly as what Anakin said Windu should do to Palpatine).

For Anakin vs Obi Wan, Anakin lost his limbs and was being burned by lava. Leaving him alive would have been torture. If Obi Wan meant to leave him alive, then he should have captured him and brought him to stand trial (like what Anakin should have done with Dooku) or killed him outright (like he did with Grievous and Maul).

So it's either Obi Wan was a sadist, or he thought Anakin was good as dead. He just left Anakin there, writhing, burning and screaming:

So he left Anakin in a literal and metaphorical pit of his own making.

 

[DakRen]

View attachment 580365

I'll admit it, somewhat surprisingly yes I do.

Why? People are bad mouthing his major work of the PT. Not sure SW really ever deserved to be anything more than an 80’s phenomenon fizzling out and degrading in quality faster than Michael Jackson going from Thriller to HIstory. I mean post ROTJ it was Ewok spin offs and then nothing until EU and Special Edition over ten years later. So what was the point really of expanding the universe at any rate.

 

[DakRen]

It also doesn't help when actors come out publicly in interviews saying they are not a fan themselves and have no idea about anything Star Wars related. That in itself shows they have no idea if they're look or performance will in any way have any backlash. So while yes it may be the director/writers fault it is also the actors for not even bothering to get a feel for what the character should be before stepping in front of the camera for the first time.

Harrison Ford was never a fan of SW and seems to harbor resentment and technically Carrie and Mark couldn’t be fans of something before they made it. I don’t think being a fan precludes or excludes you from being cast in a Star Wars role.

 

[DakRen]

Well at least Kylo Ren is an easy bar to beat.

I'd take Hayden's Anakin over Adam's Kylo any day.

Adam Driver is a way better actor. No offense to Hayden of course but sometimes I forget how cringe he was in prequels. When Kenobi was hearing the dialogue from ROTS in ep3, it was a bit painful. I think Clone Wars had a better sounding Anakin and many people like me prefer that image of the character.

 

[DakRen]

Reva will have the same role as Kylo ren - conflicted good guy who turned bad because of circumstances, but will eventually turn to good again.

Minus the reva scenes, I think act 3 was pretty solid. I enjoyed it. They could’ve gotten rid of reva and her scenes and the whole thing would still flow smoothly imo.

I wish they’d be more consistent with the rest of the trilogy though.

Ben wasn’t supposed to meet Vader until eps 4 at the Death Star when he said “… the last time we met I was but an apprentice. This time I’m the master.” Which mean that the last time they met Ben had the upper hand.

This episode Ben was almost weaker than padawan Luke in ESB for crissake. They could’ve prolly had Vader walk with 4-6 personal security guard droids that help him attack Ben first to tire / weaken him up at this time. Just to show that Vader have yet to master his dark side and new body.

And as each episode pass, show more of him getting deeper into the dark side and evolve into a stronger sith master. Instead of just putting up the mantle suddenly and transform into vet, skilled Sith Lord like per usual.

I understand what you mean but this story is set 10 years after Vader has been in the suit. There are plenty of Legends and current canon comics and stories showing what you want. It didn’t take him a decade to master a lot of what he has gained in the dark side. It looks one sided because Obi-wan is still in shock and rusty whereas Vader trains daily and hunts Jedi and does missions.

Also the line about the learner makes no sense anyway since Anakin was a Knight and a General. What he probably refers to is a learner of the dark side or he is saying metaphorically I was so different then than now because I have truly mastered the force. We may see in the show however how much Vader still needs to learn or not.

 

[greygoose]

I honestly thought for a second that Vader's fire was going to be the way they somehow aged Ewan Ben into Alec Guinness Ben.


I don't know anyone can take stormtroopers in any Disney show and relate them to the OT - obvioulsy they could be goofy at times in the OT (mostly ROTJ) but by and large they were menacing and effective.

The stormies in Disney shows arrive in a big group then end up in a tall pile of white armored bodies within a minute, regardless of who's fighting them, how many are fighting them and with what.

It's a huge weakness in these shows, even in Mando. And it happens over and over and over - pretty much every other episode over all the shows. Early eps of Mando are about the only time stormies were handled more realisitically.

Stormies have always been comedic cannon fodder.

 

[DakRen]

I’m guessing their final showdown will have a much more epic backdrop versus this one that took place at my neighbors backyard.

Please no more lava though lol

I have some bad news…

 

[DakRen]

I’m not sure this needed to be made.
This Kenobi is too different from the prequels.ie bold and confident and certainly not like the version Guinness played of a serene and confident Jedi master.
The reasoning for any changes of personality haven’t been put forth in the script or verbalized. Some forum members have theorized PTSD or voluntarily closing one’s self off from the living Force as explanations but those are guesses.
Poor screen writing on this series.
Why the hell did Vader helplessly just watch the droid rescue Kenobi from the fire?! He couldn’t throw his ignited saber like a boomerang at it or force crush it as Luke did in Mando? No Force pushing the flames aside and walking through?
Stupid.

Because Vader already waited ten years, he can wait a couple more days or whatever time it takes. I did think as you did that he could have easily used force speed to rush through flames or pushed the flames aside. The real reason is because he didn’t want to or has foreseen it isn’t necessary.

 

[e30ernest]

Adam Driver is a way better actor. No offense to Hayden of course but sometimes I forget how cringe he was in prequels. When Kenobi was hearing the dialogue from ROTS in ep3, it was a bit painful. I think Clone Wars had a better sounding Anakin and many people like me prefer that image of the character.

True, but Kylo was also the least intimidating villain in Star Wars IMO. He was even more of a whining little brat than Anakin was with all his angsty tantrums.

 

[DakRen]

Yeah sure. Vader spent 10 years hunting him so they could just cut him loose after five seconds of tickling him with some hot coals. Some people are so desperate to like this stuff that they are willing to lie to themselves.

They even had the doofus Inquisitors lamenting his inexplicable escape.

Dragged through the flaming hot coals and held against them head to the ground by the force doesn’t seem like tickling to me. It was incredibly terrifying to watch and to imagine being in that situation.

 

[DakRen]

I actually disliked this one more than the first 2 episodes.
Still not BoBF or ST bad but, and I can't quite put my finger on why, this episode felt very off to me.
Reva sucked as bad as usual. I joked to my wife that next time I'm going to fast forward her scenes. To be fair though, the other 2 Inquisitors were just as bad in this episode. Some really bad acting on display here. They also look ridiculous.
The music was pathetic. I'm sorry but what a let down. Vader and Obi-Wan duel and the music just isn't memorable or significant at all during it.
I know its not the triumphant, Obi-Wan back to himself again, grand duel, so PT style epic music not necessarily right for this first duel, but I'd expect something that suited the scene, something memorable, something that plays on Obi-Wan's despair.
The music has been subpar throughout so far. A real let down.
The duel itself was pretty bad. I won't call it a let down because we're going to get another, perhaps when Obi-Wan is more himself, which will be the true rematch. But to me, it was bad. I felt nothing watching it. It was just a nothing burger.
Vader himself felt very off too. I don't know, maybe the way he moved or looked. It didn't feel like legit Vader to me. More like a fan in a Vader costume somehow.
Not just Vader but everything in this show, feels so cheap.
Again Ewan was good. I think the child actor playing Leia is doing a good job.
It was cool that Quinlan Voss got a mention. The rebel/Jedi rescue woman was OK. Would be happy to see her again.
Struggling to find anything else positive to say. Feel quite deflated after watching this.

What no feeling whatsoever? Vader using one handed over handed strikes (his signature once donning the suit and having to relearn his lightsaber skills and adapt) and OBK barely blocking them with both hands! Vader toying with OBK like Luke in ESB. This is Vader fully immersed in the dark side he’s feeding off dark deeds and emotions and fear and anger. Then there’s the fact Vader drags OBK through flaming coals to make him suffer even a fraction of the same pain he did. Or when he told OBK I am what you have made me. How anyone couldn’t feel something in Vader’s depiction, dialogue or presence I just don’t know.

 

[DakRen]

Favreau's an idiot if he thinks his 'explanation' for BoBF makes any sense at all. It doesn't even deserve a rebuttal. He should go dive in his giant pool of money and just stop talking. "Edginess" --- LOLOLOLOL ...

This whole idea of "cutting the Force off" is one of Rian's many stupid ideas. Let's just "switch it on and off". Clap on, clap off.

As for Disney going there ... well I guess we knew they would.

Oh, this all sounds terrible.

Cutting off from the force wasn’t Rian’s idea. It’s found all over Legends/EU especially in the story of Ulic Qel-Droma who has his connection stripped from the force by Nomi Sunrider. Hell even Grogu has heavily suppressed his connection to the force due to fear of being discovered and past trauma. It’s not an outlandish concept because mental breaks/blocks happen in real life to many people.

 

[DakRen]

Have we really forgotten ANH and ESB that badly?

Didn’t a stormie hit his head on the blast door in ANH?

 

[e30ernest]

Didn’t a stormie hit his head on the blast door in ANH?

Yes he did.

 

[greygoose]

Have we (and Disney) really forgotten ANH and ESB that badly?

It's become an incredibly lazy Disney SW trope. And it's a bigger problem than you'd think - it undermines the threat and tension, reducing entire sequences that should have tension and suspense to simply a collection of visuals, the outcome never in doubt.

Remind me when the Stormies were a major threat in ANH?

 

[chrisstbh]

Lets be real, Disney don’t care if any of us like their content or not they only care that we continue to give them that Disney+ subscription; and we will.

 

[chrisstbh]

Also someone pointed out there are no classic Star Wars wipes/transitions, and that makes it feel off.

 

[Asta]

 

[Asta]