Things I Hate

[Jen]

And they are free to be. I don't want to be exempt from judgment. All I ask is that people be objective in their evaluations, and not mistake their emotive faculty for their cognitive one.

I think a lot of that has to do with how ideas are presented, truthfully. If someone says, hey you may be interested in reading this as it's an interesting report that show why ________. Versus many people who tend to have a more arrogant approach and their argument seems to be more of a personal slam towards others than trying to enlighten. If a person feels like they are being attacked - I would imagine it may be hard to not have emotions involved.

 

[devilof76]

There's a purpose to presenting ideas calmly, and there's a purpose to presenting them in a way that incites emotion. Neither presentation takes away a person's ability to judge rationally. Appeals to emotion are designed to trick a person into allowing their feelings to get the better of them, but they have to let that happen. No one forces a person to fall victim to the clouded judgment that emotions tend to create, and if a person judges me based on a strong emotion---with no reasoning to back it up---I'll dismiss their appraisal as meaningless. If a person wants their judgment to be taken seriously, they need more than an emotional conviction.

 

[Jen]

There's a purpose to presenting ideas calmly, and there's a purpose to presenting them in a way that incites emotion. Neither presentation takes away a person's ability to judge rationally. Appeals to emotion are designed to trick a person into allowing their feelings to get the better of them, but they have to let that happen. No one forces a person to fall victim to the clouded judgment that emotions tend to create, and if a person judges me based on a strong emotion---with no reasoning to back it up---I'll dismiss their appraisal as meaningless. If a person wants their judgment to be taken seriously, they need more than an emotional conviction.

I guess if I was trying to get someone to come around to my way of thinking..I would present calmly. Not sure what one would get out of trying to trick another so their emotions got their better of them unless you were just trying to humiliate them?

 

[thenammagazine]

Hate handjobbery. I always appreciate straight shooters!

 

[devilof76]

I guess if I was trying to get someone to come around to my way of thinking..I would present calmly. Not sure what one would get out of trying to trick another so their emotions got their better of them unless you were just trying to humiliate them?

There's manipulation, and then there's shooting straight. If you believe a person is not honestly confronting how they truly feel about something, then inspiring an emotional response can be helpful. Of course, if they don't have what it takes to be honest even with the emotion lighting up their face, I doubt a calm presentation would have an effect either.

Basically, it comes down to whether a person is inclined to seek the truth, or to evade it. And there are a lot of reasons to evade (keeping the peace, for example), but none of them are worth a damn if what you're attempting to do is arrive at a clear, accurate judgment. Emotion is a problem if that is what someone is using to make the decision; using it to get them closer to a rational perspective is not.

 

[Jen]

Hate handjobbery. I always appreciate straight shooters!

I appreciate honesty as well - and I think most people do. Though it is nice when people have a tactful approach to their honesty.

 

[Jen]

There's manipulation, and then there's shooting straight. If you believe a person is not honestly confronting how they truly feel about something, then inspiring an emotional response can be helpful. Of course, if they don't have what it takes to be honest even with the emotion lighting up their face, I doubt a calm presentation would have an effect either.

Basically, it comes down to whether a person is inclined to seek the truth, or to evade it. And there are a lot of reasons to evade (keeping the peace, for example), but none of them are worth a damn if what you're attempting to do is arrive at a clear, accurate judgment. Emotion is a problem if that is what someone is using to make the decision; using it to get them closer to a rational perspective is not.

Well here you make inspiring an emotional response as a positive where it may help them face the truth about something.

I got a very different feeling with what you said here:

Appeals to emotion are designed to trick a person into allowing their feelings to get the better of them

This sounds more like manipulation.

Again, my point is all on how we present things. One post I can agree with...the other is little off-putting.

 

[devilof76]

But both are manipulative. If a politician says agree with me or children and old people will starve, that's an appeal to emotion. But if someone calls the same politician a filthy liar, it also appeals to emotion. Whether or not the manipulation is positive depends on where the truth falls. Will children starve, or is he lying?

 

[Jen]

And here I had thought you said that there is manipulation and there is straight shooting - like there was a difference between the two. I do think there is a difference. Emotions can often bring people to action whether that be through voting or donations. If what is being said is truthful. I don't see that as manipulation if it is true. For example - if an animal shelter lost it's funding and it says if we can't raise x amount of dollars from donors we are going to have to close down and euthanize all animals that are not adopted or we are unable to relocate to other shelters. That's going to appeal to those who care about animals and hopefully they will donate or adopt an animal. That is not manipulation in my view. Humans are emotional and because they may have feelings towards something doesn't mean they are being manipulated if they choose to donate or adopt.

If someone is being untruthful and playing off of people emotions than yes that is manipulation. Many politicans play off of people's fear to get them to vote a certain way....often times with no proof or manipulation of the facts. I could cite examples - but I'm sure you can think of some yourself.

To me there is a BIG difference between the two.

Manipulate: to manage or influence skillfully, especially in an unfair manner

I suppose if you choose to overlook the second part of that definition than yes both could be considered manipulation. But if you read the whole definition..then I think there is a difference.

 

[devilof76]

There is a difference, and the second only seems like manipulation if you have to explain or justify it.

 

[Jen]

There is a difference, and the second only seems like manipulation if you have to explain or justify it.

I am not sure what you mean...and I wonder if you are trying to confuse me as it sounded like first you were saying they were different then you said that they are both manipulation..now you are saying there is a difference and only one may seem like manipulation. I'm too tired and I'm off to bed.

 

[devilof76]

Well if you think about it, sugarcoating things to come across as polite is a form of manipulation too. Talking straight is an honest manipulation; smooth talking is dishonest. Both are forms of presenting information in a particular manner so as to influence your audience.

But when it comes right down to it, the only people who get manipulated are the people who can be manipulated.

 

[thenammagazine]

Well if you think about it, sugarcoating things to come across as polite is a form of manipulation too. Talking straight is an honest manipulation; smooth talking is dishonest. Both are forms of presenting information in a particular manner so as to influence your audience.

But when it comes right down to it, the only people who get manipulated are the people who can be manipulated.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chg_JabVUXI"]‪What did you say?‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Skiman]

^^^

 

[sprig0701]

I hate how the Ring manipulated Smeagle into Gollum.

 

[pixletwin]

I hate not getting the last word in...

Luckily in the Cali thread, I was one of the last people to post before the lock.

 

[Jen]

I hate not getting the last word in...

Luckily in the Cali thread, I was one of the last people to post before the lock.

That can be difficult to do on this board when there are so many people who need to have the last word.

 

[Devil_666]

Last Word.

 

[Kabukiman]

I win.

 

[pixletwin]

Whatever happened to the last word thread?