Terminator Salvation - Blu-Ray...

[FACEBOX]

SkyNet knowing about its failed attempts can be explained by the TX uploading information in T-3. However, how would it know about John's attachement to the T800? Only thing l can come up with is that an infinfeltrator overheard John mentioning it, and relayed that info to SkyNet

 

[MaulFan]

But how can the TX know about the past fail attempts, nothing she encounters in T3 tells her anything, and Skynet shouldn't know it before it creates her and sends her back.

 

[FACEBOX]

But how can the TX know about the past fail attempts, nothing she encounters in T3 tells her anything, and Skynet shouldn't know it before it creates her and sends her back.

Well, SkyNet sent back 3 terminators, so there has to be a record of that. lt sent back the first 2 in order to kill John, but came to the conclusion that they failed after noticing that John didnt disappear in the future. So SkyNet decided to go after his lieutenants instead. l think it's safe to assume the TX knew this aswell, and updated SkyNet when she connected to the web.

 

[kl241]

Which would never happen because even if they had terminated Sarah Connor the future relative to John Connor and Skynet would remain unchanged because of the Grandfather Paradox and an alternate timeline would diverge from that point.

 

[FACEBOX]

Which would never happen because even if they had terminated Sarah Connor the future relative to John Connor and Skynet would remain unchanged because of the Grandfather Paradox and an alternate timeline would diverge from that point.

Huh? l don't get it? What would be the point of timetravel if changing the past wouldn't change the future?

l thought that killing Sarah would mean DELETING John from any timeline.....basically hitting the reset button on future events.

 

[kl241]

Exactly. Skynet's logic that it could change the future is flawed. It would only create an alternate future unrelated to the one in which it exists, hence the paradox. You cannot reset the future relative to the one in which you exist. You cannot go back in time and murder your own Grandfather and erase yourself from existence because you came from a timeline in which you did exist.

 

[Master Wayne]

You guys are ruining Back To The Future for me.

 

[kl241]

And Marty would never disappear from the photograph either.

 

[FACEBOX]

Exactly. Skynet's logic that it could change the future is flawed. It would only create an alternate future unrelated to the one in which it exists, hence the paradox. You cannot reset the future relative to the one in which you exist. You cannot go back in time and murder your own Grandfather and erase yourself from existence because you came from a timeline in which you did exist.

I think you're thinking "parallel dimension".
There's only 1 time line. It can be altered and made to change direction, but there's still only 1.
I can see how there might be an endless loop though.

Killing John would mean that John would not exist in the future.
Meaning, it would not have to send back a terminator to get him.
If it never sends back a Terminator, then John WOULD exist, meaning it would have to send back a Terminator to get him. Meaning, that it'd kill him....meaning that he wouldn't exist, meaning that it....umm.... *explodes*

 

[kl241]

The problem is that you are thinking of time linearly and cannot escape the logic of the paradox. If you went back in time and stopped Boothe from assasinating Lincoln, at that moment you have created an alternate timeline tangential to the one you came from and from that moment you exist in a hyper-reality or dimension of time.

Or another example that you go back in time to kill yourself in an act of autoinfanticide. You only kill the you that existed in that timeline.

An equivalent paradox is known (in philosophy) as autoinfanticide—that is going back in time and killing oneself as a baby—though when the word was first coined in a paper by Paul Horwich he used the term autofanticide.[2]

The grandfather paradox has been used to argue that backwards time travel must be impossible. However, a number of possible ways of avoiding the paradox have been proposed, such as the idea that the timeline is fixed and unchangeable, the idea that the time traveler will end up in a parallel timeline, while the timeline in which the traveler was born remains independent or the possibility of the time traveler saving his grandfather's life instead of killing him so that he could later be born and travel back in time so that he could save his grandfather's life, exactly the opposite of the original paradox.

 

[DinoLast]

Exactly. Skynet's logic that it could change the future is flawed. It would only create an alternate future unrelated to the one in which it exists, hence the paradox. You cannot reset the future relative to the one in which you exist. You cannot go back in time and murder your own Grandfather and erase yourself from existence because you came from a timeline in which you did exist.

Just like Nero in Star Trek.
That's why Spock can be in two places at once.

 

[tylerdurden]

Wow, I miss a nice "debate". I just love the "issues" Terminator/Time travel can bring. To what Maul Fan said, I also thought, kinda actually still believe that John had originally a different father and when Kyle came back in time, he took over Daddy's duties. But whatever... hey, maybe John's original father was the dude on Sarah's tape recorder that stood her up for that night when she and Ginger was getting ready to go out. Well back to drinking........

heh, u may be more right than u know, dude. the voice message was done by james cameron himself. who is of course the creator of the terminator saga, which in essence makes him the "father" of john connor... as well as kyle reese, sarah connor, dr. silberman, miles dyson, the terminators, etc etc.

as to whether reese realized he was the father of connor or not, my personal take is that he did not. his angry reaction of "i shoudn't have said that" was to me a sudden realization that he had overstepped the boundaries of his mission. he was first and foremost a disciplined soldier and he would perceive anything beyond protecting sarah connor as a betrayal of john's trust in him. also, he had spent his whole life being in control ("pain can be controlled. u just switch it off."). so when he had that momentary lapse, he got angry at himself. he never expected that his moment of vulnerability would be the very thing that sarah fell for... leading to them getting it on.

besides, for all u know the poor guy didn't even have the slightest idea how babies are made. after all, he was a virgin and they didn't exactly have time for sex-ed classes in the future.

 

[Sentry1]

Picked up the endo-head version this weekend.
Haven't got round to re-watching the film, but the bust itself is really sweet

Hey Nocturne,

Could you tell me how the T600 Endoskull scales up to the T800 Endoskull sizewise?

Thanks
Sentry1

 

[boochydog]

just got done watching this in blu-ray. i liked it more at home than at the theater. maybe it was the cheap-ass theater i was at, but i had a hard time catching all the dialogue over the sound effects in the background of the movie. the second time around, i would give this a 7.0 or a 7.5. the stan winston special feature is definitely worth watching.