Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[a-dev]

*hops in time machine to 2040* *returns* Well whaddaya know everyone's still banging on about the ST aswell - why? Because they're still there and it's Star Wars.

 

[jye4ever]

In 2040 SW fans will be watching Koska: The Fresh Princess of Bel Iblis and the spin off show Koska and Son.

 

[ZE_501]

[...]Rey and kylo was cringy as all hell. Absolutely twilight level crap. [...]

One thing that gets lost in ST discussions is the raging hypocrisy in Disney's narrative messaging.

All that performative corporate feminism. "The Force is Female!" .. hitting us over the head with a sledgehammer as Rey yells at Finn to stop holding her hand.

"Look everyone, a strong independent woman subverting your stone-age notions of a female character! The Force is Female!"

Setting aside the odd conceit that a freshly defected fascist stormtrooper, indoctrinated from childhood, wants to hold hands and 'protect the damsel'. Forget that for now. A soldier trained from childhood to fight alongside women as equals, take orders from female officers, and kill female combatants as equals in the field. Yeah that guy. Let's not talk about that right now.

Disney (and presumably Kennedy) then turn around and saddle Strong Independent Rey with an abusive relationship. She finds herself fascinated and conflicted by a stalker-y, murdering, psychologically manipulative, physically and emotionally abusive male. Because there's something fascinating about him. There's *good* in him. She just needs to find it.

That's an awesome message to send an entire new generation of female fans. ****** you, Disney, ****** you Kennedy and company. What a rotten, brazen, bait and switch.

And to think, that's only one of the problems in this steaming pile of crap that pretends to be progressive on the force of cheap dialogue, corporate shills, tokenism and marketing theatre.

Agenda?

The only agenda this company has is to enrich shareholders and exploit nerds.

 

[TheDucky]

*hops in time machine to 2040* *returns* Well whaddaya know everyone's still banging on about the ST aswell - why? Because they're still there and it's Star Wars.

Nah, a lot of ST haters aren’t bitter old men. We know the movies were failures and have moved on. Besides, it’ll be retconned by then anyways.

 

[a-dev]

Nah, a lot of ST haters aren’t bitter old men

We know the movies were failures and have moved on

Moved on? No you haven't. No I haven't. Nor has anyone who still bothers to come to internet forums to talk about Star Wars

Besides, it’ll be retconned by then anyways.

I don't see it happening but I would like it to.

 

[jye4ever]

Moved on? No you haven't. No I haven't. Nor has anyone who still bothers to come to internet forums to talk about Star Wars



I don't see it happening but I would like it to.

Terminator has really made you bitter

 

[a-dev]

I'm bitter, not obsolete!

One thing that gets lost in ST discussions is the raging hypocrisy in Disney's narrative messaging.

All that performative corporate feminism. "The Force is Female!" .. hitting us over the head with a sledgehammer as Rey yells at Finn to stop holding her hand.

"Look everyone, a strong independent woman subverting your stone-age notions of a female character! The Force is Female!"

Setting aside the odd conceit that a freshly defected fascist stormtrooper, indoctrinated from childhood, wants to hold hands and 'protect the damsel'. Forget that for now. A soldier trained from childhood to fight alongside women as equals, take orders from female officers, and kill female combatants as equals in the field. Yeah that guy. Let's not talk about that right now.

Disney (and presumably Kennedy) then turn around and saddle Strong Independent Rey with an abusive relationship. She finds herself fascinated and conflicted by a stalker-y, murdering, psychologically manipulative, physically and emotionally abusive male. Because there's something fascinating about him. There's *good* in him. She just needs to find it.

That's an awesome message to send an entire new generation of female fans. ****** you, Disney, ****** you Kennedy and company. What a rotten, brazen, bait and switch.

And to think, that's only one of the problems in this steaming pile of crap that pretends to be progressive on the force of cheap dialogue, corporate shills, tokenism and marketing theatre.

Agenda?

The only agenda this company has is to enrich shareholders and exploit nerds.

Dayum ZE. Good post.

It actually was kind of surprising that they not only made the human members of the Resistance very female and racially diverse but the First Order too. I've never been sure what to make of it. For consistency sake with their general messaging - and with the Empire of the OT - you'd think the First Order would have been all white men.

 

[Wor-Gar]

One thing that gets lost in ST discussions is the raging hypocrisy in Disney's narrative messaging.

All that performative corporate feminism. "The Force is Female!" .. hitting us over the head with a sledgehammer as Rey yells at Finn to stop holding her hand.

"Look everyone, a strong independent woman subverting your stone-age notions of a female character! The Force is Female!"

Setting aside the odd conceit that a freshly defected fascist stormtrooper, indoctrinated from childhood, wants to hold hands and 'protect the damsel'. Forget that for now. A soldier trained from childhood to fight alongside women as equals, take orders from female officers, and kill female combatants as equals in the field. Yeah that guy. Let's not talk about that right now.

Disney (and presumably Kennedy) then turn around and saddle Strong Independent Rey with an abusive relationship. She finds herself fascinated and conflicted by a stalker-y, murdering, psychologically manipulative, physically and emotionally abusive male. Because there's something fascinating about him. There's *good* in him. She just needs to find it.

That's an awesome message to send an entire new generation of female fans. ****** you, Disney, ****** you Kennedy and company. What a rotten, brazen, bait and switch.

And to think, that's only one of the problems in this steaming pile of crap that pretends to be progressive on the force of cheap dialogue, corporate shills, tokenism and marketing theatre.

Agenda?

The only agenda this company has is to enrich shareholders and exploit nerds.

Awesome!!!!

 

[Khev]

One thing that gets lost in ST discussions is the raging hypocrisy in Disney's narrative messaging.

All that performative corporate feminism. "The Force is Female!" .. hitting us over the head with a sledgehammer as Rey yells at Finn to stop holding her hand.

"Look everyone, a strong independent woman subverting your stone-age notions of a female character! The Force is Female!"

Setting aside the odd conceit that a freshly defected fascist stormtrooper, indoctrinated from childhood, wants to hold hands and 'protect the damsel'. Forget that for now. A soldier trained from childhood to fight alongside women as equals, take orders from female officers, and kill female combatants as equals in the field. Yeah that guy. Let's not talk about that right now.

Disney (and presumably Kennedy) then turn around and saddle Strong Independent Rey with an abusive relationship. She finds herself fascinated and conflicted by a stalker-y, murdering, psychologically manipulative, physically and emotionally abusive male. Because there's something fascinating about him. There's *good* in him. She just needs to find it.

That's an awesome message to send an entire new generation of female fans. ****** you, Disney, ****** you Kennedy and company. What a rotten, brazen, bait and switch.

And to think, that's only one of the problems in this steaming pile of crap that pretends to be progressive on the force of cheap dialogue, corporate shills, tokenism and marketing theatre.

Agenda?

The only agenda this company has is to enrich shareholders and exploit nerds.

Boy you really got riled up by KK's t-shirts didn't you. Fortunately for myself I don't give a **** what some executive wears for photo ops, I'm only concerned with the end product. So what if Finn was a lifelong warrior who fought alongside capable women. So was Kyle Reese and *he* took Sarah's hand when helping her flee. Why? Because she was still a *civilian.*

So it's bad if a woman is presented as capable and it's bad if that same woman is *incapable* of resisting the lure of an abusive or manipulative man. And then when she *does* resist him and only accepts him after he has fully redeemed himself let me guess, it's still bad, lol. It sounds like someone just likes to complain.

 

[Khev]

I'm bitter, not obsolete!



Dayum ZE. Good post.

It actually was kind of surprising that they not only made the human members of the Resistance very female and racially diverse but the First Order too. I've never been sure what to make of it. For consistency sake with their general messaging - and with the Empire of the OT - you'd think the First Order would have been all white men.

It's almost as if the "anti-white male" agenda that was been projected onto the ST for five years is...utter bullcrap. Imagine that.

 

[ajp4mgs]

One thing that gets lost in ST discussions is the raging hypocrisy in Disney's narrative messaging.

All that performative corporate feminism. "The Force is Female!" .. hitting us over the head with a sledgehammer as Rey yells at Finn to stop holding her hand.

"Look everyone, a strong independent woman subverting your stone-age notions of a female character! The Force is Female!"

Setting aside the odd conceit that a freshly defected fascist stormtrooper, indoctrinated from childhood, wants to hold hands and 'protect the damsel'. Forget that for now. A soldier trained from childhood to fight alongside women as equals, take orders from female officers, and kill female combatants as equals in the field. Yeah that guy. Let's not talk about that right now.

Disney (and presumably Kennedy) then turn around and saddle Strong Independent Rey with an abusive relationship. She finds herself fascinated and conflicted by a stalker-y, murdering, psychologically manipulative, physically and emotionally abusive male. Because there's something fascinating about him. There's *good* in him. She just needs to find it.

That's an awesome message to send an entire new generation of female fans. ****** you, Disney, ****** you Kennedy and company. What a rotten, brazen, bait and switch.

And to think, that's only one of the problems in this steaming pile of crap that pretends to be progressive on the force of cheap dialogue, corporate shills, tokenism and marketing theatre.

Agenda?

The only agenda this company has is to enrich shareholders and exploit nerds.

Ummm... does that really count if Rey is the one doing the abusing in the relationship?

First movie ends with her slicing Kylo with Anakin's lightsaber.

Second one has her leave him for dead on a crumbling ship and then ends with her literally closing the door on Kylo to figuratively shut him out.

Third one has her stab him, and in need of her mercy and rescue. It ends with him dying so she can live - and she couldn't give a mouse turd because she goes on with her life seemingly unphased and happy.

It's an abusive relationship alright... for Kylo/Ben.

 

[ZE_501]

I'm bitter, not obsolete!

Dayum ZE. Good post.

It actually was kind of surprising that they not only made the human members of the Resistance very female and racially diverse but the First Order too. I've never been sure what to make of it. For consistency sake with their general messaging - and with the Empire of the OT - you'd think the First Order would have been all white men.

Whatever one thinks about the reality of geo-politics, Disney's messaging has never been anti-establishment, in no small part because they *are* the establishment.

I think people who are either tired of or afraid of identity politics, and that runs a gamut of different kinds in and of itself -- find it convenient to attack some of Disney's choices for being 'agenda-driven'.

Disney is interested in lip-service, plausible deniability and profit. If they really cared about diversity they wouldn't have sidelined a potentially interesting and complex character like Finn into comedic relief.

They wouldn't have shoe-horned in a woman of colour on a horse as an afterthought while centering their new trilogy around a two-dimensional feminist caricature with a British accent yelling at the black guy and treating him like a clown, who gets saved by her abusive murdering scumbag boyfriend at the end.

They cast the ST with a view to how our modern, cosmopolitan world looks, particularly in major cities, but it's just window dressing.

Admiral Holdo may as well be ADMIRAL KAREN for ******'s sake.

 

[jye4ever]

Boy you really got riled up by KK's t-shirts didn't you. Fortunately for myself I don't give a **** what some executive wears for photo ops, I'm only concerned with the end product. So what if Finn was a lifelong warrior who fought alongside capable women. So was Kyle Reese and *he* took Sarah's hand when helping her flee. Why? Because she was still a *civilian.*

So it's bad if a woman is presented as capable and it's bad if that same woman is *incapable* of resisting the lure of an abusive or manipulative man. And then when she *does* resist him and only accepts him after he has fully redeemed himself let me guess, it's still bad, lol. It sounds like someone just likes to complain.

It's almost as if the "anti-white male" agenda that was been projected onto the ST for five years is...utter bullcrap. Imagine that.

Damned if they do

Damned if they don't

I still like Rey lol

 

[ZE_501]

Ummm... does that really count if Rey is the one doing the abusing in the relationship?

First movie ends with her slicing Kylo with Anakin's lightsaber.

Second one has her leave him for dead on a crumbling ship and then ends with her literally closing the door on Kylo to figuratively shut him out.

Third one has her stab him, and in need of her mercy and rescue. It ends with him dying so she can live - and she couldn't give a mouse turd because she goes on with her life seemingly unphased and happy.

It's an abusive relationship alright... for Kylo/Ben.

Great, they give her some "You go girl" moments. She's still in a conflicted relationship with an abusive psychopath and tenderly kisses him while unable to extricate herself from him until he conveniently dies for her. Oopsie, all is forgiven Kylo.

 

[Khev]

Whatever one thinks about the reality of geo-politics, Disney's messaging has never been anti-establishment, in no small part because they *are* the establishment.

I think people who are either tired of or afraid of identity politics, and that runs a gamut of different kinds in and of itself -- find it convenient to attack some of Disney's choices for being 'agenda-driven'.

Disney is interested in lip-service, plausible deniability and profit. If they really cared about diversity they wouldn't have sidelined a potentially interesting and complex character like Finn into comedic relief.

They wouldn't have shoe-horned in a woman of colour on a horse as an afterthought while centering their new trilogy around a two-dimensional feminist caricature with a British accent yelling at the black guy and treating him like a clown, who gets saved by her abusive murdering scumbag boyfriend at the end.

They cast the ST with a view to how our modern, cosmopolitan world looks, particularly in major cities, but it's just window dressing.

Admiral Holdo may as well be ADMIRAL KAREN for ******'s sake.

I'll give you Admiral Karen but good lord your assessment of Rey is way off the mark. She's an archetype for gosh sakes, and a very universal one at that. Take your assessment of her being saved by a murdering scumbag at the end and apply it to Luke and Vader if you want to realize how silly it is.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Great, they give her some "You go girl" moments. She's still in a conflicted relationship with an abusive psychopath and tenderly kisses him while unable to extricate herself from him until he conveniently dies for her. Oopsie, all is forgiven Kylo.

To me, the problem you're identifying here is the problem I had all along with the prospect of a redeemed Ben Solo. But to portray Rey as some kind of "victim" in a relationship where she repeatedly shows no dependency on him *whatsoever* is an argument that I find silly.

 

[jye4ever]

The ST might just be the most misunderstood trilogy in history

 

[jye4ever]

Ummm... does that really count if Rey is the one doing the abusing in the relationship?

First movie ends with her slicing Kylo with Anakin's lightsaber.

Second one has her leave him for dead on a crumbling ship and then ends with her literally closing the door on Kylo to figuratively shut him out.

Third one has her stab him, and in need of her mercy and rescue. It ends with him dying so she can live - and she couldn't give a mouse turd because she goes on with her life seemingly unphased and happy.

It's an abusive relationship alright... for Kylo/Ben.

 

[Khev]

The ST might just be the most misunderstood trilogy in history

No kidding. One has to look no further than the pathologically off the mark application of Kylo's "let the past die, kill it if you have to" line to KK, RJ, and LFL as a whole. That was a line uttered by the freaking VILLAIN ffs, lol. It wasn't the corporate mantra, lol.

But it doesn't matter how many times it's shoved in the naysayers' faces that Ford *wanted his character to die* and Carrie *died in real life* and *that* is the biggest reason we had such limited involvement from the OT legacy characters. But no, a villain said something that aligns with their narrative so run with that.

 

[ajp4mgs]

The ST might just be the most misunderstood trilogy in history

Which would be okay if some of the misunderstanding wasn't willful.

No kidding. One has to look no further than the pathologically off the mark application of Kylo's "let the past die, kill it if you have to" line to KK, RJ, and LFL as a whole. That was a line uttered by the freaking VILLAIN ffs, lol. It wasn't the corporate mantra, lol.

But it doesn't matter how many times it's shoved in the naysayers' faces that Ford *wanted his character to die* and Carrie *died in real life* and *that* is the biggest reason we had such limited involvement from the OT legacy characters. But no, a villain said something that aligns with their narrative so run with that.

The one that gets me the most will always be the Luke narrative. Guy ends the OT having reached an epiphany regarding giving in to violence and anger. He throws down his sword and leaves himself at the mercy of two enemies rather than continue to draw arms. Ends his life by symbolically facing down "the whole First Order" with his "laser sword" to save his sister and her allies. He accomplishes it without shedding any blood, and he affirms that the Jedi are reborn.

And the reaction? Outrage. I'll never stop being at a loss on that one.