1/6 Hot Toys-The Terminator (T1)-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) 1/6 Scale Figure

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

...because that damn T1 has that THING walking among humans, representing their fate, and T2 just says that thing is a nice guy, there are 100500 such movies! it can't be bargained with, it can't be reasoned with, but it surely can be sold for a bigger rating due to turning into a family hero.

And T1 is like 100500 other horror movies with a serial killer walking around, so what Michael Myers in the Halloween movies might aswell be a Terminator.

It really can be boiled down to that, if you insist on doing so with T2.

All that matters is that the films are good and internally plausible, which they both are.

 

[holtrax]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Both films are good, each in their own way. Cameron had to take t2 in a different direction than t1 or it would have just been a rehased version of the film which was only made 7 years earlier at the time of making. I think it would have been quite boring if they had done this and the fact they made the terminator a good guy or at least having the premise of being one was a good decision.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

And it's always initiated by the same people. As soon as you think it's over, the discussion rears it's ugly head.

T1 and T2 are equals as far as I'm concerned. I'm sick of seeing the notion that T2 is kiddie crap.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

I'm sure that Cameron changed from the early '80s when he came up with Terminator, to late '80s when he wrote T2--both in terms of his creative tendencies and preferences, and his motivations for appealing to different kinds of moviegoers. As a result, they are very different movies. Personally, like P., it's hard for me to think of these as genuinely part of the same "universe" because the threat and horror of T1 just aren't there in T2. In T1, T-800 establishes himself as a remorseless killer right off the bat, and you feel a real threat for Sarah Connor. A fear that is fairly justified in that the second most important protagonist bites it. In T2, right when "Bad to the Bone" plays, the audience knows that this isn't a character to fear, and that the whole tone of the movie is one of fun, mass pleasing action rather than horror. You can critique either film on various fronts, and you can logically argue that the films do fit together very well, but I personally think of them as disconnected in the same way that Alien and Aliens (another Cameron sequel) don't really fit together. Different aesthetics, really different genres of film, meant to appeal to different audiences. But I don't think P.'s comments are wrong, considering where he comes from. There are inconsistencies in those films as a result of the shift in tone and story development needed to tell that kind of story.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

But why do you guys seem to require that the T-800 be the baddie? Sure 'Bad to the bone' immediately signalled that he wasn't but then we got the T-1000 immediately killing a police officer. There's your threat. Did you guys just find the T-1000 to be an unimpressive villain? I know P. thinks he's a fantasy creature (in a universe that has time travel I must add) but what about you Kara?

Also this 'disconnect' you feel between the films - no, I just don't agree. Either for Terminator or for Alien. I agree that T1 has a horror tone, I agree that T2 is more of a blockbuster but they still seem like the same world to me, likewise Alien and Aliens. Scripts and character's all feel compatible even down to the cheese ''in the few hours we spent together we loved a lifetime's worth'' = ''if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can too''

I mean to complain about the 'bigger budget' aspect is like to complain that they didn't make exactly the same film again (as Holtrax is saying above). I'm sure you wouldn't want that therefore you must be more of the opinion that no sequel should ever have been made?

 

[BadMuthaDude]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Jim and Arnold created a memorable villain that was embraced by millions. Then, they took a big risk in taking that character and making him the hero for the next film. Arnold was skeptical about it but Jim convinced him and once again, the character was embraced by millions. They're both great to me. Sometimes I want to see the villain, sometimes I want to see the hero. I do however lean a bit toward T2 due to it being the first I watched and that it is much more visually impressive.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Jim and Arnold created a memorable villain that was embraced by millions. Then, they took a big risk in taking that character and making him the hero for the next film. Arnold was skeptical about it but Jim convinced him and once again, the character was embraced by millions. They're both great to me. Sometimes I want to see the villain, sometimes I want to see the hero.

Exactly. Its cool to have the choice. Now I'll say this. Making him the hero worked once, and once only. Every single criticism that's being thrown at T2 (unfairly IMO) I would readily throw at T3. Cameron didn't decide that the T-800 had to now be the good guy by default, subsequent film-makers and writers did. Cameron had the sense to just leave it at T2. I only wish he had made a third film set in 2029, a 'prequel' set in the future. John Connor and Reese as the heroes, T-800s most certainly villains.

I dread T5. Not a single lesson will have been learnt from T3 and T4, guarantee it.

 

[BadMuthaDude]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Exactly. Its cool to have the choice. Now I'll say this. Making him the hero worked once, and once only. Every single criticism that's being thrown at T2 (unfairly IMO) I would readily throw at T3. Cameron didn't decide that the T-800 had to now be the good guy by default, subsequent film-makers and writers did. Cameron had the sense to just leave it at T2. I only wish he had made a third film set in 2029, a 'prequel' set in the future. John Connor and Reese as the heroes, T-800s most certainly villains.

Yes, T2 took it as far as it needed to go in terms of a hero T-800 and time travel. It would have been better to focus on that apocalyptic future we were teased with but somebody got greedy and had to go there again.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

And something people seem to be missing is that the Terminator from the first film is the same character as the second. The same being or entity? No. But the same character. It has development and a thought provoking arc, just like Sarah. A film character that can be taken and have the gears change to be depicted in a newer, different light, while STILL being more or less the same is fascinating.

This isn't T3 where you have a "T-850" and the character and story relies on self parody and mockery of what came before. It's taking the T-800 and Sarah Connor from the first film and turning them on their head. Okay, he was the villain for the main antagonist, now he's the hero for the main protagonist.

Lets not get into "canon" either when all the ideas presented in T2 were flowing through T1's veins. No Fate, Sarah wanting to "86 the bastard", the possibilit of Skynet sending more (behind the scenes in the script Reese warns Sarah if anything happens to him, hide and be prepared for more one traveling Terminators). Hell, Cameron's original conception HAD the "mercury man" concept in it but was limited to tech and budget.

 

[olbertfrog]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

yes, exactly, everybody is nice and still the AI turns out evil. that's the plot of T1. and suddenly in T2 Skynet is not "a new order of intelligence", it doesn't "decide fate", it's just a frightened AI, may be nice deep inside, and all that threat goes away, just be kind, care for your friends, and skynet will be loyal as a puppy.

that is impossible, because if it was possible, skynet, as a much more intelligent computer, knowing a lot more about humans, would gain humanity long ago.
as i said, all skynet/terminator concept is killed in T2, turning into a random robot-with-a-soul movie.

all that "it's just an instrument, people are the ones bad" nullifies the T1 essence.

T2 is a nice guy from the beginning, politely informing people about his needs, caring for their health, forgetting to say please but being a positive character all in all.
T1 killed humans for just one knife against him (punk). or for bare hands (Matt). T2 forgave multiple threats like knives, shotguns, pistols and common crowd aggressiveness. no, he's a hero, he's cool and correct from the start )
uh-huh. look above.

About Skynet´s reasons to wipe out humans.
Ive remember reading something about the fact that skynet wanted to cleanse humanity for its own good.
Too much humans, too much disorder so it wanted to keep only a bunch of humans alive.
I know this was also in the original Salvation script, when connor and marcus were at skynet´s base they discover a small city with houses and golf courses (there was this whole chase with a golf minicar pursued by an hk tank dear god) with upgraded humans like marcus living in peace with the machines.

 

[BazookaJoe]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Jeeeeeez, where was all this at the weekend? The forums were dead!

 

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Ha! I know, they really were. Bugger all activity.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

T1 and T2 are equals as far as I'm concerned. I'm sick of seeing the notion that T2 is kiddie crap.

Of course T2 wasn't for kids, DAMN IT! Now If you all excuse me, I'll be in my room playing with my Kenner Terminator 2 toys and drinking my juice from my T2 collectible cup I keep in my sweet T2 lunchbox

 

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Was Aliens made for kids? Just I seem to remember an entire line of toys based on it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Was Aliens made for kids? Just I seem to remember an entire line of toys based on it.

It's a joke!!! Robocop and Rambo had toys too.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

It didn't read that way

And people here are so determined to find fault with T2 that they would consider it a valid line of argument against it. There were toys, therefore it was for kids. When really its a case of ''it was a blockbuster, therefore there were toys''

This is more directed at the general attack of T2 as a 'kids movie' now than a response to your post Clown Prince but if T2 is for kids how come I wasn't allowed see it at the cinema? My brothers wanted to see it but they had to bring me along (I wanted to see a Turtles film as I recall) and because I, a child, was with them they were refused.

Of the 2 films T2 is more child-friendly, sure, who would deny that. That doesn't make it a kids movie, not when your villain is stabbing people in the head and Sarah Connor is dropping F-bombs.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Toy lines back then just didn't care. Even my parents didn't mind the violence Predator had toys too I really had the T2 figures when I was kid, and they were terrible. All I wanted as a kid was a clean non battle-damaged terminator figure with the sunglasses and the outfit from the movie, but instead, they just made a bunch of battle-damaged figures without the trademark costume. That's one of the reasons I love the MMS and DX10.

 

[BazookaJoe]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Apart from t2 losing the slight horror overtones, I struggle to see a difference in the graphic content of the two films. You have the blade through the throat of johns stepdad, spike through the eye of the pescadero guard etc which I think is as "adult" as anything in T1.

It seems that most people just have a problem with the violence and killing being from someone other than the T800, yet he's the protagonist. How many people did Reese kill again??

 

[BazookaJoe]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

Toy lines back then just didn't care. Even my parents didn't mind the violence Predator had toys too I really had the T2 figures when I was kid, and they were terrible. All I wanted as a kid was a clean non battle-damaged terminator figure with the sunglasses and the outfit from the movie, but instead, they just made a bunch of battle-damaged figures without the trademark costume. That's one of the reasons I love the MMS and DX10.

Apologies for the double post but man I wholeheartedly agree. My "favourite" of the bunch I had was the BD arnie with interchangeable arms as it was closest to the film but even back then I had absolutely no idea why they made the jacket sleeveless and the t shirt a burgundy colour. Pretty sure I got my mom to do a pretty decent paintjob on it

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Re: Article: Hot Toys-The Terminator-MMS 238-T-800-(Battle Damaged Version) Collectib

It's a combination of things. It seems more kid friendly because it had a toy line, a lot of merchandise, the film was a huge box office hit and a summer film, and it was a more mainstream film filled with lots of great action sequences and even some humor. Not to mention, one of the main characters is a child for kids to relate to, I know I did, but I still wanted to be the T 800