Hot Toys MMS429 - Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker

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I see absolutely no difference in the quality of these two, except maybe the eyebrows, but those were a lot better on the production piece anyway.
Bespin Luke was an awesome sculpt, awesome paint job and I love the pers on him. I don't think the quality of HT has changed all that much since then tbh.


Great comparison pic. Although I must say the ROTJ Luke pic is instant recognition to me. And that's a pretty good sign that the sculpt is very good.

Just decided to order him so I'm on the bandwagon now !




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Well naturally everyone will look out for self interests, those unhappy with it will want it worked more, those happy with it would then divide if changes were made, with some liking it even more with the changes and others wanting it to go back to the way it was.

I have never taken issue with people expressing displeasure with how a piece turns out or wishing it would be tweaked so they could like it, but the one trend that runs rampant on this site, not saying specifically in this thread yet, just a trend in people, is, when a product does not meet their expectations, too many members will talk and act as if Hot Toys or whoever is making the product, is responsible for their happiness and act like they have been betrayed by their dearest friend to not give them the figure exactly how they'd like. That attitude pisses me off so bad, I hate entitlement, it's a disgusting behavior and unfortunately, the world breeds it more and more, I can't change the world but I sure will not allow my son to grow up like that.

The bottom line is, companies make products and we can like them enough to buy or not, we can dream of what could have been, we can hold out for the next effort in hopes of something more to our liking, but no one owes us anything.

True, but when a company doesn't quite nail it, it clears the decks for that particular figure/outfit - no "next effort" for many years. So if HT drops the ball on an old Ben sculpt for example, no other old Ben will be made in 1/6 for at least 3+ years, maybe much longer with less in-demand characters like Ben, maybe a shorter time for Han in a particular outfit. It makes the "don't buy it then" argument harder to swallow - this is "it" for the next 5 years for the character you love and really want on your shelf.

There's always the aspect of people who own older versions of the character in 1/6 trying to protect the value of the fig they own (that can drive negativity/trolling of the "replacement" fig,) but there's also a kind of pressure cooker thing where people have been waiting for years for a character in 1/6, then hear rumors, then it's revealed and it's not at the level they wanted and everyone knows that this is "it" so things go further. HT Indy was a good example of that (thread was closed.)

And the one thing comments about "entitlement" and "happiness" downplay is things like - for example - a $270 pricepoint on SSC Snowspeeder Luke. It raises the bar considerably over if it was a $170 fig. For nearly $300 for a fairly straight-forward fig, many would argue you are indeed "entitled" to "happiness." Like saying you should have the same expectations checking into a $50 Motel 6 versus a $300 Five Star hotel.
 
True, but when a company doesn't quite nail it, it clears the decks for that particular figure/outfit - no "next effort" for many years. So if HT drops the ball on an old Ben sculpt for example, no other old Ben will be made in 1/6 for at least 3+ years, maybe much longer with less in-demand characters like Ben, maybe a shorter time for Han in a particular outfit. It makes the "don't buy it then" argument harder to swallow - this is "it" for the next 5 years for the character you love and really want on your shelf.

There's always the aspect of people who own older versions of the character in 1/6 trying to protect the value of the fig they own (that can drive negativity/trolling of the "replacement" fig,) but there's also a kind of pressure cooker thing where people have been waiting for years for a character in 1/6, then hear rumors, then it's revealed and it's not at the level they wanted and everyone knows that this is "it" so things go further. HT Indy was a good example of that (thread was closed.)

And the one thing comments about "entitlement" and "happiness" downplay is things like - for example - a $270 pricepoint on SSC Snowspeeder Luke. It raises the bar considerably over if it was a $170 fig. For nearly $300 for a fairly straight-forward fig, many would argue you are indeed "entitled" to "happiness." Like saying you should have the same expectations checking into a $50 Motel 6 versus a $300 Five Star hotel.
I would agree with Maulfan.

HT not coming through and delivering to an individual's expectations has no real effect on that individual. HT does not force any purchase and doesn't owe anything to anyone.

They deliver a product. If it is no good, then people can certainly voice an opinion, refuse to purchase, but anything more than that.

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I wonder if they would ever come out with the Bespin/Dagobah Luke again.


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I wonder if they would ever come out with the Bespin/Dagobah Luke again.


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They've done 2.0 figures before, but under what specific conditions I'm not sure. The DX07 won't likely be topped in terms of overall package, but I'd love for them to take another crack at the ESB Hamill with a Bespin 2.0. It's been a few years now...
 
They've done 2.0 figures before, but under what specific conditions I'm not sure. The DX07 won't likely be topped in terms of overall package, but I'd love for them to take another crack at the ESB Hamill with a Bespin 2.0. It's been a few years now...

That is my ultimate Luke is the training on Dagobah and the Vader Cloud City battle.
Wouldn't be tempted by any luke but that one.


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5f2ed0d9b3a96f12202b6b03ade4274c.jpg

To show just how far we've come in a few short years.

This is definitely a figure I would buy multiples of so if HT came out with another one or an exclusive toy fair type version I would be on board with that as well.

Can never have enough Lukes.
Good comparison, and I agree that the Jedi sculpt is way better. BUT, I would not say that HT has somehow progressed. They were hit-and-miss back then, they are hit-and-miss now.
 
True, but when a company doesn't quite nail it, it clears the decks for that particular figure/outfit - no "next effort" for many years. So if HT drops the ball on an old Ben sculpt for example, no other old Ben will be made in 1/6 for at least 3+ years, maybe much longer with less in-demand characters like Ben, maybe a shorter time for Han in a particular outfit. It makes the "don't buy it then" argument harder to swallow - this is "it" for the next 5 years for the character you love and really want on your shelf.

If a collector feels a sense that they absolutely must own something, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility though. I'll give an example from my own past. From the moment Sideshow revealed their 1/6 T-800 figure from T2, I dreamt of a fully battled damaged version. Sideshow didn't produce it, I was disappointed and vocally sad, but I was not angry with them over it. NECA produced a 12" figure of it but it was solid plastic, was it what I dreamt of, no, and I had a choice, buy or wait and hope for someone to deliver on my dreams, and I made the choice to buy, but I could have passed. Enterbay finally came through and created the figure I'd always dreamt of, but the timing of when it came out and the price meant me not being able to get it, a figure I dreamt of for years and lived up to those dreams was within my grasp and I had to let it go. Was I sad and vocal again, you bet, did I ***** about EB like they ruined my life or let me down, know, timing sucks, life moves on. Collectibles are a luxury, not a necessity, no matter how much we feel we want or need something, we don't truly need it, and if we never get, the sun will rise the next morning and life will carry on. That's my only point, that some people post comments like there is no meaning in their life without a certain collectible and if it doesn't live up to their expectation and they pass on it, their life has been destroyed. I just feel a healthy perspective on the importance of collectibles in our lives needs to be maintained.

There's always the aspect of people who own older versions of the character in 1/6 trying to protect the value of the fig they own (that can drive negativity/trolling of the "replacement" fig,) but there's also a kind of pressure cooker thing where people have been waiting for years for a character in 1/6, then hear rumors, then it's revealed and it's not at the level they wanted and everyone knows that this is "it" so things go further. HT Indy was a good example of that (thread was closed.)

Again, I get the dreaming of something, building up an image in your head, disappointment when the realization of your dream doesn't wholly meet that vision, but there can also be compromise and balance. What I most often see is black or white response, no gray, either "yes it met my every expectation" or "one tiny feature is off, dreams smashed, it's a piece of **** and the company doesn't know how to make figures." I don't know why it's so hard to see comments more along the lines of "I've been dreaming of this for a long time and this doesn't completely meet my expectations, I wish _____ was different, but I'm still glad it's being made."

Is a NECA T-800 everything I could ever hope for, certainly not, but if that were my only option ever, and at one point it seemed to be, I could learn to appreciate it for what it is and not dwell on what it isn't. That's my issue with the way this hobby has changed, many collectors that are joining these communities don't seem capable of finding the positivity in a situation that isn't 100% positive for them, it's all or nothing.

And the one thing comments about "entitlement" and "happiness" downplay is things like - for example - a $270 pricepoint on SSC Snowspeeder Luke. It raises the bar considerably over if it was a $170 fig. For nearly $300 for a fairly straight-forward fig, many would argue you are indeed "entitled" to "happiness." Like saying you should have the same expectations checking into a $50 Motel 6 versus a $300 Five Star hotel.

Again, if you see a figure priced at $300, and you expect a certain quality for that cost and don't feel it's there, you are well within your right to object to it and not pay it, but the company is not obligated to raise the piece to the level you deem fit for the cost, and they're not going to because for each person who objects, there tends to be someone who doesn't and pays it anyway. If sales plummet enough where these companies feel they can't get their asking price no matter what they do, they'll change, but if they can get what they charge for the work, they'll continue.

Sideshow's new Darth Maul is not remotely a $230 package, not when this Luke is the same price and comes with everything he does, but in their eyes, Sideshow's selling well enough to still charge high for less, and they're even doing another production run of Maul it's been selling well enough.

All I'm saying is, people don't have to just be grateful and love everything that comes out, you can be displease and discuss why, it's when people start to act like some injustice has been done upon them that I take issue, it's an overly dramatic, unwarranted reaction over a luxury item. My girlfriend's 4 year old acts like that, he gets a new toy then complains about not getting the other one that goes with it, when he talks like that I tell him the one he did get can go back to the store if he's not going to appreciate it.
 
Good post !!.

Yep a comparison to a 4 year old is pretty appropriate in this forum sometimes.

But there are good guys and grownups. So I tend to scroll over the 4 year old comments.


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Of course there are the "grown up" posters and the "children", I'm suggesting both realize you're stuck with other, just like a real family, and you can either work towards getting along or argue all the time, trying to be optimistic for getting along.
 
Wait.. There's people who think the likeness is actually off?! Lol. This is holy grail material and factually the most accurate Hamill sculpt from Jedi in any scale. Only thing people can have a problem with is his expression. Which makes no sense, cause he looked this way about 90% of the movie lol.
 
Wait.. There's people who think the likeness is actually off?! Lol. This is holy grail material and factually the most accurate Hamill sculpt from Jedi in any scale. Only thing people can have a problem with is his expression. Which makes no sense, cause he looked this way about 90% of the movie lol.

I'm no longer surprised. Some likenesses are contentious because they flicker in and out with lighting and angle. But when you hit a strong likeness there are *always* those who see none at all. It's the way of one-sixth.
 
I buy what I like regardless of what other people say about it. I don't need validation from other people to help make my decisions palatable. I do however like to share in the excitement of something I like with other people. But I don't spend one single second of time on things I don't like or have little interest in. My time is too valuable for that.
 
Great posts, Maulfan!

I agree that we do see a lot of “entitled” reactions and it’s frustrating to read. I know many here may just be exaggerating for effect or for humor, but it surprises me when I see some that are (or appear to be) genuinely angry and lash out maliciously towards HT and people who disagree.

I don’t think HT or Sideshow or any other company is above criticism. Talibane is right in saying that those companies need to hear the negatives along with the positives in order for them to make the best possible product especially at their prices. But it’s all about the tone and intention. The tone also helps get your voice heard by those in power to do something. If a poster is going to be fair and constructive, I think HT and SS are more willing to hear those opinions out. But if a person is angrily yelling that “it’s the worst sculpt ever! Hasbro’s sculpt was better than that!”, then they’re most likely going to ignore the comment, even if there was some kernel of truth in it.
 
Also, I don't know that the comparisons between SS and Hot Toys from a cost perspective is entirely right. Sideshow is an American company. Sure they use overseas factories, but there is a significant difference in operational costs for an American company versus and Asian one. Same can be said for buying anything really.
What I'm more surprised by, is how quickly expectations have changed. When you look at older figures, even ones in your own collections, there were many figures that I was blown away by when they came out -- but they look like dirt compared to today's figures. BUT, maybe because I own them, I still love them. Personally, I'm trying to remember that attitude when I buy current figures. Sure the prices have gone up, substantially in some cases, but figures weren't perfect then, and they aren't perfect now. Any figure I buy today, will likely look like crap 5 years from now. Just got to be happy with your own purchases and collections...
 
Not just for the sake of being a contrarian, but because I actually feel this way, I'd like to defend those of us who are critical, not just about this figure, but as consumers in general. First, regarding this figure:

View attachment 353532

I would argue that it's about as accurate as the ANH Han Solo figure. Some of you like it, some of you don't. You can argue over your subjective taste in aesthetics as much as you'd like, but pictures don't lie. The figure's likeness is about 80% accurate, give or take. If you look at the spacing of the eyes and their shape, the excessively hard jawline and prominent chin, the "barrel" sticking out a bit too much, the lack of asymmetry in the right upper lip and (although lighting might be an issue here) the cheek bones, it's not 95% accurate. I can see how others might say they see a bit of Mick Jagger in the sculpt. Sorry, I call it as I see it. It's not bad, and it's definitely the best figure of Jedi Luke that's been produced, presuming it ends up looking like the prototype. For the record, I really like my ANH Han figure, too, but let's be honest...

Regarding entitlement: Let's say we all agree that there's nothing more annoying than an inflated sense of entitlement, because no one owes anyone anything in the abstract. I agree. However, normative claims regarding behavior are a sense of entitlement. The moment you say that people "shouldn't" behave in a particular way, you start traveling down a very contentious path regarding virtue ethics, etc. When Louis CK claims that kids should appreciate things more, HE has an ironic sense of entitlement regarding gratitude. Not very Zen, if you're into that sort of thing. As for me, I'm old enough that I've abandoned idealism. I don't care what other people do, unless it effects me. When it does, I wield leverage to alter their behavior. That's what criticism is: leverage. Too much of it is bad for business, so as a consumer you can use it, to get what you want.
 
Not just for the sake of being a contrarian, but because I actually feel this way, I'd like to defend those of us who are critical, not just about this figure, but as consumers in general. First, regarding this figure:

View attachment 353532

I would argue that it's about as accurate as the ANH Han Solo figure. Some of you like it, some of you don't. You can argue over your subjective taste in aesthetics as much as you'd like, but pictures don't lie. The figure's likeness is about 80% accurate, give or take. If you look at the spacing of the eyes and their shape, the excessively hard jawline and prominent chin, the "barrel" sticking out a bit too much, the lack of asymmetry in the right upper lip and (although lighting might be an issue here) the cheek bones, it's not 95% accurate. I can see how others might say they see a bit of Mick Jagger in the sculpt. Sorry, I call it as I see it. It's not bad, and it's definitely the best figure of Jedi Luke that's been produced, presuming it ends up looking like the prototype. For the record, I really like my ANH Han figure, too, but let's be honest...

Regarding entitlement: Let's say we all agree that there's nothing more annoying than an inflated sense of entitlement, because no one owes anyone anything in the abstract. I agree. However, normative claims regarding behavior are a sense of entitlement. The moment you say that people "shouldn't" behave in a particular way, you start traveling down a very contentious path regarding virtue ethics, etc. When Louis CK claims that kids should appreciate things more, HE has an ironic sense of entitlement regarding gratitude. Not very Zen, if you're into that sort of thing. As for me, I'm old enough that I've abandoned idealism. I don't care what other people do, unless it effects me. When it does, I wield leverage to alter their behavior. That's what criticism is: leverage. Too much of it is bad for business, so as a consumer you can use it, to get what you want.


ev

I get what you're saying. Louis CK has a bit, about how kids these days are ungrateful when their cell phone service lags. "It's travelling to space! Take a minute to appreciate that!" Or something to that effect. A lot of people feel the way you do.

However, I'm glad that these forums provide the opportunity for both passionate praise and criticism simultaneously. I don't always agree with it, but I'm always glad that I live in a western society where supply and demand drive innovation, whether we're talking about tech, toys or what have you. All feedback, positive and negative is constructive even when it's about subjective tastes... and when companies release prototypes prior to production for aesthetic goods like toys, they'd be wise to take notes in an increasingly competitive field.

People forget that this isn't just "art", but a technical skill. There aren't just subjective elements to making these figures, but quantifiable parameters in making a likeness. What I don't understand, is how occasionally products get released where there's inadequate attention paid to reference material, when you're creating toys aimed at achieving a realistic likeness of I.P. I mean, if your demographic want to spend $300 on a doll, in hopes it will look EXACTLY like the portrayal of the movie, you'd think your company would mandate TONS of reference material to ensure that proportions are consistently correct. I have a friend who works for a major FX studio, who constantly tells me stories about how digital fx artists get lazy and don't bother using reference material. I'm talking about major franchises owned by Disney. Hundreds of millions of dollars can be thrown around, and often artists still get lazy and refrain from accumulating sufficient source material. I heard an anecdote recently that made my head spin.

The new Grand Moff Tarkin is an example of this. We've only seen a front snapshot of the figure's torso, and there are a few easily avoidable mistakes that would have been prevented if reference material was adhered to.

I think it benefits everyone, if people voice those concerns. We win, and Hot Toys wins (so long as they adjust course) in an increasingly competitive market where the value of a figure can be diminished the moment someone else does it better.



Do you have a girlfriend?
 
Luke looks great here, I don't see any issues with the sculpt whatsoever. I do wish they gave us a second hair section for the wind blown action look, it would've gone well with the motion blur lightsaber effect.
 
Can't wait to display this Luke with RO Vader, yeah I know Vader is not screen accurate to Jedi, but who cares :lol
 
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