1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 249 - The Joker (Bank Robber Version 2.0) - 1/6 - TF Exclusive 2014

[DiFabio]

@Jeff

Thing is, there are brand new figures that just went up for order that are the equivalence of this set that are much less.

*ahem*

- 2 heads (all brand new sculpts with LED lights)
- all new figure
- an actual sculpted/detailed base . . . with DX lights
- brand new weapons/accessories save for the .45 long slide
- a true type that is more complex and costly than the standard


$229


And before we get into licensing fees, the Terminator license ain't cheap. The original MMS 136 figure was one of the first characters to push the price range for standard MMS figures at $180, when previous characters like the T-1000 had more bang for it's buck at less the price.

So no excuses really, not for this,

 

[Jeff12burq]

The reality of the situation is, you don't know. You, like most people are assuming that the license is extremely expensive or more expensive than other licences, and it's a logical assumption, I'll give you that, but at the end of the day, you don't work for HT or WB, and you really don't what kind of deal they have with them. Remember, it's not just TDK, HT has multiple deals with them, so who knows? Also, it's true that HT needs WB/DC more than WB needs HT, do not underestimate HT power, because they also have deals with WB main competition, Disney/Marvel, and you can bet HT is using that as leverage. WB is very competitive, and they won't let Disney/Marvel be the only game in town.

You are 100% right. I can't say for sure which one actually costs Hot Toys more.

But lets be realistic here. Hot Toys makes bank off of DK characters and it would only make sense that the license fee would cost more compared to other less popular lines.

Everyone is saying, "No. We don't know 100%. What you are saying is incorrect. Hot Toys are being jerks and raising the price for absolutely no reason other than the fact it's the Joker."

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

But that Terminator doesn't come with the $60 dollar cardboard limited edition base!!

 

[Ropen]

Hot toys makes more off of Marvel than DC. I can go to any toy shop and find dc characters sitting on shelves that sell Hot Toys but would not find marvel characters at all, even then just stop by their forum and look how many marvel hot toys figures they are releasing in the next month compared to Dc's line up. In other words hence why the price of a bootleg Dark Knight screen shot plastered on carboard will cost you 45% of what the figure comes with. Does this joker even have PERS?

But seriously they can't even get blu ray shots.

 

[DiFabio]

Nope, no PERS. No PERS, no Grumpy mask and detonator. Not dozens of hands. No interrogation table, lamp or chair and it costs just as much as the DX 11.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You are 100% right. I can't say for sure which one actually costs Hot Toys more.

But lets be realistic here. Hot Toys makes bank off of DK characters and it would only make sense that the license fee would cost more compared to other less popular lines.

Everyone is saying, "No. We don't know 100%. What you are saying is incorrect. Hot Toys are being jerks and raising the price for absolutely no reason other than the fact it's the Joker."

But, it's not HT, it's SS as far as I can see. You can get the figure for $215 in HK, so the price is still more than the original from 6 years ago, but it's not $270+ Shipping. I don't think a character's popularity should affect the price, but it does, unfortunately. Look at Superman, he's the "face" of WB/DC, yet the figure cost less than the Joker. Now, you can't tell me that the Joker license cost more than Superman, no way. I'm only assuming, because like you, I don't know, but it's a logical assumption.

 

[Ropen]

so with S/H from HK it's still cheaper to import this fig, NICE!

 

[Jeff12burq]

This is DC's most popular line and I'd bet the popularity of Batman is similar to Iron Man, maybe a little less-but definitely more than all other Marvel lines.

And I completely see your point DiFabio, this doesn't have as much accessories compared to the DX11 or Terminator.

But no one has seen how the contract is set up between Hot Toys and DC/WB. A 2.0 version of this figure may not have been written in the contract from the beginning when the license was approved and Hot Toys identified that there was still $$$ to be made if they were to do another version. So, they could've made an offer to DC/WB to allow them the rights to produce a 2.0 and DC/WB could very well have jacked up their fee due to the popularity of the original version, making Hot Toys raise their price. Not saying this is how it went down, but it very well could have or something similar.

 

[Jeff12burq]

But, it's not HT, it's SS as far as I can see. You can get the figure for $215 in HK, so the price is still more than the original from 6 years ago, but it's not $270+ Shipping. I don't think a character's popularity should affect the price, but it does, unfortunately. Look at Superman, he's the "face" of WB/DC, yet the figure cost less than the Joker. Now, you can't tell me that the Joker license cost more than Superman, no way. I'm only assuming, because like you, I don't know, but it's a logical assumption.

Actually I would tell you that

I think there are more Batman collectors than Superman collectors. Based on MOS Superman still being up on SS and at only a $199.99 price tag and the amount of buzz Batman characters get (DX12, DX11, '89 Batman and Joker, Bane, this figure) on this forum compared to MOS line.

But, yeah, I might be wrong.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

so with S/H from HK it's still cheaper to import this fig, NICE!

Not if you buy it from Ebay. They know, and they will ask $300+. That's why they are called scalpers.

 

[Ropen]

It kind of goes like this: Hot toys purchases license from DC for batman/nolan license for 10 years, in those 10 years they could do whatever they want to, release as many times as they want to, hence why you see 2.0 thrown in there. Most of the time is a scam anyways, Hot toys is like any other regular toy company, they will sell you one fig with only hands, but the accessories will come in another fig with PERS for a couple of hundred dollars more. This only hurts completionists who want to get every variation of the line, I only chatted to a couple of people in HK who collect EVERY HT figures that come out, just because it's HT, doesn't matter what figure it is. That's too extreme, but heck if I had that money I would do the same thing, but I would build a mansion just to display them all. There's collectors who even buy one figure for opening, one for posing, one for reselling and one for potential future resell. I just buy two of each, because I know my twins will get ahold of one when they grew up and destroy it, and I will have the other one as back up lol

 

[Ropen]

Not if you buy it from Ebay. They know, and they will ask $300+. That's why they are called scalpers.

I have a friend who can go to asian toy fairs and get it for me personally, I get my imports from him anyway, EMS shipping is like 30usd for hot toys figs either way so it's a win win.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Actually I would tell you that

I think there are more Batman collectors than Superman collectors. Based on MOS Superman still being up on SS and at only a $199.99 price tag and the amount of buzz Batman characters get (DX12, DX11, '89 Batman and Joker, Bane, this figure) on this forum compared to MOS line.

WB doesn't care how many toys HT sells, because to them Superman is the holy grail. Recently, this little kid died and the family wanted to build a statue of him wearing the Superman logo on his chest, and WB immediately said no, it's SUPERMAN...can't do that!! That's how much Superman means to them. Also, another reason Superman is not selling, is Batman V Superman. We'll see a better one next year, so that's has something to do with the sales.

 

[Jeff12burq]

It kind of goes like this: Hot toys purchases license from DC for batman/nolan license for 10 years, in those 10 years they could do whatever they want to, release as many times as they want to, hence why you see 2.0 thrown in there. Most of the time is a scam anyways, Hot toys is like any other regular toy company, they will sell you one fig with only hands, but the accessories will come in another fig with PERS for a couple of hundred dollars more. This only hurts completionists who want to get every variation of the line, I only chatted to a couple of people in HK who collect EVERY HT figures that come out, just because it's HT, doesn't matter what figure it is. That's too extreme, but heck if I had that money I would do the same thing, but I would build a mansion just to display them all. There's collectors who even buy one figure for opening, one for posing, one for reselling and one for potential future resell.

You make some good points, but I highly doubt Hot Toys can do whatever they want. DC/WB are billion dollar companies and want to protect their franchise. They will have a huge say in what can and can't be done.

 

[DarthAlias]

We get it, some don't like the price, then stop posting it over and over again and move on!Some don't mind the price, then sit back and relax. No need to keep bringing up the price issues anymore, good or bad.

 

[Tourist]

We get it, some don't like the price, then stop posting it over and over again and move on!Some don't mind the price, then sit back and relax. No need to keep bringing up the price issues anymore, good or bad.

Well, since you brought up the price I'd like to say that this figure is way too expensive!

 

[MyenShi]

In general, I believe the license holder is paid royalties of about 10-15% for this industry, but that varies based on license demand, popularity, and other factors. We can't say for certain how much HT pays for its premium licenses, but I'm inclined to believe its on the higher end. However, if we go by standard procedures, HT and the licensor would be held to a contract over 2-4 years before renewal, as well as a guarantee for minimum return to the licensor.

So it is technically within HT's best interest to make figures for licenses that they know will sell, because they're going to have to pay back a certain amount for acquiring the license regardless of how well it does or not. If a line is doing poorly, it may be more cost effective to abandon it then try to increase revenue from it, which I believe we've seen from HT on numerous occasions. I could be wrong on that as I'm not a legal expert, but I do run a business and did research all of this before.

It also means sudden spikes in price within a short span are more likely to be at the discretion of HT, unless the contract just happened to be up for renewal between releases and the license holder wanted more royalties.

That said, I honestly think this is a simple matter of HT charging what they think people will pay over what may be considered best value. It's all subjective and honestly conjecture on my part, but I feel they're banking (no pun intended) on the Ledger Joker selling well to people at this price, which means a maximum return for the relatively minimal effort they've expended on the re-issue of this figure.

Just my $.02.

 

[hokietwo]

In general, I believe the license holder is paid royalties of about 10-15% for this industry, but that varies based on license demand, popularity, and other factors. We can't say for certain how much HT pays for its premium licenses, but I'm inclined to believe its on the higher end. However, if we go by standard procedures, HT and the licensor would be held to a contract over 2-4 years before renewal, as well as a guarantee for minimum return to the licensor.

So it is technically within HT's best interest to make figures for licenses that they know will sell, because they're going to have to pay back a certain amount for acquiring the license regardless of how well it does or not. If a line is doing poorly, it may be more cost effective to abandon it then try to increase revenue from it, which I believe we've seen from HT on numerous occasions. I could be wrong on that as I'm not a legal expert, but I do run a business and did research all of this before.

It also means sudden spikes in price within a short span are more likely to be at the discretion of HT, unless the contract just happened to be up for renewal between releases and the license holder wanted more royalties.

That said, I honestly think this is a simple matter of HT charging what they think people will pay over what may be considered best value. It's all subjective and honestly conjecture on my part, but I feel they're banking (no pun intended) on the Ledger Joker selling well to people at this price, which means a maximum return for the relatively minimal effort they've expended on the re-issue of this figure.

Just my $.02.

Everything you are saying makes very good business sense. I think another aspect of them flooding licenses is to raise money for their R&D and support for other licenses. Since it is a private company they are raising their operating capital through sales and probably financed by bank loans.

Dropping a figure like this is a way for them to get the money they need to fund projects. It is unfortunate they bite the hand that feeds setting a higher price and not updating the entire offering (headsculpt). This passes off more as greedy and insulting somewhat for long time collectors. In then end, if the people that missed on the figure are happy to pay for it and the proceeds go to developing other lines, then in a warped way it's somewhat justifiable business for them. (I feel icky writing that last sentense)

 

[Jeff12burq]

In general, I believe the license holder is paid royalties of about 10-15% for this industry, but that varies based on license demand, popularity, and other factors. We can't say for certain how much HT pays for its premium licenses, but I'm inclined to believe its on the higher end. However, if we go by standard procedures, HT and the licensor would be held to a contract over 2-4 years before renewal, as well as a guarantee for minimum return to the licensor.

So it is technically within HT's best interest to make figures for licenses that they know will sell, because they're going to have to pay back a certain amount for acquiring the license regardless of how well it does or not. If a line is doing poorly, it may be more cost effective to abandon it then try to increase revenue from it, which I believe we've seen from HT on numerous occasions. I could be wrong on that as I'm not a legal expert, but I do run a business and did research all of this before.

It also means sudden spikes in price within a short span are more likely to be at the discretion of HT, unless the contract just happened to be up for renewal between releases and the license holder wanted more royalties.That said, I honestly think this is a simple matter of HT charging what they think people will pay over what may be considered best value. It's all subjective and honestly conjecture on my part, but I feel they're banking (no pun intended) on the Ledger Joker selling well to people at this price, which means a maximum return for the relatively minimal effort they've expended on the re-issue of this figure.

Just my $.02.

 

[Adam Scott Photography]

Its like 50 bucks difference. Jesus Christ who gives a ****.