Man of steel, reboot or sequel?

[Vader AL]

Get rid of the Supermans son crap and I am fine with what ever they do.

My thoughts too. If they do not do this then bury it.

 

[DinoLast]

While this thread has a poll there is a "Man of Steel" (the original title of the Singer sequel) thread in Movies/TV with some real serious discussion and argument about this next step DC/WB is taking....

So sorry that I dared to do another Superman thread that is not in keeping with your intellect. Some people can be a little too full themselves on here.

It's nice to have something to talk about on the DC section than just Batman.

By the way I noticed mike started a thread on the 300 sequel about two months after I had already started one. Guess you should live by your own rules

 

[a-dev]

Keep Routh and the John Williams themes, and they can do whatever they want.

I semi agree with this. That is keep Routh and the John williams theme but don't do 'whatever they want' because 'whatever they want' gave superman a kid.

I voted for a SR sequel but I'd add that it must somehow minimalise the child and provide more Superman action.

 

[Moonloop]

"Last week Brandon Routh has come around the offices in New York and Los Angeles as of late to talk about Superman and what we want to do."

https://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=7722

 

[a-dev]

"Last week Brandon Routh has come around the offices in New York and Los Angeles as of late to talk about Superman and what we want to do."

https://www.superherohype.com/news/supermannews.php?id=7722

Good, if routh is still in the running. I think he did well as the S man, it was just the film that didn't serve him very well. And I don't see what people think is so wrong with the Superman Returns suit. I thought it was a great modernisation - why does it matter that the S is smaller for gods sake??????

 

[PRIME]

superman return sequel just kill the kid and superman goes hardcore like the punisher kills everybad guys thatll be cool i think a hardcore superman

 

[artistrex]

Though I voted for a reboot, I would love to see Routh stay on as superman. As for him being too powerful you should read the current Brainiac storyline on action comics, to see that even though superman is all powerful, he can't do everything.

staying with the brainiac idea for a second, the next movie could have superman ebing captured by brainiac, and superman returns could be written off as a delusion by brainiac, to confuse supes.
it's the only way to keep it going without a reboot.

 

[Devil_666]

I voted Reboot. They need to take the BB/TDK route and make the series more realistic and less campy/goofy. But that's the problem: Superman Movies have ALL been campy and goofy when dealing with the alter-ego of Clark Kent. Making him a nerd/klutz (sp!?) to offset him really being Supes. But that's what's never appealed to me. The cartoon did a good job with that portrayal. If the movies copied that tone, approach, pacing I think I'd finally be a fan of the movies. But so far, even the old Superman movies with Christopher Reeves sucked imo. Also.. regardless of what approach the studios decide to take, take this piece of advice: SUPERMAN NEEDS A REAL VILLAIN!!!!

Bizarro would be my choice. That was why the first Hulk sucked: lack of a credible villain. Now look at the recent releases:

Iron Man - Iron Monger
Hulk - Abomination
Even TDK stepped it up with both Joker and Two-Face.

Give Supes Bizarro.. or Braniac. Something.

 

[Krypto]

Since Superman Returns is the best Superman movie (along with Donner's original), I'm definitely all for a sequel and I'm confident that WB will come to their senses and give Singer and Routh a shot at a sequel/reboot. If anything, there might be a stylistic change, but since nothing has happened since Horn's statement (a statement is all it was) and that Routh has been talking with WB, I think we'll get some kind of hybrid between a sequel and a reboot.

I don't understand people's problems with Jason. The character was vital and warranted within the context of the film and future exploits of that character would only serve Superman internally and create more conflict. Those calling for his expulsion from the story or that it was a terrible idea and wrote the story into a corner lack vision and imagination. The truth of the matter is that it gives Singer an almost unlimited amount of stories to tell.

Incredible Hulk has shown us that audiences won't flock to see a reboot only a few years after the initial film. It's a sign of weakness and not having faith in the property. There's one simple fact and that is that Superman Returns made more than Batman Begins. It was well reviewed and liked by the majority of audiences. All in all, it was a pretty successful relaunch. Yes, it cost more than Begins, but that cost was necessary given that it was a bigger film with 1,400+ visual effects and over 100 sets. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's simply ill-logical to decide on a reboot at this point. Give Singer $150 million to make his action-oriented epic Wrath of Khan style. Give him a good release date away from any Pirates sequels and a strong marketing campaign, two things he didn't have the first time, and I guarantee you'll have a big hit on your hands.

 

[Krypto]

I voted Reboot. They need to take the BB/TDK route and make the series more realistic and less campy/goofy. But that's the problem: Superman Movies have ALL been campy and goofy when dealing with the alter-ego of Clark Kent. Making him a nerd/klutz (sp!?) to offset him really being Supes. But that's what's never appealed to me. The cartoon did a good job with that portrayal. If the movies copied that tone, approach, pacing I think I'd finally be a fan of the movies. But so far, even the old Superman movies with Christopher Reeves sucked imo. Also.. regardless of what approach the studios decide to take, take this piece of advice: SUPERMAN NEEDS A REAL VILLAIN!!!!

Bizarro would be my choice. That was why the first Hulk sucked: lack of a credible villain. Now look at the recent releases:

Iron Man - Iron Monger
Hulk - Abomination
Even TDK stepped it up with both Joker and Two-Face.

Give Supes Bizarro.. or Braniac. Something.

Daily Planet Clark is not a real person, he's a character. Superman is playing Clark Kent in the Planet in order to gain information about situations and dissuade anyone who may assume he is Superman. The way that Reeve and Routh have dealed with Clark Kent of the Planet has not been campy or goofy, especially with Routh. It has been light-hearted and slapsticky at times, but not campy.

Also, Singer had planned for a villain like Brainiac in his sequel. The man that made X2 wanted to put Brainiac in a Superman film. Come on. Doesn't that excite you?

 

[Wanderer]

Since Superman Returns is the best Superman movie (along with Donner's original), I'm definitely all for a sequel and I'm confident that WB will come to their senses and give Singer and Routh a shot at a sequel/reboot. If anything, there might be a stylistic change, but since nothing has happened since Horn's statement (a statement is all it was) and that Routh has been talking with WB, I think we'll get some kind of hybrid between a sequel and a reboot.

I don't understand people's problems with Jason. The character was vital and warranted within the context of the film and future exploits of that character would only serve Superman internally and create more conflict. Those calling for his expulsion from the story or that it was a terrible idea and wrote the story into a corner lack vision and imagination. The truth of the matter is that it gives Singer an almost unlimited amount of stories to tell.

Incredible Hulk has shown us that audiences won't flock to see a reboot only a few years after the initial film. It's a sign of weakness and not having faith in the property. There's one simple fact and that is that Superman Returns made more than Batman Begins. It was well reviewed and liked by the majority of audiences. All in all, it was a pretty successful relaunch. Yes, it cost more than Begins, but that cost was necessary given that it was a bigger film with 1,400+ visual effects and over 100 sets. Basically, what I'm saying is that it's simply ill-logical to decide on a reboot at this point. Give Singer $150 million to make his action-oriented epic Wrath of Khan style. Give him a good release date away from any Pirates sequels and a strong marketing campaign, two things he didn't have the first time, and I guarantee you'll have a big hit on your hands.

As much as i respect your fanboy witterings I dont agree at all with your suggestion we 'Lack vision and imagination' just because we believe the Superman secret son plot was a weak and over used idea. Imho its Singer who lacks vision when it comes to superhero properties. There's no denying he is a solid film maker but his films seriously lack spectacle compared to others.

As for Superman Returns being a bigger draw than Begins...think about it, everything was in its favour...it was comparable to the build for Indy IV.

If they stick with Singer then i'm sure he must have had an idea of the direction he was going...however will he be trusted again with such a massive property as this?

 

[Nocturne]

I mean it had a lot in it's favour a great cast (although still not sure on Kate Bosworth) good effects, great sets. They captured the look beautifully. The story just let it down at the end of the day, I left the cinema feeling dissapointed. After waiting for 19 years to see a new film and being a Superman fan since I was 3 (am 24 now and Chris Reeve's films were what made me a fan). Even watching it again over a year later after the hype had died down I still felt dissapointed.

The only bit that really made me smile was the films nod to Action Comics #1 when Superman is lowering Kitty's Car

 

[Ven]

I would want a SR sequel.. thats what I picked, but if they reboot, just keep routh and it would be good.

 

[Krypto]

As much as i respect your fanboy witterings I dont agree at all with your suggestion we 'Lack vision and imagination' just because we believe the Superman secret son plot was a weak and over used idea. Imho its Singer who lacks vision when it comes to superhero properties. There's no denying he is a solid film maker but his films seriously lack spectacle compared to others.

Overused idea? As far as I know, it was a unique situation. Sure, there's many Elseworlds style tales about Superman's family in the comics of yesteryear, but never one that actually gave Superman a son of his own blood. It was original, unique, and brought something extra to the table. The entire film is a redemption story and Jason is the gift he receives for saving billions and redeeming himself personally. Also, it's a nice twist on the story. He spent several years in space looking for his family when it was growing back on Earth the whole time.

As far as Singer goes, with Usual Suspects, X2, and Superman Returns, I think he's shown that he's an excellent director who focuses on the details and can shoot and edit an action sequence like it's nobody's business. I remember two years ago Spielberg was asked which recent action sequences he liked and he raved about the shuttle/plane rescue in Singer's film. And apparently he was a fan of the film, higher production designer Guy Dyas for Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. Superman Returns feels like a true epic, both in physical scale and its connectivity to the emotional core of the story and characters

As for Superman Returns being a bigger draw than Begins...think about it, everything was in its favour...it was comparable to the build for Indy IV.

How so? The comparison with Batman Begins is easily the most logical. Both comic book characters who had had four previous films that fizzled out with the third and four installments, resulting in a lengthy break from movie screens.

 

[Nocturne]

I think Singers main problem was that he didn't explicitly nail down what was being carried over from previous movies. It was marketed as a loose sequel to the Donner films which then made everything a real mess.

It also makes Superman an absentee father, who wont get to really know his son.

It makes Lois look like a whore for immediately jumping into bed with Richard in what must be a matter of weeks after banging Superman in the fortress. Even with the mindwipe from Lester's Superman too, it'd take her from being gaga over Superman to bedding the boss's nephew (or was it son I can't remember)

 

[Krypto]

It was a loose continuation of Donner's film and it played it off as such. Being a different filmmaker with different individual tastes, Singer made his own film while still honoring Donner's. The film has many Donnerisms, but it's a Singer film through and through. "Loose" means that you take the things you like and expand on those themes and leave behind the things you didn't like. Personally, I found the film to be the Superman III I always wanted. But I also think it's the best Superman film. There's more subtext, emotions, and while it may not be as epic, simply because it's not telling an origin story that takes place in vast and different enviroments, it's nevertheless truly grand in scale.

Superman didn't know he had a son for those five or six years. That doesn't make him an absentee father.

I don't see how it makes Lois look like a "whore" as you put it. That's strong. She was obviously hurt when Superman left without telling her and Richard, a kind caring man, came into her life. In a figurative sense she's still with Superman as Richard is basically Superman without the powers in the broadest sense.

 

[Nocturne]

Just calling it like I see it. For Jason to be born during the same period after Superman II she'd have had to have immediately jumped into bed with Richard after Superman left.

Unfortunately the downside of carrying out a saga such as this is if you just pick and choose what you want to keep and what you want to dump it makes it very confusing for the audience, especially a casual audience.
It comes across as a confused movie that doesn't seem to know whether it wants to be a sequel or a reboot. Retconning a franchise as well known and loved as the Superman films was a daring move. But it didn't seem to follow it through totally.

But we're not going to change each others minds, you love the film which was something I wanted to do, but for me it didn't live up to those films I've watched for the past 21 years since I was 3.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Superman didn't know he had a son for those five or six years. That doesn't make him an absentee father.

I argued this with a friend of mine, and he made an off color, but rather good point. How does Superman "forget" that he

Spoiler

came inside of her?

Supes knows what he did. Did that memory-loss kiss work on him too?

 

[garzo]

I argued this with a friend of mine, and he made an off color, but rather good point. How does Superman "forget" that he

Spoiler

came inside of her?

Supes knows what he did. Did that memory-loss kiss work on him too?

Indeed, and if Supes really wanted to, he could have used his X-ray/microscopic vision to see his sperm fertilizing her egg after the act, just like he scoped her after he saved her from the ship to make sure she was OK internally. I enjoyed the movie, but once you begin analyzing it, it really falls apart -- from leaving the Fortress of Solitude wide open for anybody to wander in and steal Kryptonian crystals that have the power to destroy the planet (talk about being careless with potential weapons of mass destruction), to the fact that he flew off on a 5-year mission to find the remains of Krypton just because he read some tiny article in the paper. You'd think his own Kryptonian technology and Jor-el's data bank would offer more info on the fate of Krypton than some newspaper article (I'm ignoring the fact that Luthor may or may not have planted that article as that fact and all mention of Luthor being behind that ruse was cut from the film, so it's not clear whether it should now be considered part of Luthor's plan at all). There are other gaping holes in logic, one could go on and on.

 

[Krypto]

Bringing that kind of detailed scientific logic to a film about a man that flies is a little suspect. I mean, in that sense, you could pick apart any number of fantastical films and ask "why did that happen when this happened and why didn't he/she do this when he/she did the same thing here?"

The basics is that Returns is a very loose continuation of the Donner film. It's very vague, but it keeps what is necessary and moves on and develops characters and themes. The basic concept from a commercial standpoint was to get the franchise back on track more than retconning events. The movie is not a direct sequel at all and trying to pick apart why this does or doesn't affect that isn't really important. It's more that the film uses the Donner film as a stylistic inspiration for the franchise to get it back where it needs to be, which is in the realm of fantastical drama as opposed to all-out slugfest.