pitchin
Red Five
well believe it or not.....there were people bitching, during the 30 mins the grey Hulk was up for preorder, that why should it cost $25 more for grey paint!!!
Not me though
Not me though
The officially unofficial Grey Hulk thread
- Thread starter Chicky
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Winged Shadows
Lost Prophet
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Not really into the Marvel line, but I think it's great for Sideshow to have offered the grey hulk, and especially for keeping it so limited. For those that got one, i hope ya like it loads.
For everyone else that wanted one - comiserations. Just don't pull your hair out over it, it's not too different to the green exclusive. Buy the green one and paint it grey! It can't be that hard.
About the timezones, well people say it went up at 3.00am (uk) time but that ain't no biggie. Pitch was able to get one - so it's all good. He can take one for the team -
Personally, I had no idea this was even going up since i'm not on much here anymore.
I get the feeling quite a few people are crying 'cause of the 50 edition size, and they were hoping for it to pay their mortgage. I hope those people can find some realistic long-term investments.
p.s. Although I ain't been hugely impressed by the Marvel to date, should anyone know of a super-limited comic-version exclusive Phoenix, Mystique, or Venom figure/diorama going up... shoot me a mail!
For everyone else that wanted one - comiserations. Just don't pull your hair out over it, it's not too different to the green exclusive. Buy the green one and paint it grey! It can't be that hard.
About the timezones, well people say it went up at 3.00am (uk) time but that ain't no biggie. Pitch was able to get one - so it's all good. He can take one for the team -
Personally, I had no idea this was even going up since i'm not on much here anymore. I get the feeling quite a few people are crying 'cause of the 50 edition size, and they were hoping for it to pay their mortgage. I hope those people can find some realistic long-term investments.
p.s. Although I ain't been hugely impressed by the Marvel to date, should anyone know of a super-limited comic-version exclusive Phoenix, Mystique, or Venom figure/diorama going up... shoot me a mail!
Morris Fletcher
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A little "outside" perspective for you (and forgive me since I didn't read every single post with a fine-tooth comb, much of it OT anyway) since I am not a SS Marvel collector . . . yet, anyway.
I am a longtime Marvel fan though, and most of the SS pieces are quite amazing. I just don't have the space or money for them. At some point I would love to own at least one just because I admire the work so much, but so far I own none and have none on pre-order. Just a little caveat so you know I'm not sour grapes for not being able to get Gray Hulk or whatever.
So what I think is the most perplexing thing about this (and more broadly speaking, exclusive collectibles in general) is that if obviously more than 50 collectors want one, why not make more? This is not some obscure, 14th tier Star Wars character with .093 seconds of screen time. This is the Hulk.
Ask yourself: wouldn't YOU gladly take THREE HUNDRED BUCKS from anyone who's offering? The molds and toolings are identical, the different paint adds no tremendous extra cost, so why not get a better gauge as far as what % of the fanbase actually want one?
Not totally give it away, since I agree part of the excitement about collecting is the unveiling of new product and the nice element of surprise, but for example, Sideshow could run a few polls asking fans general Marvel questions: "In general, what costume designs do you consider yourself more of a fan of: Golden Age, Silver Age, Modern Age, Ultimate, etc.?" "What are some of your favorite comic book artists from Marvel's history?" And then: "Do you prefer Green Hulk, Gray Hulk, "Smart" Hulk?"
And so on. Had they done anything along those lines (or just used common sense, heh) they'd know that the gray version of the Hulk is quite popular among adult collectors. Sure, the average joe would always think of Hulk as green, and yes, it definitely makes sense for Green to be the standard version, but as far as fans are concerned, Gray Hulk is definitely NOT the 'Ben Reilly as Spider-Man' version.
That being said, 50 is just a stupid number. Sorry. No collectible should be limited to 50. Sorry for the bluntness.
To be fair, yes this is a very high-end, very expensive item, and many of the fans complaining now might have never bought one anyway, or cancelled their pre-order last minute when they think about how much $300 plus shipping really is, but if SS really believes that only 50 fans really want one (or worse, only 50 "deserve" one) then I am baffled.
Maybe there's something we're missing, like some logistical explanation of why only 50 could be made?
Also, I don't think it's wise for SS to encourage (unwittingly or not) the increasing unhealthy attitudes of these collectibles being like stocks or something.
You should buy them for the love of the property, or the appreciation of the sculpture, or what have you . . . not because of what it might be worth, or wow I'm such a lucky geek to only have one out of blahblahblah. To me, that goes completely against what art (yes, even though pop culture based and collectible in nature, it's art) and sculpture should be about. The fact that there are people out there who buy up stuff like this and hoard them (unopened) for the purposes of selling them later for a profit makes me depressed for those people in a major way.
I personally couldn't care less about ES's. The only significance they have for me is how soon I need to buy them (if under 1000 or whatever, need to purchase soon, if 5000+, no particular rush, etc.) and as I say, those that worry so much about ES's are missing the point and need to find another hobby or something to help channel that excess energy elsewhere.
Remember: these collectibles are limited not to make us feel "special," nor are they limited to naturally or artificially inflate their value.
They are limited because, generally speaking, THEY WON'T SELL much more than their edition sizes, if even that.
But 50? You can sell more than 50 of ANYTHING, and for that, I think SS kind of brought this one on themselves.
And sorry if this reads too negative. It's just that sometimes there seems to be way too much BS getting in the way of something that should be so simple to my mind:
1. Fans have love and/or obsession for a property
2. Company finds sculptor whose passion for that same property is matched only by their marvelous artistic craft
3. Sculptor creates piece
4. Company mass-produces and sells piece to fans
5. Everyone basks in collective geek heaven
6. Repeat Steps 1-5
P.S. Sideshow's products in general keep getting better and better, and they are an industry leader, truly raising the bar as far as high end, museum quality TV and film collectibles go, and deserve special mention for pushing the envelope where scale, detail, and mixed media are concerned. Keep it up!
I am a longtime Marvel fan though, and most of the SS pieces are quite amazing. I just don't have the space or money for them. At some point I would love to own at least one just because I admire the work so much, but so far I own none and have none on pre-order. Just a little caveat so you know I'm not sour grapes for not being able to get Gray Hulk or whatever.
So what I think is the most perplexing thing about this (and more broadly speaking, exclusive collectibles in general) is that if obviously more than 50 collectors want one, why not make more? This is not some obscure, 14th tier Star Wars character with .093 seconds of screen time. This is the Hulk.
Ask yourself: wouldn't YOU gladly take THREE HUNDRED BUCKS from anyone who's offering? The molds and toolings are identical, the different paint adds no tremendous extra cost, so why not get a better gauge as far as what % of the fanbase actually want one?
Not totally give it away, since I agree part of the excitement about collecting is the unveiling of new product and the nice element of surprise, but for example, Sideshow could run a few polls asking fans general Marvel questions: "In general, what costume designs do you consider yourself more of a fan of: Golden Age, Silver Age, Modern Age, Ultimate, etc.?" "What are some of your favorite comic book artists from Marvel's history?" And then: "Do you prefer Green Hulk, Gray Hulk, "Smart" Hulk?"
And so on. Had they done anything along those lines (or just used common sense, heh) they'd know that the gray version of the Hulk is quite popular among adult collectors. Sure, the average joe would always think of Hulk as green, and yes, it definitely makes sense for Green to be the standard version, but as far as fans are concerned, Gray Hulk is definitely NOT the 'Ben Reilly as Spider-Man' version.
That being said, 50 is just a stupid number. Sorry. No collectible should be limited to 50. Sorry for the bluntness.
To be fair, yes this is a very high-end, very expensive item, and many of the fans complaining now might have never bought one anyway, or cancelled their pre-order last minute when they think about how much $300 plus shipping really is, but if SS really believes that only 50 fans really want one (or worse, only 50 "deserve" one) then I am baffled.
Maybe there's something we're missing, like some logistical explanation of why only 50 could be made?
Also, I don't think it's wise for SS to encourage (unwittingly or not) the increasing unhealthy attitudes of these collectibles being like stocks or something.
You should buy them for the love of the property, or the appreciation of the sculpture, or what have you . . . not because of what it might be worth, or wow I'm such a lucky geek to only have one out of blahblahblah. To me, that goes completely against what art (yes, even though pop culture based and collectible in nature, it's art) and sculpture should be about. The fact that there are people out there who buy up stuff like this and hoard them (unopened) for the purposes of selling them later for a profit makes me depressed for those people in a major way.
I personally couldn't care less about ES's. The only significance they have for me is how soon I need to buy them (if under 1000 or whatever, need to purchase soon, if 5000+, no particular rush, etc.) and as I say, those that worry so much about ES's are missing the point and need to find another hobby or something to help channel that excess energy elsewhere.
Remember: these collectibles are limited not to make us feel "special," nor are they limited to naturally or artificially inflate their value.
They are limited because, generally speaking, THEY WON'T SELL much more than their edition sizes, if even that.
But 50? You can sell more than 50 of ANYTHING, and for that, I think SS kind of brought this one on themselves.
And sorry if this reads too negative. It's just that sometimes there seems to be way too much BS getting in the way of something that should be so simple to my mind:
1. Fans have love and/or obsession for a property
2. Company finds sculptor whose passion for that same property is matched only by their marvelous artistic craft
3. Sculptor creates piece
4. Company mass-produces and sells piece to fans
5. Everyone basks in collective geek heaven
6. Repeat Steps 1-5
P.S. Sideshow's products in general keep getting better and better, and they are an industry leader, truly raising the bar as far as high end, museum quality TV and film collectibles go, and deserve special mention for pushing the envelope where scale, detail, and mixed media are concerned. Keep it up!
Viking28
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AM I the only one that thinks of this as a "prize" type thing? Kind of a "guess what your one of the first to purchase this here is your prize kind of thing"?
THATS why the 50 edition size makes sense to me, it was a "guess what its your lucky day type thing".
I dont know to me it makes perfect sense why they would do it.
So Morris I disagree with you.
THATS why the 50 edition size makes sense to me, it was a "guess what its your lucky day type thing".
I dont know to me it makes perfect sense why they would do it.
So Morris I disagree with you.
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
I agree people missing the point of this item is at the source of the problem.
Is not about getting a Gray Hulk version Ex out to fans. Is about getting the fans talking and anticipating the next releases going forward. I assure you the newsletter is going to become more important than ever before not just for Marvel items but for any item. People will be parnoid Thursday nights. That F5 button will wear out in your keyboard.
If you got a Gray Hulk then great. Congrats. Pass the word how cool these things are. Don't let our diorama exclusives sit there for months waiting to sell out. Tell your statue friends about how this line is freaking awesome.
That is why they did it. If some of you understand that then the feeling of betrayal and the sense of disappointment would go away quicker. Then we can move all move on after 4 days.
Is not about you. It's about Sideshow generating interest from outside their current buyers. And yes, unfortunately some will be scalpers. This stunt made the statement they wanted: pay attention...we can do anything...we can release anything and surprise you.
Is not about getting a Gray Hulk version Ex out to fans. Is about getting the fans talking and anticipating the next releases going forward. I assure you the newsletter is going to become more important than ever before not just for Marvel items but for any item. People will be parnoid Thursday nights. That F5 button will wear out in your keyboard.
If you got a Gray Hulk then great. Congrats. Pass the word how cool these things are. Don't let our diorama exclusives sit there for months waiting to sell out. Tell your statue friends about how this line is freaking awesome.
That is why they did it. If some of you understand that then the feeling of betrayal and the sense of disappointment would go away quicker. Then we can move all move on after 4 days.
Is not about you. It's about Sideshow generating interest from outside their current buyers. And yes, unfortunately some will be scalpers. This stunt made the statement they wanted: pay attention...we can do anything...we can release anything and surprise you.
Chicky
SSC VIP Goddess
Originally Posted by Bullseye
PST??? Again i think you need to give us a time in stone (newsletter posting). BTW why the change of time?
As I mentioned in my post, unfortunaelty we can not do that. If for some reason we are running against time because of a shift in schedule, information or lack of pictures, we might breach a set time, which would cause more negative feedback. To my knowledge there aren't many companies which guarantee a time windo much less a specific time.
My initial post to this thread discussed that the time shift was based upon collector feedback. Although we would like all of our collectors to receive the information at the same time, realistically this is impossible. Therefore we post based upon a reasonable PST time for a majority of collectors as well as for our in-house staff.
Some board members have stated that the forum board is more reliable than the newsletter, "so why offer a newsletter?" I can not quite fathom the logic behind this statement unless it was made by a new newsletter member. However, this has been added to a list of reviewed collector feedback. Although, I am not sure of the wisdom of pre-ordering using the "force" and feel the majority of the newsletter members do find value in it.
This particular Grey paint variant was not an experiment nor meant as a news grabber. It was a unique offer for newsletter members, whose link was released to newsletter members first. Our collectors continue to discuss the appropriate size of editions, which probably will never be resolved to everyones satisfaction. If you make enough items to satisfy all collectors who are interested, then is it really a Limited Edition product?
Should we have used a lottery system? Should we have based the offer on $ spent with us? We think both methods limit the collector's chance of obtaining an item this way, however we will watchfor feedback on these points as well!
Again,we appreciate the input and hope people will return to our originial thread so we can keep the feedback some what organized and easier to review!
Best,
Chicky
PST??? Again i think you need to give us a time in stone (newsletter posting). BTW why the change of time?
As I mentioned in my post, unfortunaelty we can not do that. If for some reason we are running against time because of a shift in schedule, information or lack of pictures, we might breach a set time, which would cause more negative feedback. To my knowledge there aren't many companies which guarantee a time windo much less a specific time.
My initial post to this thread discussed that the time shift was based upon collector feedback. Although we would like all of our collectors to receive the information at the same time, realistically this is impossible. Therefore we post based upon a reasonable PST time for a majority of collectors as well as for our in-house staff.
Some board members have stated that the forum board is more reliable than the newsletter, "so why offer a newsletter?" I can not quite fathom the logic behind this statement unless it was made by a new newsletter member. However, this has been added to a list of reviewed collector feedback. Although, I am not sure of the wisdom of pre-ordering using the "force" and feel the majority of the newsletter members do find value in it.
This particular Grey paint variant was not an experiment nor meant as a news grabber. It was a unique offer for newsletter members, whose link was released to newsletter members first. Our collectors continue to discuss the appropriate size of editions, which probably will never be resolved to everyones satisfaction. If you make enough items to satisfy all collectors who are interested, then is it really a Limited Edition product?
Should we have used a lottery system? Should we have based the offer on $ spent with us? We think both methods limit the collector's chance of obtaining an item this way, however we will watchfor feedback on these points as well!
Again,we appreciate the input and hope people will return to our originial thread so we can keep the feedback some what organized and easier to review!
Best,
Chicky
lcummins
Universal MODster
Chicky said:
I completely understand that and kind of figured that was the reason, but would it be possible for Sideshow to state an "unofficial" set time with the caveat that it could be later, but never earlier? For example, whenever possible, the newsletter would be released at 7PM PST with the understanding that it could always be later, but would never be released earlier without prior warning. At least we all wouldn't have to be on the server refreshing before a set time that way.
Thanks for listening to our suggestions, and I know Sideshow will try to find a way to satisfy most of it's collectors whenever possible.
Lonnie
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Thanks Chicky for your response. It must be frustrating when you try to do something cool for your customers and some people ruin it for everyone.
I think many on this board would encourage you to do more things that are ultra exclusive in the future.
I think many on this board would encourage you to do more things that are ultra exclusive in the future.
oxbeard
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Chicky said:
I find it difficult to understand how people could suggest the newsletter is useless as well. Sure a lot of people found out about the grey Hulk as well as other preorders from posts on the various boards, but where do you think those original posters got their info? I would imagine they were posting about what they originally found in the newsletter, just that they read it first.
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
I see great value in the newsletter. It has become crucial in order to get in on the exclusives.
I hope the Limited Exclusives become clearer to order though.
I hope the Limited Exclusives become clearer to order though.
Alice Adrenochrome
Super Freak
Chicky,
If I'd known that the Gray Hulk would have been up for preorder at 3AM (or whatever time it was in Europe), I would have been in front of my computer! Problem is, I didn't know! Yet, I did read the newsletter, and I listened to the podcast! Was I to late? Perhaps. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to what was said in the podcast. Could be. Still, I missed the information. But, if SSC has a priority-pre-order coming up, everybody knows about it at least one week ahead! What I'm asking for, is if you got something coming, please make sure people know WHAT is coming, and WHEN it is coming. Thanks.
If I'd known that the Gray Hulk would have been up for preorder at 3AM (or whatever time it was in Europe), I would have been in front of my computer! Problem is, I didn't know! Yet, I did read the newsletter, and I listened to the podcast! Was I to late? Perhaps. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention to what was said in the podcast. Could be. Still, I missed the information. But, if SSC has a priority-pre-order coming up, everybody knows about it at least one week ahead! What I'm asking for, is if you got something coming, please make sure people know WHAT is coming, and WHEN it is coming. Thanks.
Morris Fletcher
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Chicky said:
I agree, and "all collectors who are interested" is indeed a most difficult figure to land upon anyway.
But there is a huge gap between "all collectors" and fifty collectors, with a reasonable middle ground surely possible. Anything that limited (especially something as recognizable to fans as Gray Hulk) will always cause problems. Just ask the JL collectors about Mattel's "gift" Hal Jordan figure.
It just doesn't make sense to me to say "thank you" to your fans/supporters by giving them something most will likely sell on eBay once the secondary market value is enticing enough.
Lastly, I do agree with someone else's sentiment somewhere in this thread or forum that if another Gray Hulk piece is eventually released by SS that it becomes much less of an issue altogether.
SolidLiquidFox
doing it...for all of us
Morris Fletcher said:
The key factors here are:
1. How many people paid attention to the podcast?
2. How many were clever enough to guess the newsletter may be up that same night by past patterns?
3. How many used the forums for info and kept on top of it with fanboyish anxiety because you just knew it was coming?
...and most importantly...
4. How many know the comics and had a genuine interest in the possibility of Gray Hulk in a Martin Canale Vs diorama?
"Something as recognizable as Gray Hulk"? You are kidding, right? I wonder how many casual Sideshow Marvel line customers just know what Gray Hulk is all about. How many were into any of those 4 groups I listed above?
Darklord Dave
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We've seen a number of people here, some Marvel collectors, ask about the significance of a grey Hulk, so obviously not everyone was looking for or expecting this type of exclusive.
Perhaps they should have everyone's computer tied to an electroshock device that delivers a shock to those trying to place an order. Only those that endure the pain the longest get to order. That would really show who wants it the most...
Perhaps they should have everyone's computer tied to an electroshock device that delivers a shock to those trying to place an order. Only those that endure the pain the longest get to order. That would really show who wants it the most...
Chicky said:
Of course the newsletter has value, I'm just saying the forum is more reliable in letting people know about exclusives. Sideshow may insist it's not an exclusive, but by it's very edition size, wouldn't you say it's an exclusive?
Logic explained:
1) Newsletter supposed to give us heads up on exclusives.
2) Newsletter for past few week established pattern: pre-order date/time given.
3) Newsletter posted, but because we're conditioned to assume any pre-orders would occur on Friday, some read through newsletter to check out Sideshow's other cool stuff and actually miss the order even though they USED the newsletter. Newsletter in this instance actually DID the exact opposite of its intended purpose, no?
4) In contrast, forum news cuts to the chase and let's people know there is an EXCLUSIVE available and even provides a direct link.
5) Let's assume a person walks in and out of his out at 5, 6, 7, 8, or pm on Thursday night, which would you recommend he do...go and check on Sideshow's site or check out the forum--when the real exclusive is only 50ES?
Anakin
Super Freak
Darklord Dave said:
..rotfl!..that's funny,, I know some ppl that would tie and glue themselfs on the shock device and never let it go!...
Morris Fletcher
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SolidLiquidFox said:
Ah, but a "casual" fan isn't likely to drop $300+ on a HUGE diorama statue anyway.
And no one can say that the white "Resurrected" Elektra is more familiar to fans than Gray Hulk, and she has five times the number of pieces.
All I'm saying is 50 is too low a number for anything, and as I see it is the true factor contributing to the situation we have: more than a few fans disappointed they missed out, and the potential for eBay profits in the future which will make this a topic of conversation for some time to come.
Also as I said before, the "Wow, neato! I'm only one of _____ in the UNIVERSE that owns this! I RULE!" attitudes annoy me to no end, LOL.
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