South California, The 51st State... Really?

[The Mike]

Have you read what is going on in Mexico lately, the drug wars, officials and officers missing, killed, the citizens terrorized. Not over the entire country of course but enough of it where I doubt the US would want to really annex anything at this point even if that were an actual option. Would you want to adopt that?

Looking at the map it looks like Orange County would be in South California....that sucks....we'd lose Disneyland.

 

[bumblebee]

This country would fall apart if all the so-called "illegal" immigrants were deported...
THINK for a second...


The reason there are drugs smuggled here is because the huge quantity of U.S. consumers...
All the drug violence is promoted by consumption, and guns provided by those who support them...



How so? Please elaborate... Illegal immigrants rarely use Social Security or Insurance systems...



It wasn't meant as an insult, just stating some facts...

SO called? There here illegally, they don't have any documentation to be here thus they are illegals.



They drain our system cause they (example) cause a car accident and don't have insurance(we pay for that) or go into a hospital without insurance(bill gets passed onto us). Alot of illegals end up in our jails and that cost us taxpayers...and so on and so on.

 

[devilof76]

Have you read what is going on in Mexico lately, the drug wars, officials and officers missing, killed, the citizens terrorized. Not over the entire country of course but enough of it where I doubt the US would want to really annex anything at this point even if that were an actual option. Would you want to adopt that?

I'm just throwing the concept out there. Seems there's little interest in Mexicans abandoning their national identity while being present in this country. I wonder how appealing the converse would be. If Mexico functioned under the U.S. legal system, the problems that are brimming over down there would not exist. But it wouldn't be Mexico anymore, would it?

Seems like a have the cake/eat the cake dilemma and those whose responsibility it is to make the choice would rather cry victim and point the finger at those who won't pretend the cake can be had and eaten simultaneously.

 

[Kuzeh]

SO called? There here illegally, they don't have any documentation to be here thus they are illegals.

Sorry, no human being is illegal... besides, there's some "legals" that do far worse things... does it make it right because they have papers?

They drain our system cause they (example) cause a car accident and don't have insurance(we pay for that) or go into a hospital without insurance(bill gets passed onto us). Alot of illegals end up in our jails and that cost us taxpayers...and so on and so on.

Again, there's plenty of US citizens that do the same, does it make it OK just because they are citizens?...

I'm just throwing the concept out there. Seems there's little interest in Mexicans abandoning their national identity while being present in this country.

Why should they?

I wonder how appealing the converse would be. If Mexico functioned under the U.S. legal system, the problems that are brimming over down there would not exist. But it wouldn't be Mexico anymore, would it?

There's no way of knowing that... specially since there's plenty of corruption here as well...

 

[Project_A]

Sorry, no human being is illegal... besides, there's some "legals" that do far worse things... does it make it right because they have papers?




Again, there's plenty of US citizens that do the same, does it make it OK just because they are citizens?...

 

[bumblebee]

Sorry, no human being is illegal... besides, there's some "legals" that do far worse things... does it make it right because they have papers?




Again, there's plenty of US citizens that do the same, does it make it OK just because they are citizens?...

WOW! You just either missed the point or just can't accept it.

 

[Deckard]

I agree with the overall idea Kuzeh is talking about but their are people here illegaly. You can't argue that particular point imo.

Fact is if you follow U.S. Law, which I assume you do to an extent, you have the right to your property. Your house, and people can't simply wonder into your house whenever they want and say, hey man, I'm human, it's our earth. By that same standard, the country with those laws has a border and to come into it without letting people know etc, is illegal. My personal concern is not to mexicans, I could care less about that and agree they do do jobs most don't want, but if we abolish that system and just let anyone in anytime, it does create a threat to us from global terror. There is a system to "check-in" and it should be followed.

 

[The Mike]

It's an interesting social dynamic. In the US we have the melting pot idea running around where there are parts in major parts of the cities were people don't even speak English. Now I agree you need to hold your identity close to your chest but to not bother even learning the language seems ridiculous. If I moved to Germany or Spain and decided to never learn German or Spanish, I'd be looked at as a stupid _______ who was arrogant for expecting my environment to change for me, yet here if I was from China and didn't want to or never learned English depending on where I lived I'd find plenty of help in Mandarin from Government officials even.

Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't keep their own cultural identities but I do firmly believe that if you live in an area where the actual language is different than your own, you need to at minimum learn it.

 

[devilof76]

Sorry, no human being is illegal... besides, there's some "legals" that do far worse things... does it make it right because they have papers?

There are immigrants who bust their asses to be here legally. Then there are those who stroll right in as if they own the place.

Does it make it right because they don't have papers? No one is defending criminals on the basis that they are legal citizens. The issue is that there are people who are deriving benefit from a system that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

It should be very easy to become a U.S. citizen. It's not, and that's wrong. The solution is not to create an anonymous demographic that exists completely off the grid. Not unless the purpose of such vast numbers of undocumented occupants is subversion.

Again, there's plenty of US citizens that do the same, does it make it OK just because they are citizens?...

No. The benefit shouldn't exist in the first place. It shouldn't be an option to shift the burden to those who do not choose to carry it, and if it were not available to the legals, it would not be available to the illegals either. Another step toward solving the problem...

 

[bumblebee]

There are immigrants who bust their asses to be here legally. Then there are those who stroll right in as if they own the place.

Does it make it right because they don't have papers? No one is defending criminals on the basis that they are legal citizens. The issue is that there are people who are deriving benefit from a system that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

It should be very easy to become a U.S. citizen. It's not, and that's wrong. The solution is not to create an anonymous demographic that exists completely off the grid. Not unless the purpose of such vast numbers of undocumented occupants is subversion.



No. The benefit shouldn't exist in the first place. It shouldn't be an option to shift the burden to those who do not choose to carry it, and if it were not available to the legals, it would not be available to the illegals either. Another step toward solving the problem...

 

[pixletwin]

There are immigrants who bust their asses to be here legally. Then there are those who stroll right in as if they own the place.

Does it make it right because they don't have papers? No one is defending criminals on the basis that they are legal citizens. The issue is that there are people who are deriving benefit from a system that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

It should be very easy to become a U.S. citizen. It's not, and that's wrong. The solution is not to create an anonymous demographic that exists completely off the grid. Not unless the purpose of such vast numbers of undocumented occupants is subversion.



No. The benefit shouldn't exist in the first place. It shouldn't be an option to shift the burden to those who do not choose to carry it, and if it were not available to the legals, it would not be available to the illegals either. Another step toward solving the problem...

 

[Project_A]

There are immigrants who bust their asses to be here legally. Then there are those who stroll right in as if they own the place.

Does it make it right because they don't have papers? No one is defending criminals on the basis that they are legal citizens. The issue is that there are people who are deriving benefit from a system that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

It should be very easy to become a U.S. citizen. It's not, and that's wrong. The solution is not to create an anonymous demographic that exists completely off the grid. Not unless the purpose of such vast numbers of undocumented occupants is subversion.



No. The benefit shouldn't exist in the first place. It shouldn't be an option to shift the burden to those who do not choose to carry it, and if it were not available to the legals, it would not be available to the illegals either. Another step toward solving the problem...

That is true.

 

[KitFisto]

This thread would have been fine with the board admin as long as conservatives were being bashed. Once conservatives speak up the thread is no longer acceptable.

 

[Solidus]

You don't see how cutting a debt heavy part of the state from an economically healthy but over burdened part makes sense economically?

I agree. Southern California has been pulling down the rest of the state for a few decades now, and something has to be done to stop the bleeding. The mass number of illegal immigrants are mostly to blame, especially when they keep draining medicare and other tax-payer funded social programs (programs, that they don't pay into like the rest of society).

 

[The Craw]

that's cuz conservatives suck ____.

 

[Kuzeh]

I agree with the overall idea Kuzeh is talking about but their are people here illegaly. You can't argue that particular point imo.

Thanks, just trying to put things in perspective... I do however think that not having papers is a VERY risky move, but as the saying goes:
"I'd rather die fighting, than starving"

Fact is if you follow U.S. Law, which I assume you do to an extent, you have the right to your property. Your house, and people can't simply wonder into your house whenever they want and say, hey man, I'm human, it's our earth. By that same standard, the country with those laws has a border and to come into it without letting people know etc, is illegal. My personal concern is not to mexicans, I could care less about that and agree they do do jobs most don't want, but if we abolish that system and just let anyone in anytime, it does create a threat to us from global terror. There is a system to "check-in" and it should be followed.

I agree there has to be a system... the idealist in me would love to ban borders and people acting with respect, but that will not happen. Still, the current system is broken, and law-makers have NO interest to fix it...

Now I'm not saying that people shouldn't keep their own cultural identities but I do firmly believe that if you live in an area where the actual language is different than your own, you need to at minimum learn it.

I completely agree... but not all of these immigrants can afford classes, some cannot even read in Spanish!...
and if they go to state-run ones, they are "abusing the system"

There are immigrants who bust their asses to be here legally. Then there are those who stroll right in as if they own the place.

I am here legally, so I understand where both parts are coming from... but you can't just kick-out all the people that have no papers...

Does it make it right because they don't have papers? No one is defending criminals on the basis that they are legal citizens. The issue is that there are people who are deriving benefit from a system that the rest of us are forced to pay for.

You are not forced to pay for it... you decide to do it, because it's your country and you want to live here...

It should be very easy to become a U.S. citizen. It's not, and that's wrong. The solution is not to create an anonymous demographic that exists completely off the grid. Not unless the purpose of such vast numbers of undocumented occupants is subversion.

Believe me, I know...
I've been living here since 2003 under working visa, and I've paid THOUSANDS of dollars to get a U.S. residence, and they just keep stalling it... you know why? Because I'm Mexican... mexicans are the lasts on the list to get resident visas...
I honestly don't think Mexicans are plotting against the government ala Machete movie...

No. The benefit shouldn't exist in the first place. It shouldn't be an option to shift the burden to those who do not choose to, and if it were not available to the legals, it would not be available to the illegals either. Another step toward solving the problem...

I agree with this...
it's just the profiling that upsets me... not all mexicans are delinquents...

that's cuz conservatives suck ____.

!

 

[KitFisto]

that's cuz conservatives suck ____.

Nah, liberals are way more prone to that type of thing.

 

[The Mike]

I completely agree... but not all of these immigrants can afford classes, some cannot even read in Spanish!...
and if they go to state-run ones, they are "abusing the system"

Personally as a US Tax paying citizen I would have absolutely no problem with a government funded English literacy program for all. I doubt you'd fine too many people who'd be opposed to it as well.

 

[The Craw]

i say let the so called "Illegal" immigrants live here. we let republicans live here.

 

[bumblebee]

Nah, liberals are way more prone to that type of thing.

In fact they got it legalized in a few states sadly.