Recast PFs, IM and dioramas (Xenomorph)

[emceerice]

It's OUR responsibility as consumers to be informed. Why does SS need to take time out of their busy schedule to hold our hands and tell us what to buy and what not to buy? They supply us with a product in their name and straight from their website. if you are going to buy on the secondary market it is up to YOU to buy the right thing. If you bought straight through SS you wouldnt have anything to worry about would you?

I don't dispute that customers need to be educated, but tell that to kibishi who did all the research he could and still ended up with a fake. Round leg/head pegs were the differentiating factor? Thats a tough $900 pill to swallow.

Other collectible companies offer 'something'...and whether or not its easily faked and replicated is moot. The fact is that there IS something.

But like I said, I dont dispute your argument, I was merely curious of your previous statement of "SS is doing all they can". Because personally, I think there is room for improvement.

 

[nash]

I don't dispute that customers need to be educated, but tell that to kibishi who did all the research he could and still ended up with a fake. Round leg/head pegs were the differentiating factor? Thats a tough $900 pill to swallow.

Other collectible companies offer 'something'...and whether or not its easily faked and replicated is moot. The fact is that there IS something.

But like I said, I dont dispute your argument, I was merely curious of your previous statement of "SS is doing all they can". Because personally, I think there is room for improvement.

SS is doing all they can. Like i said, they supply us with their product directly through their own channel. This is 100% fool proof to get an authentic product.

If youre going to buy something from a complete stranger on Ebay or any other secondary market avenue, then that is YOUR risk, not Sideshow's.

If youre that paranoid or sour about buying a recast, then perhaps don't take the risk and buy from complete strangers? You missed out on something direct from sideshow? then move on to something else and not take the chance of getting a $900 recast.

Just because SS slaps on a 1 cent hologram or paper COA to their product isnt going to change the fact that recasts will continue to exist. And ironically these holograms and COAs if replicated properly will make it that much more confusing and harder for us to distinguish between what is authentic and what is fake.

 

[emceerice]

SS is doing all they can. Like i said, they supply us with their product directly through their own channel. This is 100% fool proof to get an authentic product.

If youre going to buy something from a complete stranger on Ebay or any other secondary market avenue, then that is YOUR risk, not Sideshow's.

If youre that paranoid or sour about buying a recast, then perhaps don't take the risk and buy from complete strangers? You missed out on something direct from sideshow? then move on to something else and not take the chance of getting a $900 recast.

Just because SS slaps on a 1 cent hologram or paper COA to their product isnt going to change the fact that recasts will continue to exist. And ironically these holograms and COAs if replicated properly will make it that much more confusing and harder for us to distinguish between what is authentic and what is fake.

So the "if you buy it second hand, you're on your own" argument, to me, holds less water in this case simply because of the nature of the product. Sideshow produces and sells collectibles. Which by nature and definition are highly collectible. If you could not turn around a year later and sell your item for at the very least what you paid for it (and in most cases, for much more than what you paid), would you have purchased it in the first place?

Sideshow engages in this market and they reap the benefits of being a collectible. So to play in the game and enjoy the rewards, you have to man up to the reprocautions. And in this case that means recasts and fakes. So whether or not you believe they are responsible for helping to protect their customers, is a personal opinion. I'm just expressing mine.

 

[Mesa]

just catching up on the latest of this thread, but if you've been a member on this site for more than a few months and into Marvel, and you haven't heard about the several marvel fakes, you probably don't read the boards often enough or aren't paying attention.

No offense, but now more than ever before, I wouldn't even consider buying any of the pieces that have been recasted. Unfortunate, but its true.

 

[Mesa]

No offense, but now more than ever before, I wouldn't even consider buying any of the pieces that have been recasted. Unfortunate, but its true.

That's why recasting kills part of the hobby.

 

[Kibishii]

Just because SS slaps on a 1 cent hologram or paper COA to their product isnt going to change the fact that recasts will continue to exist. And ironically these holograms and COAs if replicated properly will make it that much more confusing and harder for us to distinguish between what is authentic and what is fake.

I agree with this 100%, any collectibles market will have counterfeits and counterfeiters (sp?) will continue to create more "authentic" appearing fakes. When I bought the IM comiquette, I knew I was taking a 'risk,' but I did all the homework I could have done at the time. Counterfeiters are getting GOOD; I think the Xenomorph mess shows just how good. However, I would support ANY added security measures that Sideshow can create to make recasting more difficult.

...if you've been a member on this site for more than a few months and into Marvel, and you haven't heard about the several marvel fakes, you probably don't read the boards often enough or aren't paying attention.

I've been a member for quite awhile and knew that there were IM fakes. I also asked the seller MANY questions, requested MANY pictures, and looked for all of the signs of a true IM comiquette. At the time that I bought mine, no where on the boards (that I recall) mentioned aluminum pegs vs. copper pegs. The problem is that recasters are getting that good at replicating and with shops like Xenomorph's focusing on JUST MAKING perfect recasts, no one can be 100% anymore.

 

[Mesa]

I've been a member for quite awhile and knew that there were IM fakes. I also asked the seller MANY questions, requested MANY pictures, and looked for all of the signs of a true IM comiquette. At the time that I bought mine, no where on the boards (that I recall) mentioned aluminum pegs vs. copper pegs. The problem is that recasters are getting that good at replicating.

I also agree, it's been tougher and tougher to distinguish the IM Comiquette apart from the fakes. The Hulk Spiderman have been much easier to see, but as when I entered the hobby, there were already recasts, so I avoided it. Looking back, I think I got into the hobby just before recasts were a risk.

That's why the more recasts I hear/see evidence about, the more I hate the fact that it exists at all.

 

[nash]

So the "if you buy it second hand, you're on your own" argument, to me, holds less water in this case simply because of the nature of the product. Sideshow produces and sells collectibles. Which by nature and definition are highly collectible. If you could not turn around a year later and sell your item for at the very least what you paid for it (and in most cases, for much more than what you paid), would you have purchased it in the first place?

Doesn't hold water? I don't see the point you are trying to make with this statement.
It seems that you want Sideshow to hold your hand and take too much responsibility for YOUR actions. Not to mention, Sideshow doesn't make one cent by you purchasing an Iron Man Comiquette from Joe Schmoe on Ebay for triple or quadruple the MSRP.

I'd like to know of any other collectible type and company that would go through such lengths to ensure that you buy an authentic product when you're purchasing it from complete strangers online? Baseball cards? Comics? Coins?

Sideshow engages in this market and they reap the benefits of being a collectible. So to play in the game and enjoy the rewards, you have to man up to the reprocautions. And in this case that means recasts and fakes. So whether or not you believe they are responsible for helping to protect their customers, is a personal opinion. I'm just expressing mine.

Exactly!! YOU have to man up to the repercussions of purchasing from complete strangers. Like i said before, if you want 100% fool proof way to get an authentic product, BUY DIRECT FROM SIDESHOW or any authenticated dealers ONLY!! What is so hard about that to accept?

Do you also expect the columbian cartel to personally guarantee that the cocaine that you buy is in pure form and not diluted and chopped up when you buy from the local drug dealer?

 

[emceerice]

Doesn't hold water? I don't see the point you are trying to make with this statement.
It seems that you want Sideshow to hold your hand and take too much responsibility for YOUR actions. Not to mention, Sideshow doesn't make one cent by you purchasing an Iron Man Comiquette from Joe Schmoe on Ebay for triple or quadruple the MSRP.

Not trying to argue with you bro...like I tried to say in my last post, its my opinion. But I'll defend myself anyway I'm not asking to have my hand held. True, SS does not get a penny of that 4x price the IM Com will fetch on ebay. But are they are not in the scalping business, they are in the retail business. The notion that you the purchaser of a ss product can potentially do this is incentive to buy their stuff. That is reason and benefit enough for them. They dont need a commission on the scalpage.

I'd like to know of any other collectible type and company that would go through such lengths to ensure that you buy an authentic product when you're purchasing it from complete strangers online? Baseball cards? Comics? Coins?

All those examples you gave do exactly what I mentioned...you'll get some sort of COA/Cert/Etc. Yes like you said, it'll cost the faker a penny to replicate, but thats not the point.

Exactly!! YOU have to man up to the repercussions of purchasing from complete strangers. Like i said before, if you want 100% fool proof way to get an authentic product, BUY DIRECT FROM SIDESHOW or any authenticated dealers ONLY!! What is so hard about that to accept?

Do you also expect the columbian cartel to personally guarantee that the cocaine that you buy is in pure form and not diluted and chopped up when you buy from the local drug dealer?

And when i said "you", i was referring to SS As in, if they chose to play in the game of making and selling collectibles (which they get the "collectibleness" factor for free, ie. selling points for their stuff), they should consider reprocautions to the customer.

ANYWAYS...lol. I think this horse is dead...lets stop beating on it. I'm just coming from it from a new SS collector's point of view and obviously dont have the experience you guys have. This isn't my first hobby, as I've had many which have fakes....just always irks me when it comes up. It sucks because it make the barrier to entry in the game higher and all I want is for more people to find this awesome hobby that I now call an addiction.

/rant

truce!

 

[Eternal_D]

lol you must be new to this hobby?

I think you are overlooking the meaning and importance of something being "limited". Who gives a flying ^^^^ about first release, second release, one hundredth release.....theyre all going to be the SAME product.

If these statues and items were NOT limited, no one would be paying hundreds of dollars for them. The price point of these includes the fact that these are "limited" to protect your investment as once it is sold out, it is gone forever unless you can get one from someone who has it.

Your "good business" theory shows that you know nothing about business in the high end collectible world.

This is why I got out of collecting toys. reissue after reissue...I dont' feel the urge to own it anymore...because 5 years later, I can buy it again and most likely at a discount.

just catching up on the latest of this thread, but if you've been a member on this site for more than a few months and into Marvel, and you haven't heard about the several marvel fakes, you probably don't read the boards often enough or aren't paying attention.

No offense, but now more than ever before, I wouldn't even consider buying any of the pieces that have been recasted. Unfortunate, but its true.

I guess not buying second hand is the easiest solution...but for those of us who came in late in the game, and would love to own the things we missed out on, it sucks. but I will definitely think twice before purchasing the Iron Man comiquette...which I would like to have in my collection one day...as long as it's authentic.

Doesn't hold water? I don't see the point you are trying to make with this statement.
It seems that you want Sideshow to hold your hand and take too much responsibility for YOUR actions. Not to mention, Sideshow doesn't make one cent by you purchasing an Iron Man Comiquette from Joe Schmoe on Ebay for triple or quadruple the MSRP.

I'd like to know of any other collectible type and company that would go through such lengths to ensure that you buy an authentic product when you're purchasing it from complete strangers online? Baseball cards? Comics? Coins?



Exactly!! YOU have to man up to the repercussions of purchasing from complete strangers. Like i said before, if you want 100% fool proof way to get an authentic product, BUY DIRECT FROM SIDESHOW or any authenticated dealers ONLY!! What is so hard about that to accept?

Do you also expect the columbian cartel to personally guarantee that the cocaine that you buy is in pure form and not diluted and chopped up when you buy from the local drug dealer?

I believe Cartier has a service where you can send their items in to be authenticated. I definitely do buy all my things from SS now or authorized dealers, but again, we are talking about pieces the newer collectors miss out on.


I don't think theres an easy or cheap solution to this problem. for now, the only thing I can do is just not buy those pieces that have been recasted. Making PF's is not a surefire way of stopping recasters either...i mean, you really dont' think they can sew some tiny pants on a statue? Do you know where most of your clothes are made? I can foresee PF's being replicated in the future as well...

 

[siren3-4]

Not trying to argue with you bro...like I tried to say in my last post, its my opinion. But I'll defend myself anyway I'm not asking to have my hand held. True, SS does not get a penny of that 4x price the IM Com will fetch on ebay. But are they are not in the scalping business, they are in the retail business. The notion that you the purchaser of a ss product can potentially do this is incentive to buy their stuff. That is reason and benefit enough for them. They dont need a commission on the scalpage.



All those examples you gave do exactly what I mentioned...you'll get some sort of COA/Cert/Etc. Yes like you said, it'll cost the faker a penny to replicate, but thats not the point.



And when i said "you", i was referring to SS As in, if they chose to play in the game of making and selling collectibles (which they get the "collectibleness" factor for free, ie. selling points for their stuff), they should consider reprocautions to the customer.

ANYWAYS...lol. I think this horse is dead...lets stop beating on it. I'm just coming from it from a new SS collector's point of view and obviously dont have the experience you guys have. This isn't my first hobby, as I've had many which have fakes....just always irks me when it comes up. It sucks because it make the barrier to entry in the game higher and all I want is for more people to find this awesome hobby that I now call an addiction.

/rant

truce!

Just to be fair to Sideshow . . . They were more than helpful when I ended up with a recast Hulk vs Spidey with helping to prove it was a recast and helping me get my money back from the seller.

I was able to supply them with names and addresses of the recasters. Shortly thereafter they started a page on the sideshow site that listed some of the known ebay recast sellers and had links to report fakes to them.

 

[MinMay]

Why do people buy fake stuff, knowing they are not real in the first place? It's like buying a $25 Rolex watch....just embarrassing.

 

[jbinny]

Why do people buy fake stuff, knowing they are not real in the first place? It's like buying a $25 Rolex watch....just embarrassing.

*quickly removes $25 Rolex*

 

[spartan]

WHAT?! ANOTHER RECASTER?!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[thenammagazine]

I think SS is doing everything they can. Dont forget these are $300 statues not $25,000 vehicles that have to be registered in case of injuring someone or property etc.

About the holograms and COAs, those would be a nice touch but nothing more than a false sense of security. Holograms are replicated easily as well as COA which is just a piece of paper or cardboard with printing on it. These can be replicated for pennies in asia. Just go to a local flea market and see all the knock off Nike, Addidas, and other sports products that have the same embroidered symbols and even the tags with holograms etc. Or better yet, go check on ebay, theyre a dime a dozen.

The best thing you, me, (we), can do is to be EDUCATED buyers and not support this kind of activity and production of licensed product.

Nothing's perfect. Isn't/wasn't North Korea attempting to forge our unforgable currency? While COAs aren't a guaranteed method, it's one more migraine that recasters would have to deal with to pimp a copied piece. Gentle Giant's been doing this for years. I don't think it's a very expensive step for Sideshow to take and while it won't stop them (nothing will, short of bribing the provincial police to continually raid their facilities), it'll be a little extra step.

 

[nash]

Nothing's perfect. Isn't/wasn't North Korea attempting to forge our unforgable currency? While COAs aren't a guaranteed method, it's one more migraine that recasters would have to deal with to pimp a copied piece. Gentle Giant's been doing this for years. I don't think it's a very expensive step for Sideshow to take and while it won't stop them (nothing will, short of bribing the provincial police to continually raid their facilities), it'll be a little extra step.

Who said our currency was unforgeable? how many times in the past year has the designs of our currency changed?

It's like anything else, if someone wants to forge or steal it badly, they will find a way. Even if these Sideshow statues came with COAs, would you feel better about it when they were eventually forged as well?

The fact is, these are a couple hundred dollar mass produced statues, not multi-thousand dollar ones. Comparing these to Cartier or vehicles is just silly. No matter how much you value these collectibles, they do not warrant such stringent security measures as a designer watch would, or aircraft, or vehicle, etc.

 

[jbinny]

I'm really tempted to post up their names/addresses both in Singapoo and in the states just to see what happens.

 

[Mesa]

I'm really tempted to post up their names/addresses both in Singapoo and in the states just to see what happens.

it will get removed very quickly. Just send it on to sideshow.

 

[BXCOLLECTOR]

DAMN more fake statues

 

[metaphorge]

Why doesnt SS license someone to keep casting their stuff? Once a statue sells out SS makes no more money on the product, ever. They are done. Sounds like a business opportunity is being lost here and it obviously is because recasts keep getting made and sold at insane prices.
You would of course have to wait say 4-5 years before you recast anything to let the market clear out. SS could license the product and take a percentage of each unit sold. Now SS would be still making money from long retired pieces. People who missed out would have a shot at a legitimate piece and the recast market would shrink a little bit.
Yes I know there would be rights issues from the companies issuing likenessess and things like that but that could all be built into the second release price.

It would still eat into the initial sales quite a bit, though... I'd imagine a large part of what drives pieces to sell out in the first place is speculation on future increases in value and/or of difficulty in getting one later.

I'm with you in theory, as I dislike having to take future scarcity into account when prioritizing my purchases, but insuring artificial scarcity and making sure demand slightly exceeds supply are part of the bedrock of the collectibles industry.