PT Changing How You View The OT

[Wor-Gar]

True... Really Ep 1 should have been a combination of 1 & 2. Episode 2 should have been a combination of 2 & 3. And Episode 3 should have been a combination of 3 & Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader.

That would be interesting. Like maybe Episode 2 ends with the destruction of the Jedi and them being forced to retreat. Then Episode 3 could have been about the rise of the rebel forces and the Jedi's final attempt to regain order against Palpatine... culminating in Anakin and Obi-Wan's final duel... and of course the rise of Vader.

Unless you meant add more suitted Vader into Episode 3. I'd love to see more Vader, but I do see the logic in ending the PT when Vader is created. If the PT is Anakin's story, then certainly the dramatic finale must be his incarceration in "the suit".

 

[pixletwin]

...The whole Jedi "Let's Ignore Human Bondage in the Outer Rim" is one of the ONLY things about the PT storyline I can never seem to manage a good rationalization for.....

-Adam

Thats an easy one. The Jedi were just as bloated and self serving as the Senate and not much different than the Sith. Hence the need to wipe out both Jedi and Sith to bring balance to the force.

Get yer geek on.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

The Jedi Order really does come off badly in the PT. They're so completely oblivious to what's going on around them that it makes them look incompetent.

 

[Atom Hues]

Yeah and Chewbacca meeting Yoda. I totally reject it.

It's Star Wars inbreeding.

It DOES make the universe feel really, really SMALL, doesn't it?

"A long time ago, in an apartment building far, far away..."

 

[EVILFACE]

So you're saying that yonu don't beleive in the concept of redemtion?

Throwing some old man down a shaft does't change the fact that the guy slaughtered a room full of kids.

That is like letting some guy that killed several people out of jail because he found Jesus.


The kicker at the end though, did Anakin's ghost have robot limbs? He did lose the arm before becoming Vader.

 

[pixletwin]

Throwing some old man down a shaft does't change the fact that the guy slaughtered a room full of kids.

That is like letting some guy that killed several people out of jail because he found Jesus.


The kicker at the end though, did Anakin's ghost have robot limbs? He did lose the arm before becoming Vader.

The kids were enemy combatants.

Anakin's ghost is not a reflection of the Jedi he was at a specific time, it was a reflection of the Jedi he had become and (I believe) a projection of how Luke wished to view him, rather than how his ghost actually looked.

and no, he didn't have his robotic limb as a ghost.

trouble maker.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Interesting note pertaining to the question at hand...

A friend of mine's 6 year old son is a huge Star Wars fan, apparently he watches them all on rotation, morning, noon and night... and his favorite, even at his age, is Empire Strikes Back.

What does that tell ya?

 

[pixletwin]

Interesting note pertaining to the question at hand...

A friend of mine's 6 year old son is a huge Star Wars fan, apparently he watches them all on rotation, morning, noon and night... and his favorite, even at his age, is Empire Strikes Back.

What does that tell ya?

That he watches too much TV?

 

[Wor-Gar]

That he watches too much TV?

Yep, that's pretty much what I meant.

Of course, we as adults know better. We're online here... morning, noon and night.

 

[Prime Clone]

I think it's unfair how all the prequels get lumped in together as being substandard. Sure, TPM was a disappointment, but AOTC was better, and ROTS was up there with the OT in my opinion.

 

[pixletwin]

Yep, that's pretty much what I meant.

Of course, we as adults know better. We're online here... morning, noon and night.

"Do as I say son, not as I do."

 

[DarkArtist81]

you know... that comic thing with vader and threepio actually kind of works (I'm a sentimental fool)

I agree with most of what's been said in this thread.... watching the PT definitely adds to the OT when watching again.

As for creating a strong connection between both sets of films, and making the OT seem stronger somehow.... i just LOVE this video, I found it online ages ago, can't even remember where... but I uploaded it to youtube just so I could show it to you lot (re-edited to make the fight snappier.... more energetic... using the music "battle of the heroes" it really reminds you of the fight in Ep. III.... and the fact that it's Anakin inside that suit.)

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Great video Darren!! That music works perfectly there, really heightens the emotion in the scene. Makes me wonder what they have in store once they make the huge 1-6 DVD set eventually. I really like that.

And to touch on what is being commented here, I have to agree that several things in the PT bothered me. Jar Jar was hard to deal with for sure, but not as bad as some have said. Midiclorians were a dumb idea to me, trying to give scientific facts to support the idea of the Force...

The Jedi not doing a damn thing to stop the slavery trade on Tattooine just show how singleminded they were during that time, concentrating only on what missions the council deemed "necessary". I think it shows the weakness of the Order and why they were destined to fall. It's a similar fate that the Order is facing once again in the Legacy of the Force books that recently have been coming out.

The idea that Jedi should align themselves with a particular government or let a ruling council decide what they should and shouldn't do... it's a path that always leads to pain and the decimation of the Order itself.

But all in all, the PT only strengthened the OT IMO. A lot of scenes are given more meaning and deeper emotion. I'm happy with the saga as a whole, even if parts of TPM and AOTC sometimes make me roll my eyes.

 

[Captain Faramir]

I think the music works pretty well; if it was edited a little better it would have been great! Though I don't like having Vader speak to Luke; it needs Obi-Wan calling to him. Otherwise it's pretty cool.

 

[Agent0028]

I disagree about the PT undoing all the big surprises in ESB. I saw Star Wars for the first time when I was in 8th grade during the special editions being released to theaters. I already knew all the stuff that were big revelations in 80. I would imagine the same would be said for anyone who sees ESB now, even if they haven't seen the PT.

BTW if you ever read the Republic Commando novels by Karen Traviss the Jedi really look bad.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It's probably difficult for anyone who didn't see ESB in theaters back in 1980 to conceptualize the impact that moment had back then... that Vader WAS Luke's father. The silence in the theater was deafening.

That said, unless you watch the SW 6 in the order they were released, the impact is very different. Some things lost, some things gained. The entire Vader figure is viewed differently if you watch the episodes in chronological order. He's now seen as a tragic figure with a lot of background. When I saw it, he was just a great villain with a great voice and presence, then slowly they rounded him out with a little more depth.

I wish I could have a moment of amnesia just to watch the films in the new order and see what that really does to the impact overall.

 

[Agent0028]

I wish I could have a moment of amnesia just to watch the films in the new order and see what that really does to the impact overall.

Yeah I would love ot be able to do that too. Actually I would like to have it twice, once to watch the OT the same way people did in 77, 80, and 83. And then again to see the PT then OT.

 

[Atom Hues]

Interesting note pertaining to the question at hand...

A friend of mine's 6 year old son is a huge Star Wars fan, apparently he watches them all on rotation, morning, noon and night... and his favorite, even at his age, is Empire Strikes Back.

What does that tell ya?

I've got to add.... a buddy of mine showed all the SW films to his 7 year-old. When his son asks to watch one of the OT, he says "Can I watch one of the plain STAR WARS, daddy?"

Kids today!

-Adam

 

[Atom Hues]

I disagree about the PT undoing all the big surprises in ESB. I saw Star Wars for the first time when I was in 8th grade during the special editions being released to theaters. I already knew all the stuff that were big revelations in 80. I would imagine the same would be said for anyone who sees ESB now, even if they haven't seen the PT.

BTW if you ever read the Republic Commando novels by Karen Traviss the Jedi really look bad.

I have to agree with Wor-Gar. You're totally free to disagree, but those of us who spent 3 years from 77 to 80 thinking Darth Vader was the bad guy who killed Luke's father, and then Vader telling Luke the truth, it was a stunning moment, a genuine watershed moment in cinema. I really can't fathom going into EMPIRE the first time knowing Vader is Luke's father, Leia is Luke's sister, and it having anywhere near the same impact.

Also, the structure of EMPIRE's narrative is hinged upon these big, revelatory scenes. All I'm saying is, these scenes don't have the same impact if the first time you experience them, you already know what the deal is.

 

[pixletwin]

Man, I wish I could en capsulize the feeling in the theater when I saw ROTJ for the first time in 83. The moment that Vader picked up the Emperor with the Skywalker theme playing sent electricity through the whole room (no pun intended). People were jumping on their chairs and weeping. It was absolutely incomparable to anything I have ever witnessed.

 

[Atom Hues]

The Jedi not doing a damn thing to stop the slavery trade on Tattooine just show how singleminded they were during that time, concentrating only on what missions the council deemed "necessary". I think it shows the weakness of the Order and why they were destined to fall. It's a similar fate that the Order is facing once again in the Legacy of the Force books that recently have been coming out.

The thing is, I don't think it's an intentional thing, a well-crafted story element. I think the whole slavery thing was written for Ep 1, then quickly forgotten.

It's one thing for the Jedi Knights to have become a bloated political entity that might ignore the plight of a few slaves in the Outer Rim, but who are the heroes/protagonists of the PT? Obi-Wan, Anakin, and Padme. How are we supposed to get involved with these characters & care about their fates if they are the type of people who would intentionally ignore the plight of slaves?

I think it was just a matter of some dramatic debt that was incurred in Ep 1, and Lucas & Co. didn't deem it necessary to address it in later episodes. That's an easier explanation for me to swallow than:
1. The wise & kind Obi-Wan Kenobi decides to ignore people in need
2. The noble & politically active Padme to ignore slavery, especially when her own people suffered a military occupation and she was willing to die to fight that
3. Anakin, whose entire PT character arc is based upon the fact that he loves his loved ones too much, is willing to ignore his mother's slavery for a decade.

The STAR WARS universe isn't dramatically water-tight. Even within the OT, there are plot holes and character aberrations that stem from 11th hour story changes and plot overhauls. As fans, our first course is to come up with rationalizations to caulk up the plot holes.

My point was, the main characters of the PT (not the Jedi council, but the heroes) ignoring slavery is something that even I, a STAR WARS loyalista, have a hard time concocting a good excuse for.

That's all!

-Adam