P.O.S. Re-Caster *Please Read*

[Agent47]

Hey guys,

As you all know artists in this section of the boards put a significant amount of time and money into producing very limited editions of figures, clothing and sculptures that, for many reasons, are not and likely will not ever be available elsewhere. Doing so allows us to create pieces of art that are interpretations of figures from the collective popular culture consciousness, and this has become sort of an essential part of the hobby. Because of this many of us on here support those artists generously and work together at a very high level to create these pieces.

Unfortunately, some people see this as an opportunity to profit and steal from those who have dedicated their time and money to make these limited edition pieces of art. As you may know, myself and a couple of other artists teamed up to put out a limited run of a certain pop culture figure not too long ago. The edition was limited, and those who got in on it got a very limited and exclusive edition of a pop culture icon.

Recently, an individual put a couple re-casted sculpts of this figure up on eBay. I am 90% certain I know who this individual is, and if I am right this person not only did not pay for this sculpt but was also compensated to paint it for another board member. This individual then re-casted the sculpt while it was in his possession and gave it to someone else to sell for them with the sole intention of profiting from other peoples' time, work and money.

I included links to the auctions below. Do what you may. Right now, just like the rest of the artists on this board, I look forward to putting out better and higher quality pieces for this community and working with professional artists who do this for their livelihood. But thieves like this not only cheapen those limited edition pieces but also say "F you" to all those artists and the people who make this section possible.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290522382806#ht_500wt_1156

https://cgi.ebay.com/1-6th-Custom-A...ultDomain_0&hash=item43a47bb62b#ht_500wt_1156

Thank you all for your time,

D

 

[The Craw]

i'm more concerned about artists who take your hard earned money for repaints or commissioned sculpts and you never see them again. that seems to happen a lot more around here.

 

[karamazov80]

Do what you may.

What could folks do about this? It is a recast of an unlicensed custom, right? Not sure if there is anything you could do to get the auction pulled. But then, maybe there is?

 

[Devil_666]

Let me guess.. the figure you released was unlicensed, right?

Which means YOU sold them "with the sole intention of profiting from other peoples' time, work and money" since other people created that character and his likeness, other people OWN the rights to that characters likeness and design and instead of them making money off of their creation, YOU and your buddies made money instead.

That's a big "F you" to all those people. They spent their time creating something for you to reference and reproduce in another medium and they got absolutely nothing. While you and your buddies got money.

And now you're complaining about someone "getting over" when you essentially did the same thing by making an unauthorized and unlicensed figure!?

 

[karamazov80]

Also, if it was a limited run, then the sculptor isn't losing money on these new ones, right? So it seems that the only ones who really "suffer" are those that wanted extremely rare, limited edition customs, correct?

I'm not taking a confrontational stance here (I actually dig lots of custom sculpts, and there are some I would like to have), but I'm not sure how the creators really suffer so much in this specific instance, if what you say is true about there being a very limited number of these produced. In other cases, this would be more of a concern for these customizers.

 

[Agent47]

Good point. Stealing is stealing. So I guess it's ok to do this, then. Good to know.

 

[EVILFACE]

Spill the beans, who do you think it is?

 

[Agent47]

Also, if it was a limited run, then the sculptor isn't losing money on these new ones, right? So it seems that the only ones who really "suffer" are those that wanted extremely rare, limited edition customs, correct?

Them and the person who commissioned it to be sculpted. But Devil_666 is right. According to him it's ok to take every sculpt that someone puts out on this board and recast it and sell it on eBay. And he feels ok with buying those sculpts here and then turning around and condemning the people who make them. And you call me a hypocrite. I apologize for posting, buddy. You're right. I'm wrong.

 

[Star Puffs]

That's a big "F you" to all those people.

Oh my, what an indescribable affront. *flutter* Your absurd posturing would have merit if even a single 1:6 sculptor had been sued by a celebrity or rights holder. Assuming such art is even a rights violation, it is obviously viewed as an utterly trivial issue.

They spent their time creating something for you to reference and reproduce in another medium and they got absolutely nothing.

Oh yeah except for the money they made making the original product, which is what they care about as evidenced by when they choose to enforce licences.

And now you're complaining about someone "getting over" when you essentially did the same thing by making an unauthorized and unlicensed figure!?

They are not essentially the same thing. I realise being a demeaning _______ is your modus operandi, but I'd like to see you produce a sculpt that resembles anything more than a piece of ____.

The artists here create original works of art based on an existing concept. Recasters are creating nothing and simply directly copying an artist's work.

The artist here have given me numerous figures that would never otherwise be made, trev and Spenser get special mention. I can not say enough thank yous for their artistic effort and the enjoyment they bring me in this hobby.

 

[galactiboy]

Sadly this is part of our hobby... good chance you'll see the head mass produced by Diver64 before its all said and done.

And again (as in the previous thread like this) its true that unlicensed figures are ethically questionable (and I own this figure as well as a number of others), but there is no denying that an incredible amount of art and work go into figures like this and recasting and selling a custom head is really no different than doing it to a licensed one.

And as EF said, let us know who it is so we can shun them

 

[The Craw]

this same thing is what made Chris Howes start crying and then he took his ball and went home. (* the "ball" in this case was thousands of our dollars*)

 

[Agent47]

I think I said the first time I started a thread on here that what's done here is a form of kitsch, art reproduced from other well-established works of art, pop culture reproductions. And it's not like I'm posting this somewhere where it's completely irrelevant, which is why I have trouble seeing how people can't see what I'm saying at all, even if you don't agree with me. This stuff is difficult. It takes a lot of work. And there's a definitive slant to it. It's not an exact copy and we don't make a million of them. Which is why it peeves me off to see someone do just that, and sell it on evilBay of all places. If anyone could do it they would. The rest do what this guy did.

I posted this thread because I was peeved and that's probably not the best time to do these types of things. I already regret it. Oh well, it's there now. Thanks, StarPuffs.

 

[Agent47]

this same thing is what made Chris Howes start crying and then he took his ball and went home. (* the "ball" in this case was thousands of our dollars*)

Yeah, and a chunk of that was mine. I know a lot of artists out there took money and absconded with it but you got to give props to the ones who came through. Doesn't mean we're all bad.

 

[Devil_666]

Oh my, what an indescribable affront. *flutter* Your absurd posturing would have merit if even a single 1:6 sculptor had been sued by a celebrity or rights holder. Assuming such art is even a rights violation, it is obviously viewed as an utterly trivial issue.

Wanna know what else is an "utterly trivial issue"? Customizers complaining about recasters.

Oh yeah except for the money they made making the original product, which is what they care about as evidenced by when they choose to enforce licences.

If they only cared about that, there would be absolutely no reason for any of them to copyright/trademark their stuff. But they do. And that's to protect their intellectual property from people (who didn't help create it) from profiting off it.

I'd like to see you produce a sculpt that resembles anything more than a piece of ____.

And I'd like to see all these customizers that complain about recasters actually create something (concept, design, everything) from scratch that was 100% original that sold as well and for as much as all the unlicensed and unauthorized stuff they routinely peddle on forums.

The artists here create original works of art based on an existing concept.

Re-read that, it makes no sense. How exactly is it "original" when it's based on an existing concept!?

Recasters are creating nothing and simply directly copying an artist's work.

Which is no different than a customizer directly copying an existing design that was created by someone else. Do they make the items from scratch? Some do. Some customize existing figures and add new parts. Some resculpt exisiting sculpts. But all that "work" is derived from ideas they had no part in creating.

The artist here have given me numerous figures that would never otherwise be made, trev and Spenser get special mention. I can not say enough thank yous for their artistic effort and the enjoyment they bring me in this hobby.

I have nothing against customizers and the items they offer. And I routinely compliment them for stuff I think looks cool. But that has nothing to do with the hypocrisy of someone making something illegally and then complaining when their unauthorized and unlicensed products get bootlegged as well.

 

[Agent47]

Sadly this is part of our hobby... good chance you'll see the head mass produced by Diver64 before its all said and done.

And again (as in the previous thread like this) its true that unlicensed figures are ethically questionable (and I own this figure as well as a number of others), but there is no denying that an incredible amount of art and work go into figures like this and recasting and selling a custom head is really no different than doing it to a licensed one.

And as EF said, let us know who it is so we can shun them

Not gonna do it. Won't stoop to it. But I will say that I don't think one is as bad as the other. I concede making a copy of an unlicensed product is not as bad as making one of a licensed one. I posted this because I was peeved, but it also makes me a hypocrite: stealing is stealing. So I don't really have a right to complain. Like I said, regret it already. But I will defend it to an extant.

 

[Agent47]

Wanna know what else is an "utterly trivial issue"? Customizers complaining about recasters.



If they only cared about that, there would be absolutely no reason for any of them to copyright/trademark their stuff. But they do. And that's to protect their intellectual property from people (who didn't help create it) from profiting off it.



And I'd like to see all these customizers that complain about recasters actually create something (concept, design, everything) from scratch that was 100% original that sold as well and for as much as all the unlicensed and unauthorized stuff they routinely peddle on forums.



Re-read that, it makes no sense. How exactly is it "original" when it's based on an existing concept!?



Which is no different than a customizer directly copying an existing design that was created by someone else. Do they make the items from scratch? Some do. Some customize existing figures and add new parts. Some resculpt exisiting sculpts. But all that "work" is derived from ideas they had no part in creating.



I have nothing against customizers and the items they offer. And I routinely compliment them for stuff I think looks cool. But that has nothing to do with the hypocrisy of someone making something illegally and then complaining when their unauthorized and unlicensed products get bootlegged as well.

You're making an argument about kitsch vs. art. The reason people on here make what they do is because this is a website dedicated to pop culture collectibles. The art part comes in during the execution. It's their interpretation of it, their fingerprint. Where do you think you are?

Ugh. Sorry I even started this thread. So over it at this point.

 

[Mesa]

Spill the beans, who do you think it is?

Who is this low life piece of scum that should be shunned? and I agree and see your point C.H.

 

[Cheungkinmen]

"Art is not about thinking something up. It is the opposite -- getting something down."
Julia Cameron

 

[Star Puffs]

Wanna know what else is an "utterly trivial issue"? Customizers complaining about recasters.

I realise you are probably not capable of thinking about this issue beyond your simplistic posturing, but you could at least try to grasp that the income from custom sculpts may actually be a significant portion of an independent artist's income. So a recaster might actually affect someone's livelihood.

Which is no different than a customizer directly copying an existing design that was created by someone else.

Since most sculpts are simply of a person's head, of a person no less that has voluntarily pursued a career that exposes their likeness to the general public, I think your focus of "design" and "ideas" is laughable.

How exactly is it "original" when it's based on an existing concept!?

But all that "work" is derived from ideas they had no part in creating.

Please Mr. Righteous post a piece of art you have created that demonstrates the time and skill of sculpting a lifelike head. Until then you are a clown trying to repeat "unauthorized and unlicensed" as a substitute for really thinking about the issue.

 

[siquisiri]

I dont know why some peeps are getting so upset. If we all had to wait for a company to pay licensing fees in order to obtain a figure, wed all have only a handfull of figures on our shelves.
IM glad that people such as CH take the intiative to put together these type of comissions becasue they provide us with figures most of the large companies wouldnt produce.
ALL companies copy and no one has an original idea. Companies and customizers such as Brothers Production, DID, Dragon,Rainman, etc.. ALL never pay licencing fees for their sculpts looking like certain famous individuals yet we all buy their prodcuts and get upset when recasters reproduce theyre sculpts. CH being upset about a recaster selling a cast of a figure he was involved in producing is the same case. That a license wasnt paid and that the idea of the figure was not an original idea is irrelevant. A great effort and time was put into producing this figure. A recast of another artists work, whether original or not, or with or without license, is simply wrong.