Marvel's Wanda Vision

[Victοr]

She married a walking vibrator and had two made-up kids. She then tortured an entire town to keep those things and by the time it was all over, she wasn't even sorry. She gets no sympahy from me. And I'm the guy who's always preferred the villain. She's just so... banal and empty in her villainy. So mundane and self-centered, that I can't get behind her the way I could do so with someone on an ideological crusade. Zemo was right.

PS: Fakesilver could've at least been revealed as Wonder Man or Master Pandemonium, both being actors and tied with the story, but nope, we got a **** joke instead. A **** joke. Jesus...

 

[ironwez20]

*Any* aspect? They?re literally producing Deadpool 3.
I hate this hyperbole. Marvel has a right to build their mutant universe from the ground up, but there?s no reason they can?t cherry pick what worked best from the earlier franchise. Nobody complained about JK Simmons coming back as Jameson, and it seems like a vocal number of fans much prefer Evan Peters? Quicksilver to the MCU?s, and would have been happy with him sticking around in some capacity.

Who wouldn?t want to see Fassbender back as a rebooted Magneto? Give him the long white hair and update his backstory, and audiences would accept it.

I?d much prefer Evan peters quicksilver. Idk what they?ll do with magneto but I rather have freakin him than the dude who died easily and is sorta bland .

The Fox verse had its faults but it had strong points to . I?m just still in awe that they really ****ed fans over on the multiverse again with that Evan peters cameo. Wtf even was the point? I can?t believe we have people going around saying this was perfect storytelling.

 

[a-dev]

She also saved those soldiers that Agatha lifted high into the air and was in the process of slamming back to Earth - hardly the act of someone who was turning into a full-blown villain. And when confronted with the true nature of the cruelty she'd inflicted on the Westwiew residents, she did the right thing and let them out of the Hex. Prior to that she didn't allow herself to become aware of their suffering because it was rooted in a reality where her idyllic life with Vision couldn't exist. IMO she didn't "look" remorseful in the final act simply because those residents now viewed her with utter contempt and were not in a forgiving mood. At that point it was obvious that any attempt to apologize would have come off as hollow, so she kept her head down and got out of Dodge. Not that anyone could have stopped her.

She choked them first. Her reaction wasn't to help or protect them but to punish them. Fortunately she still had a shred of humanity left, and started to spare them (but prevented them from leaving when she saw Vision and her imaginary kids suffering, and decided to put the hex back up to keep them trapped.) Wanda will save the citizens when its convenient and appropriate timing for her. Hardly heroic.

In the end, they were too afraid to approach her. Sort of like a Injustice Superman, Wanda is not going to turn herself in for a crime, she would need the Avengers now to show up and do that (or Strange.) But as we see at the very end, she hasn't learned a lesson, if anything she is digging deeper into black magic, which always has a bitter cost, to get what she wants. It is selfish.

I mean Thanos also had moments of decency and sparing people in IW. He could have broken his bargain with Strange, or outright killed people, but he also spared people when he thought it was appropriate.

My point is being a villain is not the black/white universe of morality of tradition. Wanda can be a villain that shows mercy, understanding and even love.

A well written villain always sees themselves as doing the right thing, the problem is they have a selfish bias and blindness, that makes their solutions harmful to those around them. Thanos, Killmonger and even Wanda can all fall into this bucket.

The first question you need to ask yourself is Wanda using her powers to help people, or to use for selfish ambitions.

I didn't see the choking as punishing them but more the result of a reflex reaction to feeling overwhelmed by all of their grief/anger converging on her at once. And their not escaping when she then lifted the Hex wasn't due to her purposely preventing their departure but rather as a consequence of her saving her family. So she wasn't quite ready for her fantasy family to disintegrate before her very eyes - The Westview folks had survived their "torture" for what, 8-1/2 episodes? Another 20 minutes wasn't going to hurt them (especially anyone with a Westview Therapy practice - ha!). And I never said she was heroic, I said she wasn't a full-on villain. Not the same thing!

At the end she also told Monica that she didn't fully understand the power inside her but intended to figure it out. And while the Darkhold is a source of black magic it also holds the prophecies about The Scarlet Witch, so citing her studying it as proof she hasn't learned her lesson may be off-base, as it may be the necessary evil she needs to understand who & what she truly is.

I mean geez. 20 days or 20 minutes, I am just going to say locking children up in their basement and feeding them nightmare visions smells like bulletin board super-villain material. Even if you want to argue she wasn't fully aware of that (debatable), when she did find out, she should have stopped everything right then and there. But her argument was NOT that she didn't know, but she argued that their lives are better now that they were under her totalitarian heal is was her explanation. 'Your all fine, I have kept you safe in here, your at peace.' To Wanda, people having free-will is liability.

Vision is obviously heroic. The whole time he could not hide from the truth, his only motive being to put the people above his own needs at all times. Even his family was expandable to protect the people, he never hesitated.

I get it, its a TV show. Maybe she isn't a full on classic Villain. But we are getting to the point, perhaps rightly so, that we can't call anybody a villain.

If that is the case, I can see that argument. Thanos, Killmonger and Wanda are not 'full' villains, but sympathetic figures who we might say are misguided by their personal struggles and experiences. I don't know what you call that exactly. I guess super-villain with a good backstory and character development is what I would normally call it, but that might be inaccurate in modern times.

Well, here was Jye's question

Here let me prove just how much of a failure this finale was

Answer this with certainty using the available evidence.

Is Wanda a villain or not

So we can't answer with certainty - or at least there is split opinion on the matter. I don't see why that should mean the storytelling was a failure - it sparked an interesting conversation. That's a good thing surely.

The Quicksilver thing is the only real disappointment out of all this as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Khev]

I don't think Wanda was presented as a villain. Yes the best villains have layers and even aspects that can make them sympathetic but the flip side of that is well developed heroes who are deeply flawed and capable of catastrophic mistakes. Was Tony Stark a villain for creating Ultron? I don't think so and that led to innocents actually dying compared to the events of Wandavision which killed no one (good or evil.)

Yes in one sense she seemingly crossed over into Anakin Skywalker territory with exerting her power over others as a means of coping with her grief at losing a loved one. But it never really seemed to consume or taint her soul compared to Anakin, Thanos, or whomever. She was blinded by her grief and people suffered yes, but not because she was truly "bad" IMO.

I think the writers went out of their way to put an exclamation point on that notion when they had Monica say something to the effect of "if I were in your shoes and had your power I would have done the same."

 

[hellgrammite00]

I don't think Wanda was presented as a villain.

I mean the question to me isn't how it was presented, the question is was she actually a villain. And its not clear cut. Monica speech at the end was pretty bad, but along with Heyward got some of the worst writing of the show.

I think Wanda is the protagonist of the show for sure, but also somewhat a villain.

But you bring up a key point about TV writing.

There isn't a clear line, and I think that is intentional. I think some of it is complex and vague (how much does Wanda know....or care to remember) vs. Monica giving a very lame speech at the end like this is okay.

In the end it is very soap opera and similar to WWE writing even lol. In soap operas we see the wife's long lost friend who arrives and beats up the husband and kidnaps the sister. But after all these felonies we realize deep down he has a heart of gold with dashing good looks, and he becomes more of a rogue who challenges the norm.

I don't know, sometimes the Undertaker is the bad guy heel and sometimes he baby face. I think the show wants to mess with people's minds, because the majority view morality based on what people around them are saying (or what the TV characters are saying.)

The show knows people are going to wonder if Wanda is going to face justice for the crimes she committed, so we need the show to distract us by having Monica say Wanda should not be a criminal, but pitied. Then we can have her go right back to learning about black magic and hellfire. Keep people bouncing.

 

[chrisstbh]

Wanda was 100% the villain of this story, wether she meant it or not. She has taken absolutely no acountability for her actions, she only apologised to one person and that was the one she arguably improved by giving powers to. She's just selfish, in her mind it's all about her. She just flies off and goes and does whatever she wants to do. Just because she was the protagonist doesn't mean she wasn't also the villain.

Her punishment for Agatha wasn't something that a hero would do.

 

[jye4ever]

I?ve actually come around to appreciate PB trolling it is kind of funny that the person he always wanted to work opposite of was himself lol

But Wanda should have absolutely been painted as a villain and not Hayward because him lying to stop her was a necessary evil because not only had all of those people suffered thru the blip now one of the freaking Avengers shows up and puts them thru additional hell wtf!

Ok she lost a brother but what the hell because she falls in love with a freaking android others have to suffer now.

Gross find a real person you creepy woman lol

 

[The Buffinator]

BTW, there's a theory out there that Ralph Bohner is Peter Maximoff's Witness Protection name and it was just coincidence that Agatha chose him to be her Fietro. She assumed her spell gave him super speed, but he already was a Quicksilver. Hmmmm.....Ralph's/Fietro's character traits were pretty much identical to Peter's, plus his man cave seems like the kind of setup he'd ask for from the FBI. When Monica broke Agatha's spell over him, his saying "Please, spare my life!" didn't really prove anything one way or the other, did it? Granted it seems pretty thin/unlikely (& why exactly would he need to go into WP?), but it would be pretty hilarious if Marvel is actually giving us Evan Peters' QS, only we're too impatient (slow?) to let it play out.

Another possibility is his appearance in our reality was what actually caught Agatha's attention. Agatha was never all that truthful when talking to Wanda, so maybe she also lied about what attracted her to Westview? She's probably aware of the existence of Nexus beings, so maybe she somehow felt his crossing over and then tracked him and Jimmy to Westview in order to discover who brought him to our dimension and how. There was that one Nexus commercial after all...

 

[GaryPool]

Ohhhhhhhhh dear.

What a mess this show was, how it got such high ratings is beyond me. You introduce a Fox X-men character into the world and reduce them to being a Boner joke? Says it all really.

Can't wait for everyone who are sympathetic for heroes doing bad to people to jump on hating Wanda for literally imprisoning and ruining hundreds of people's lives and just owing an apology to Monica, what a steaming pile - she literally floats off into the sky like eh, not my problem! Not to mention we're supposed to hate and cheer for that director being arrested... for what? Trying to stop a deranged hero turned bad who has as good as killed a whole town? Pull the other one! The Accords were started for less, and yet this is just a meh, she was a bit upset about vision, whoopsie!

Terribly paced, terribly gimmicky, terrible CG, awful use of interesting plot elements and lived so far away from good sounding theories. It's a shame some very heart-felt and poignant moments between Wanda and Vision were in this otherwise pretty bad show, because they really stood out.

Marvel really are leaning into their own jar of farts at the moment with their interconnecting name dropping and making you need to watch one to understand what happens in the other - to the point their marketing now employs teasing and hype for potential in a show that never pays off. Complete disappointment, hope Falcon and Winter Soldier is better!

 

[Sassafras]

I think the show has low re-watchability. Maybe in a few years I watch it again.

But it became an average show, reminding me more of Thor the Dark World then the best of the MCU.

Feige played it way to safe with this show, and it will be quickly forgotten because of it.

Well, I need to watch it again to appreciate it, since I binged the whole thing 2 nights ago. Happily unspoiled, except sort of knowing it was gonna be trippy and weird.

IMO there was something fascinating but weirdly disturbing about the retro stuff. Am sure I missed a lot. Actors/actresses great.

Thought it was kinda depressing at the end, more than anything. Overall, Wanda as a character has been put through so much pain and loss, seems like she's barely hanging on to sanity, and now she's uber-powered; so no, I don't think she's a villain.

Also, IMO some of it was BS, like find it hard to believe the Avengers would let Vision end up in a lab to be dismantled WTF, or that someone wouldn't try to reach Bruce Banner or someone Wanda knew, like Falcon. The Quicksilver thing was BS - what is the problem with bringing the original actor back? And so White Vision just what - floated off someplace?

Kudos to the MCU for doing something different, and pulling it off pretty well, IMO. Maybe not perfect, but for me completely unexpected.

 

[Spartan Rex]

 

[Khev]

I mean the question to me isn't how it was presented, the question is was she actually a villain.

Ah, okay. Taking her actions and motives in and of themselves regardless of who we are "supposed" to care for and what lame speeches other supposed heroes make then yes her behavior was certainly villainous and even downright dastardly. Wasn't there some psycho evil kid in the Twilight Zone movie that basically did the same thing as her?

 

[ironwez20]

Ohhhhhhhhh dear.

What a mess this show was, how it got such high ratings is beyond me. You introduce a Fox X-men character into the world and reduce them to being a Boner joke? Says it all really.

Can't wait for everyone who are sympathetic for heroes doing bad to people to jump on hating Wanda for literally imprisoning and ruining hundreds of people's lives and just owing an apology to Monica, what a steaming pile - she literally floats off into the sky like eh, not my problem! Not to mention we're supposed to hate and cheer for that director being arrested... for what? Trying to stop a deranged hero turned bad who has as good as killed a whole town? Pull the other one! The Accords were started for less, and yet this is just a meh, she was a bit upset about vision, whoopsie!

Terribly paced, terribly gimmicky, terrible CG, awful use of interesting plot elements and lived so far away from good sounding theories. It's a shame some very heart-felt and poignant moments between Wanda and Vision were in this otherwise pretty bad show, because they really stood out.

Marvel really are leaning into their own jar of farts at the moment with their interconnecting name dropping and making you need to watch one to understand what happens in the other - to the point their marketing now employs teasing and hype for potential in a show that never pays off. Complete disappointment, hope Falcon and Winter Soldier is better!

Sadly you have idiots saying it?s perfect writing and it?s amazing finale . Dumbest thing I?ve heard . The chick lost her brother . Ok I understand. But she also lost vision. So what? Move on. You torture hundreds of people and then kinda just walk away at the end with your hood over your head cause you?re don?t want to face what you did.

Just an utter waste of time. Could care less about the theories. The show fell flat . But of course mcu stans on Twitter

Yasssssss queen!

 

[jodl73]

So there are people saying how Wanda was the villain because of her actions. While I did agree with this early on, that changed when we found out Agatha was controlling her. I think a number of you forget that.
Someone was wondering how this show got high ratings. Well if you are basing this show on the finale, I can understand that. I do agree the finale didn?t meet a lot of our expectations, the use of Quicksilver for example. I was expecting Ultron in White Vision and Dr. Strange appearance myself. However before the finale, we have to admit this is a heck of a show, and I know all of you were looking forward to the next episode every week. We are quick to turn on it because of one episode.
Someone also mentioned bad CGI? I?m not sure what to say to that. This is the same CGI you would see in the MCU films.

 

[chrisstbh]

So there are people saying how Wanda was the villain because of her actions. While I did agree with this early on, that changed when we found out Agatha was controlling her. I think a number of you forget that.
Someone was wondering how this show got high ratings. Well if you are basing this show on the finale, I can understand that. I do agree the finale didn?t meet a lot of our expectations, the use of Quicksilver for example. I was expecting Ultron in White Vision and Dr. Strange appearance myself. However before the finale, we have to admit this is a heck of a show, and I know all of you were looking forward to the next episode every week. We are quick to turn on it because of one episode.
Someone also mentioned bad CGI? I?m not sure what to say to that. This is the same CGI you would see in the MCU films.

Agatha wasn't controlling her for like 99% of this, it was all Wanda's doing. She created the hex, she made those people suffer, wether she meant it or not she still did it and hasn't accepted any consequences for it.

I'm surprised at the love for this show and the high ratings. The beginning was boring as hell, the middle was decent and the end was just rushed and fell flat. Sure the acting etc. was top notch but the pacing and sitcom theme just wasn't doing it for me.
The Halloween episode was the only one I actually thought was really good.

The CGI in the Vision vs Vision fight was pretty bad in a couple of spots, floaty motion, poor compositing, etc.

 

[Khev]

Agatha wasn't controlling her for like 99% of this, it was all Wanda's doing. She created the hex, she made those people suffer, wether she meant it or not she still did it and hasn't accepted any consequences for it.

Yeah. I mean heck even Thanos, misguided and crazy as he was still thought he was "saving" the universe. Wanda's actions were never intended to serve *anyone* but herself alone.

 

[Sassafras]

Sadly you have idiots saying it?s perfect writing and it?s amazing finale . Dumbest thing I?ve heard . The chick lost her brother . Ok I understand. But she also lost vision. So what? Move on. You torture hundreds of people and then kinda just walk away at the end with your hood over your head cause you?re don?t want to face what you did.

Just an utter waste of time. Could care less about the theories. The show fell flat . But of course mcu stans on Twitter

Yasssssss queen!

Well, I wouldn't say it was perfect writing; but I'd argue there's a lot more than losing both her brother and Vision. Like watching her parents drop into a hole, then making the effort to do right; but it goes wrong (CW). Tho by then she did have a support system of people who were "different".

And then she sacrifices everything; in theory for everyone ("the whole world dies") and kills the one she loves most; only to see him murdered in front of her; and then she's dusted.

I mean, she's not a PhD like Banner, who wrecks Harlem and has the intellectualism to somehow come to terms with being uber-powered; she was just a kid whose brain got all *&^% up from the Mind Stone. She's not Cap either; who comes from that patriotic WWII background when things were simpler. And she's not Thanos who isn't human to begin with. I took it that the character had a lot of denial; in theory the people in town were happy and protected.

And yeah, she walks away from what she did - because what else is there? The only way to fix it would be to mess with their heads some more - memory wipe. She's not Tony Stark with millions to throw at the problem. Just sayin'. As far as the writing goes, I guess the whole thing with the D+ series at the moment is that the THE TEAM and associates like Bucky are scattered and fragmented, trying to pick up the pieces after EG.

Hopefully Falcon and WS will flesh that out some more, 'coz realistically speaking find it hard to believe - if u are telling a story - that someone like Clint wouldn't have been called in to talk to Wanda. Guess they didn't want to pay the salary.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Watched the show weekly, and it disappointed weekly. Moving on to Bucky and Falcon.

 

[GaryPool]

Sadly you have idiots saying it?s perfect writing and it?s amazing finale . Dumbest thing I?ve heard . The chick lost her brother . Ok I understand. But she also lost vision. So what? Move on. You torture hundreds of people and then kinda just walk away at the end with your hood over your head cause you?re don?t want to face what you did.

Just an utter waste of time. Could care less about the theories. The show fell flat . But of course mcu stans on Twitter

Yasssssss queen!

I can't remember the exact line, but Wanda saying at the end that the people wouldn't understand or forgive her, so she's sorry to MONICA! Ha! Then fly off time, doesn't stick around to help out, doesn't stick around to make amends. And in reality, this event would cause a second accords act, it doesn't even make sense how she could willingly fly off and not be held accountable within its own universe.

I think Marvel has definitely gotten to the point where they can put out anything they want and it'll be eaten up.

I was a huge Marvel fan when I was younger, through the first phases - but both its own inward self-gratification and instantaneous praise that isn't deserved from critics and fans has soured me a bit. But this show has encapsulated exactly why I'm not just being bitter, but that it's becoming a pale shadow of what came before it.

 

[GaryPool]

So there are people saying how Wanda was the villain because of her actions. While I did agree with this early on, that changed when we found out Agatha was controlling her. I think a number of you forget that.
Someone was wondering how this show got high ratings. Well if you are basing this show on the finale, I can understand that. I do agree the finale didn?t meet a lot of our expectations, the use of Quicksilver for example. I was expecting Ultron in White Vision and Dr. Strange appearance myself. However before the finale, we have to admit this is a heck of a show, and I know all of you were looking forward to the next episode every week. We are quick to turn on it because of one episode.
Someone also mentioned bad CGI? I?m not sure what to say to that. This is the same CGI you would see in the MCU films.

Yeah that was me. I knew from the second episode it wouldn't be a good show - the pacing was completely off, and by the fourth episode the mystery schtick was stretched thin wherein each episode was hammering the same nail without anything else happening. Then accompany this with two awful "comedy" characters, Darcey being one of them whose whole sassy dialogue is science jargon and exposition galore, and then Monica's SHIELD levels of handling it really wasn't that great of a show. As I've said before, take away the glitz and gimmick of them acting in different styled eras there wasn't much plot nor intrigue.

When the cliffhanger episode introduced Fox Pietro the creators knew exactly what they were doing and needed to do - not to create an interesting scenario or plot thread or anything of worth, but to bolster what Marvel is great at atm which is to 'when in doubt'; cameo and name drop. But to seriously have that cliffhanger and plot thread reduced to a boner joke is astounding.

The show was at its strongest with Wandas and Visions heart to hearts, and the Visions' intellectual showdown, but the show around that was all over the place, as was the CGI. Wanda's old face de-ageing was horrendous, and the battle between Agatha and Wanda was just a red and purple sea of CG vortexes. I honestly didn't watch anything even bordering on how much praise the show has gotten.